Charlie Rose

robdverity  11/17/2009 04:35 PM Report

A former Marine captain who became the first foreign service official to publicly resign in protest over the war in Afghanistan says staying in the country is not in America's interest.

"The losses of our soldiers do not merit anything that comes in line with our strategic interests or values," Matthew Hoh, who signed on as a foreign service official in Afghanistan after fighting in Iraq, tells NPR's Melissa Block.

Hoh resigned last month after spending five working months in Afghanistan. In his resignation letter, he said he had "lost understanding of and confidence in the strategic purpose of the United States' presence in Afghanistan."

Hoh says he is more concerned about why the U.S. is in Afghanistan than debating Gen. Stanley McChrystal's views or those of others in Washington. McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, has asked for an additional 40,000 troops, a request President Obama is considering.

"I prefer to keep talking about: Is it worth winning?" Hoh says. "Is it worth losing more lives? And is it worth spending billions of dollars that, frankly, this country does not have?"

Hoh began his public service in the Marine Corps. Then, as a civilian Defense Department employee, he led reconstruction efforts in former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit. Later, as a captain in the Marines, he fought in Iraq's Anbar province, where he was cited for "uncommon bravery." After his stints in Iraq, Hoh signed on as a foreign service official in Afghanistan, working on development efforts in Zabul province, a Taliban hotbed.

In his long resignation letter to the State Department, Hoh says the U.S. has not understood the true nature of the Afghan insurgency, and he uses the word "valleyism" to describe much of the insurgency there.

"In Afghanistan, everything is much more localized," Hoh tells NPR. "Allegiance is to your family, and then to your village or your valley, and that's what they fight for.

"There has not been a traditional central government there and I don't believe a central government is wanted, and actually, I believe, they fight the central government just as much as they fight the foreign occupiers," he adds.

Courtesy of Matthew HohMatthew Hoh speaks with soldiers and airmen from Bravo Co. 1-4 Infantry and the Zabul Provincial Reconstruction Team in the summer of 2009 in Zabul, Afghanistan.

Courtesy of Matthew HohMatthew Hoh speaks with soldiers and airmen from Bravo Co. 1-4 Infantry and the Zabul Provincial Reconstruction Team in the summer of 2009 in Zabul, Afghanistan.

Hoh says the five months he spent in Afghanistan, during which time he worked in two different parts of the country, put him in daily contact with Afghans. He says it was in conversations with them that his thinking on U.S. strategy in Afghanistan evolved.

"They are the ones that really codified my thoughts on this," he says. "And you realize that what they want is to be left alone."

In his letter, Hoh says families must be reassured their dead have sacrificed for a "purpose worthy of futures lost, love vanished, and promised dreams unkept. I have lost confidence such assurances can anymore be made." He says it was difficult for him to write that.

"But I don't believe we should continue losing and sacrificing our young men and women for goals that meet no strategic purpose to the United States," he tells NPR. "And the idea that we should continue fighting there just because we have been fighting there for the last eight years I think is completely irrational."

Hoh dismisses concerns, raised by others such as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, that a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan will prompt a Taliban comeback and, consequently, a return of al-Qaida. He says after al-Qaida lost its Afghan safe haven following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the group evolved its strategy, looking beyond a political or geographical boundary.

"They are not looking for a safe haven in Afghanistan. They don't need that," he says. "They've already got safe havens in half a dozen other countries — Somalia, Sudan, Yemen."

More to the point, he says, the vast majority of attackers in al-Qaida's successful operations, including Sept. 11, are not from the ethnic Pashto belt of Afghanistan or Pakistan. They are, in fact, from the West and the Persian Gulf states. The continued U.S. presence in Afghanistan only reinforces al-Qaida's message, and causes people to want to fight the West and to join its ranks, he says.

"We have an approach where we haven't evolved ourselves. We're still set up to do our foreign policy and our defense operations like we were in 1991, and we need to change," Hoh says. "Al-Qaida changed, they evolved. They got smart about how they're going to do their operations. We need to do the same."

tartufe  01/29/2009 03:20 PM Report

Try this as a cautionary tale:

TECHNOLOGY IS TRANSFERABLE (TIT - THE HIND ONE UNDESIRABLE.)

Now visualize an eclectic fleet offshore of NY City in international waters (50 miles?), an ensemble from Yemen, Syria, Sudan, Iran, N. Korea, Pakistan et al.

Seven missile freighted drones are fired (either one from each, or one firing all seven). One at Wall Street, one at Times Square, one at Statue of Liberty, one at White House, one at Capital, one at Pentagon and one at State Department. Targets? Symbolism!

NOW! Test your arrogance level. What proportionality ratio do you deem acceptable now? At one time ours was 30:1, innocent to bad. If the target is three American officials, do they get nearly a 100 civilians free of world-wide condemnation - as we seem to expect as our due?

Make one drone head for the city hall of Peoria - just to see how it plays. Are the deaths in a mountain village less dear than those in Peoria?

For the arrogant: Yes [X], No [ ].

All others: Yes [ ], No [X].

As in Iraq, we will leave Afghanistan / Pakistan (ultimately) with more hatred than when we arrived. Ahh, but the M-I oligarchy profiteers will be happy clams in the Bahamas.

tartufe  12/29/2008 04:33 AM Report

How will the Obama-Clinton-Gates team handle the 300 and counting carnage the Israeli's are meting out as we speak.

Will they continue the dishonest brokerage and continue the kowtowing to our M.E. mirror image? Continue to ramp up hatred to the point they ALL wish for the 'bomb' in their extant impotence?

They make compatible (equally unhealthy) partners. We too like to rub our enemies noses in their own excrement and bomb them if they complain, revolt or insurrect(wd?).

The Zionist's lobby will make chumps out of Obama, Clinton, Gates et al and we can keep the M.E. Misery going right into Armageddon. Our M-I complex is having a Happy Hanukkah. They can smell the blood of the 300, as it turns to green in their offshore bank accounts. The bombs, shells, munitions that has to be replaced OYE!. We'll pay as usual but the M-I vampires will always get theirs.

Olmert's timing may needlessly have been hurried to occur before Bush's term expires. But he needn't worry -

OBAMA-CLINTON-GATES WILL "CHANGE" NOTHING!!! THE CAMPAIGN IS OVER! THE REAL WORLD ISN'T WAITING TO TEST THEIR LIES! NOR IS OLMERT!

tartufe  12/27/2008 05:20 PM Report

Opportunistic chance to re-post with correction. Thanks.

WORLD’S TOP THREE SCAMMERS OF U.S. TREASURY: 1. OSAMA BIN LADEN, 2. NOURI MALAKI, 3. HAMID KARZAI. (HENRY PAULSON HONORABLE MENTION).

OSAMA BIN LADEN

11/01/04 - Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden said he is trying to bankrupt the U.S. through its war on terror, a strategy he says felled the Soviet Union two decades ago in Afghanistan, according to a translation by al-Jazeera television of his videotaped statement.

“All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point East to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaeda, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies,” bin Laden said, according to the al-Jazeera transcript.

Well, the wiley old fox may live in a cave but he’s well on his way. And he even cites the M-I complex - accurately!

NOURI MALIKI (VIA BUSH, CHENEY, M-I COMPLEX OF COURSE)

By Bob Deans Cox News Service Published on: 02/28/08.

The Iraq war will cost Americans between $3 trillion and $5 trillion, including military spending, broader economic costs and decades of benefits and medical care for combat veterans, a Nobel prize-winning economist told the Joint Economic Committee on Thursday.

HAMID KARZAI

“And Afghanistan will not allow the international community leave it before we are fully on our feet, before we are strong enough to defend our country, before we are powerful enough to have a good economy.” Karzai said.

He then added that the world community can’t leave “before we have taken from President Bush and the next administration billions and billions of more dollars.”

“No way that they can let you go.” said Karzai, whose remarks drew laughter.

As of last summer, the United States had spent about $200 billion on the war in Afghanistan, according to congressional officials. Both Bush and President-elect Obama have made continued U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan central to their foreign policies.

HENRY PAULSON - HONORABLE MENTION

By: CNBC.com [28 Nov 2008 ] 01:56 PM ET

Given the speed at which the federal government is throwing money at the financial crisis, the average taxpayer, never mind member of Congress might not be faulted for losing track.

CNBC, however, has been paying very close attention and keeping a running tally of actual spending as well as the commitments involved. And there’s been quite a jump since we last tabulated things two weeks ago.

Try $7.36 trillion dollars. That’s more than double what was spent on WWII, if adjusted for inflation, based on our computations from a variety of estimates and sources.

COMMENTARY

We (Congress/Bush) have given Mr. Paulson a license to steal (TARP).

He has outdone the top three non-resident scammers, and history will wonder (1) how he did it, (2) how he gained the presumptive right(?), and (3) why he was never tried, convicted and incarcerated (for crimes against humanity if nothing else). Of course many other conspirators are due the same attention. Citigroup, a large recipient of TARP funds to rescue their hedge fund operations - the very corrosive part that should be allowed to fail - comes to mind.

It’s obvious that to date the financial wise-guy hedgers got the bailout medicine when excising the putrescent corruption from the financial body before gangrene set in was what was really needed. The really vulnerable and more extensive mortgagee’s crises have gone begging (literally). The predators seem to prevail a la the law of the jungle. Maybe we’re not that much a higher form of animal after all?

Oligarchic governance is a lethal combination. Like a corrupt cop.

Paulson et al should be consigned to living under a Detroit bridge for the downturn’s duration with their victims. Osama bin Laden has to be applauding him and all his ilk - firing his AK47 in the air with great jubilation over the accomplishments of the three non US coconspirators, but doubtless equally exuberant for his unexpected partner and allies “Allie Baba Paulson and his forty plus thieves.”

We’re run by a ship of fools, venal whores and grasping children.

doodahdaze  12/27/2008 10:01 AM Report

Of course it's your fault, tarparfait. Everything's your fault, it goes without saying. Just a couple sips of the (spiked?) Nader flavor Kool-aid and one is armed with enough self-denying guilt backed righteous rage to wrap one's own knuckles for such a foolish inexcusable mistake... At least that's what mother always told me.

And that might be why I'm the mayor of McDonalds now.

tartufe  12/26/2008 03:31 PM Report

Howdy doody, take your victories where you can. The omitted "m" scamers cum scammers is worthy of a mea culpa. So, "Mea culpa!"

tartufe  12/26/2008 03:26 PM Report

Alas, an unfortunate accuracy, "Gates represents some of the best adult supervision America has ever had." That puts the entire field in perspective: a dung heap of M-I complex lackeys. His exalted acumen of being "spot on about the unexpected and unintended consequences of war" - especially our style of indiscriminate techno-arrogance - should give him a clue that maybe killing civilians with drone-firing missiles just might be recruiting Taliban and al Qaeda faster than they could do without us.

Re God's irony - poetic or prosaic - one could ponder if our enemies in turn will apply an "acceptable collateral damage ratio" on our citizenry on some future what-goes-around-comes-around day. Gates led by Bush-Obama may well show us the way to closing that circle. As stated before:

We’re run by a ship of fools, venal whores and grasping children.

Tyler  12/26/2008 02:16 PM Report

Brilliant... brilliant... brilliant! America at its soaring best... Gates represents some of the best adult supervision America has ever had. He is spot on about the unexpected and unintended consequences of war, especially a misadventure of dissembling, ill-conceived choice. A perfect example is one Bush who ventured halfway around the world to remove one Hussein, only to bring (or to help pave the path for) another into the White House. God is poetic sometimes.

doodahdaze  12/26/2008 01:57 PM Report

tartouche, twat are these "SCAMERS" you are referring to?

Is this a science fiction movie?

That I should add to my repertoire.

Of useful intellectual dalliances.

That I should refer to my good friend, Brad Pitiful.

tartufe  12/23/2008 05:54 PM Report

WORLD’S TOP THREE SCAMERS OF U.S. TREASURY: 1. OSAMA BIN LADEN, 2. NOURI MALAKI, 3. HAMID KARZAI. (HENRY PAULSON HONORABLE MENTION).

OSAMA BIN LADEN

11/01/04 - Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden said he is trying to bankrupt the U.S. through its war on terror, a strategy he says felled the Soviet Union two decades ago in Afghanistan, according to a translation by al-Jazeera television of his videotaped statement.

“All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point East to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaeda, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies,” bin Laden said, according to the al-Jazeera transcript.

Well, the wiley old fox may live in a cave but he’s well on his way. And he even cites the M-I complex - accurately!

NOURI MALIKI (VIA BUSH, CHENEY, M-I COMPLEX OF COURSE)

By Bob Deans Cox News Service Published on: 02/28/08.

The Iraq war will cost Americans between $3 trillion and $5 trillion, including military spending, broader economic costs and decades of benefits and medical care for combat veterans, a Nobel prize-winning economist told the Joint Economic Committee on Thursday.

HAMID KARZAI

“And Afghanistan will not allow the international community leave it before we are fully on our feet, before we are strong enough to defend our country, before we are powerful enough to have a good economy.” Karzai said.

He then added that the world community can’t leave “before we have taken from President Bush and the next administration billions and billions of more dollars.”

“No way that they can let you go.” said Karzai, whose remarks drew laughter.

As of last summer, the United States had spent about $200 billion on the war in Afghanistan, according to congressional officials. Both Bush and President-elect Obama have made continued U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan central to their foreign policies.

HENRY PAULSON - HONORABLE MENTION

By: CNBC.com [28 Nov 2008 ] 01:56 PM ET

Given the speed at which the federal government is throwing money at the financial crisis, the average taxpayer, never mind member of Congress might not be faulted for losing track.

CNBC, however, has been paying very close attention and keeping a running tally of actual spending as well as the commitments involved. And there’s been quite a jump since we last tabulated things two weeks ago.

Try $7.36 trillion dollars. That’s more than double what was spent on WWII, if adjusted for inflation, based on our computations from a variety of estimates and sources.

COMMENTARY

We (Congress/Bush) have given Mr. Paulson a license to steal (TARP).

He has outdone the top three non-resident scammers, and history will wonder (1) how he did it, (2) how he gained the presumptive right(?), and (3) why he was never tried, convicted and incarcerated (for crimes against humanity if nothing else). Of course many other conspirators are due the same attention. Citigroup, a large recipient of TARP funds to rescue their hedge fund operations - the very corrosive part that should be allowed to fail - comes to mind.

It’s obvious that to date the financial wise-guy hedgers got the bailout medicine when excising the putrescent corruption from the financial body before gangrene set in was what was really needed. The really vulnerable and more extensive mortgagee’s crises have gone begging (literally). The predators seem to prevail a la the law of the jungle. Maybe we’re not that much a higher form of animal after all?

Oligarchic governance is a lethal combination. Like a corrupt cop.

Paulson et al should be consigned to living under a Detroit bridge for the downturn’s duration with their victims. Osama bin Laden has to be applauding him and all his ilk - firing his AK47 in the air with great jubilation over the accomplishments of the three non US coconspirators, but doubtless equally exuberant for his unexpected partner and allies “Allie Baba Paulson and his forty plus thieves.”

We’re run by a ship of fools, venal whores and grasping children.

tartufe  12/23/2008 03:39 PM Report

Riccy, perhaps you're right. God knows our hubris is only exceeded by our arrogance. You appear to have made an art-form of economics. However, your triumphalism may have shorter life-span than you appear to hope.

Our fall from grace is a universal human malady and is not endemic to the U.S. alone - it's pandemic. Egregious greed and corruption virus is world-wide - elstwise the subprime and the follow on Madoff Ponzi schemes both would have died a still birth - on shore. The relative fall in other currencies vis-a-vis the dollar reflects this, and the fact that gold is not (yet) $2,000 an ounce.

So if in your glee of the US fall from prominence you can be firmly assured that Brazil is free from venality and corruption then more power to you. Crow away.

Russia - yet another case in point - with all their natural resources they may as well be one big gulag archipelago, all because of corruption.

Lastly, the US may still retain an ingredient hard to pinpoint and harder to emulate. And that is individual inventiveness and entrepreneurial desires. These too may become a victim of our own folly, but until then the US is not too bad a place to start out. Even yet. It was that very inventiveness - misused - that dreamed of Credit Default Swaps etc.

But keep up your onslaught, we may learn something.

Ricardo_Amaral  12/23/2008 11:35 AM Report

Reply to Tartufe

We are just entering the first Great Depression of the new Millennium. And it is going to hurt everybody – some more and some less, but at the end of the day in a global economy most countries will be affected by this massive international economic crisis.

But for all practical purposes what has happened in the last year in the international financial markets is a clear signal that the end of an international monetary system designed around the US dollar has reached its final stage and it will be replaced in the near future by a new system more realistic for this new Century.

The current international financial system designed around the US dollar has become obsolete and right now there are many countries around the world adjusting accordingly.

tartufe  12/23/2008 02:32 AM Report

Riccy, your modesty is underwhelming. Since you know the shortcomings of the US of A so well, the singular lesson that you of all sorts should have picked up on is, "Pride goeth before the fall." We try to set examples and you seem to revel in ignoring them. Crow is too grissly, so beware.

Ricardo_Amaral  12/23/2008 12:47 AM Report

Reply to tartufe

I am glad I found a person to criticize my postings. On the Elite Trader Forum I had many people who used to criticize and even make fun of my articles and postings – but as it turned out I have been consistently right on my predictions and commentary and for most of last year all the critics have disappeared, but they still reading my postings.

Nothing like being consistently right over a long period of time for the critics to disappear one after another.

Today you’re describing me as being boorish, but years ago I am sure you would have ganged up on me with all the usual suspects and you would have described most of my articles as fantasy and so on….

You are looking at most of this material as a Monday morning quarterback. It is much harder to look into the future and have the right foresight and see all the things that other people can’t see. If you read my articles going back 10 years you would understand what I am talking about. My predictions have been materializing and coming to past on a consistent basis and they have been right on the nose.

Countries in South America such as Brazil have been putting its house in order for many years with responsible economic and political policies. Today Brazil is a country with a clean balance sheet, very little outstanding debt, and a tremendous future ahead of us – the future could not look better from the Brazilian perspective. Today Brazil is in the best shape economically that Brazil has been in the last 100 years. The future looks great.

As you mentioned on your posting in a very short period of time the United States collapsed into a Banana Republic – with scandal, after scandal, stock market manipulations, and an economic system built on top of a foundation of quick sand.

We are reaching the last stages of this spectacular economic collapse when we will have a massive meltdown of the US dollar – right now this currency is in the process of becoming just Confetti.

The Chinese will have two choices in the future when they decided to use their $ 2 trillion and very soon US$ 3 trillion dollars in foreign reserves – They will be able to wall paper every house in Asia with US$ 100 bills or they can use it as Confetti in any kind of celebrations.

Today I met a group of friends, and I asked them who had a set of Monopoly game? Four people said that they had some special edition of that game. Then I told them keep your game in a safe place because before you know the monopoly paper money that came with the game it will be worth more than the real thing.

I hope you grasped what I am talking about.

.

tartufe  12/22/2008 10:01 PM Report

More evidence that the venal whore adolescents sending our youngest and strongest into harms way will risk any venture, slaughter any number of people if profit is even remotely possible. Radical? Damn straight. Reality is usually radical. Ignoring it is even more so.

Shaft  12/22/2008 05:50 PM Report

Secretary Gates mentioned "piracy" as the main problem nowadays. Well, what do you expect sir, when a mistaken foreign policy is employed by your predecessor, former SoD Rumsfeld? The invasion of Somalia was by far the worst debacle of this administration, even it out-stupefy the Iraq debacle by 10:1. What makes it so funny in a peculiar way is that they had to wait for the holiday season break of Congress to invade Somalia. As if it would lessen the measure of stupidity used to calculate the idiocy, we thought when the 2006 November congressional election was there to make the President think twice before he derails the war on the real terrorists, Al-Qaida. The American people elected more Democrats for the senate in order to put some leash on the foreign policy decision makes, but invading Somalia at the last minute was really very embarrassing. Now we have destabilized Somalia, with angry population, and it would take a while for us to straighten the situation there. We removed the moderate Islamists to retreat to the ultra fanatic islamists. I am sad that we have to learn our lessons in this manner. But then again, given the record of the administration, it's safe to assume that we were being blindsided. Look at what we did in Iraq, we removed the worst enemy of Iran, Saddam. We also went to Afghanistan and removed the most destabilizing force for Iran, the Taliban. We left Iran stronger than it ever was, not to mention we paid in blood and treasure for the Iranian benefit. It seems the current administration is working for Iran, if you ask me. The most annoying man in Iraq (Al-Sadr) is getting endocrined in Iran, while we are struggling with the problems in the frontlines. It seems we are competing to make the Somali case the same. The piracy can only be dealt diplomatically, not sending state of the art military might equipment to people who have no understanding at all.

tartufe  12/21/2008 05:46 PM Report

So what the hell is funny about this:

President Bush visits Afghanistan and is greeted with enthusiasm by American troops. He also reassures Afghan President Hamid Karzai of America's continued support. In his response, Karzai squeezes in a touch of humor. Video courtesy of Reuters.

http://online.wsj.com/video/russian-warship-docks-in-cuba/32D75765-5FCB-40C5-BDBD-F0DF699395D5.html?m od=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1

Watch the series of WSJ videos. Particularly the one on Bush's night time visit to Afghanistan and Karzai, where Karzai says he wont let us leave before extracting "billions and billions of dollars" from the US.

When you know that corruption reigns in both countries to the extent that you can be outwardly flippant about the graft, greed and rampant corruption that we pandemically spread wherever we go, it says volumes! Karzai's brazen (alleged) humor matches his brazen corruption. Note: he wasn't laughing. The report attributed humor - after the fact. Laughing up his sleeve for sure.

And now we have the reasonable, intelligent , modest, public servant, Secretary Gates (entrapped?) in a job of carrying out our misguided policies re perpetuating war(s). A la Vietnam, Iraq victory was not a goal as much as sustainment. The M-I complex can't stay in Post Toasties in the manner they're accustomed without a sustained conflict somewhere on the planet.

Gates is the perfect foil. No exit strategy. Hang around the area for as long as we can get by with and wait for defeat Vietnam-style or Iraq-style. As long as it's slow attrition, he will have done his job. Bin Laden may die of old age, but we would decry his successor to be an even bigger threat, so our war machine can trundle on.

Our head-in-our-but belligerence is also demonstrated in the video about the Russian naval visit to Cuba, citing possible links to our missile defense, NATO and Georgia.

If you're feeling bereft of enemies, just wait awhile. The Defense Department and the Pentagon through the M-I complex lobbying and back-stage string pulling will accommodate in some inane manner - if they have to provoke something or make it up (Tonkin, WMDs). Terrorism is such an open ended gift to the jingos. Like Christmas every day.

How long can we escape the unintended consequences? Will we ever wonder what our enemies deem to be "acceptable collateral damage?" In Peoria, say? Technology is transferable and the Russians (in Cuba) don't need it (transferred) they have it.

Sadly Obama's magic will fail on this and the financial crises. Citigroup et al and doubtless the M-I complex purchased him early in his campaign. Venality makes the world go round - ask Karzai, Paulson, Bernanke, Bush, Clintons (both), Rubin, Congress, K-street, humanity.

ShalomFreedman  12/20/2008 03:04 PM Report

Secretary Gates comes across as a reasonable, intelligent , modest, public servant. He speaks in a clear and understandable way.

His knowledge of the insides of the government process and of the military is no doubt second to none.

Still it seems to me his words of support for the Pakistani government and military do not the whole American- Pakistani story. Among others Sarah Chayes has pointed out how duplicitous the Pakistani establishment and military have been in supporting anti- American forces in Afghanistan.

My own real question about this, and also about Iraq is whether it ultimately makes much sense for the U.S. to be in these places.

On Iran I believe Secretary Gates understands the situation well. He understands that there are no moderate Iranian leaders and also understands that the Iranian acquistion of nuclear arms is a global game - changer.

He is however extremely reluctant to use force , and this will clearly be a last resort in the Iranian question.

On Russia and China Secretary Gates speaks like a good diplomat, attributing perhaps a bit more good- will and action to them than they deserve. He could have had he wished drawn up a long list of grievances against both.

Charlie Rose at one point suggested Gates could have been Secy. of State. He does sound at times more like a diplomat than like a fighting lead of the world's largest military force.

All in all , however Gates gives the impression of a person who can be relied on to act in a balanced and rational way.

ShalomFreedman  12/20/2008 03:04 PM Report

Secretary Gates comes across as a reasonable, intelligent , modest, public servant. He speaks in a clear and understandable way.

His knowledge of the insides of the government process and of the military is no doubt second to none.

Still it seems to me his words of support for the Pakistani government and military do not the whole American- Pakistani story. Among others Sarah Chayes has pointed out how duplicitous the Pakistani establishment and military have been in supporting anti- American forces in Afghanistan.

My own real question about this, and also about Iraq is whether it ultimately makes much sense for the U.S. to be in these places.

On Iran I believe Secretary Gates understands the situation well. He understands that there are no moderate Iranian leaders and also understands that the Iranian acquistion of nuclear arms is a global game - changer.

He is however extremely reluctant to use force , and this will clearly be a last resort in the Iranian question.

On Russia and China Secretary Gates speaks like a good diplomat, attributing perhaps a bit more good- will and action to them than they deserve. He could have had he wished drawn up a long list of grievances against both.

Charlie Rose at one point suggested Gates could have been Secy. of State. He does sound at times more like a diplomat than like a fighting lead of the world's largest military force.

All in all , however Gates gives the impression of a person who can be relied on to act in a balanced and rational way.

tartufe  12/20/2008 01:55 PM Report

OK Ricardo we get it. You're as boorish as I am re the US. I wish I could tell you to get a life, but we have sunk so low that criticism from all quarters is unfortunately justified. But is there a bit of schadenfreude in your repeated declarations? You seem to be celebrating too much.

I agree that a culture that jingoistically repeatedly creates preemptive wars (we have many: Remember the Maine, Gulf of Tonkin, WMDs et al), then follows that up with the spate of egregious greed exported around the world with collateralized debt obligations based on subprime mortgages, closely followed by Bernard Madoff's Ponzi scheme deserves to be criticised and chastened.

The astonishing part is the lack of retribution, compounded by rewarding those that created the melt down to begin with. The worst offender is Henry Paulson followed by Ben Bernanke (and Bush without saying). Paulson is so outrageously brazen he literally unilaterally bailed out his hedge fund brethren with funds promised to help the victimized mortgagees. Barney Frank called him on it but let him get by with ignoring the provisions in the TARP legislation.

We're not a nation of laws, but a nation a la a South American banana republic (that was for you Sr. Amaral).

Many (all?) NY bankers, hedge fund operators, all living CEOs of Citigroup (legislative lobbyists and enablers of cc exploitation) et al and top government officials (Paulson et al) should be thoroughly investigated. But by whom in our predatory state of corruption? We're fast approaching Russia in corruption. The SEC and FBI both have joined the ne'er-do-well ranks in this regard.

In short we're reaping what we've been sowing (and I'm not a religious zealot). But remember Sr. Amaral, our decline is remarkably relative. The swamp (US) raises and lowers all boats together. You and your amigos may gloat for a while but it may be short term. But please don't stop. I'm not because the crimes-against-humanity are stupendous. The perpetrators need to spend the downturn's duration under a bridge with their victims. Not in the Bahamas.

Ricardo_Amaral  12/20/2008 06:42 AM Report

Here is another current example of decline in United States prestige, influence, and power.

December 20, 2008

SouthAmerica: I understand why South American countries are giving the United States this kind of treatment – among other things it is a response and natural reaction as these countries started recognizing that the stature and power of the United States is collapsing around the world.

Basically it is just a form of retribution and also reflects the loss of prestige and influence of the United States in many areas around the world including South America….

You can read the entire article at:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50167&perpage=6&pagenumber=36

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tartufe  12/19/2008 11:13 PM Report

The obscenity is not using a euphemism for 'shit,' but of the obscene "murder" of our troops and Afghan and Pakistan troops and civilians in a double system scamming our treasury supporting two corrupt regimes. (See Bill Moyers interview with Sarah Chayes, who lived in the region for seven years.) For more try, "Corruption Destroys Afghanistan

By Michael Winship"

Now to the parents whose sons/daughters that could die for all that, what is the most obscene, "Your daughter was killed in Pakistan," or "shit?"

Given my impression of where the M-I complex, our arrogance and the entrenched jingoistic mindset of our leaders will take our proudest and youngest for our counterproductive efforts there, it couldn't get any crappier. They're creating more enemies with their callous disregard for the "acceptable-collateral-damage."

For more "refined thoughtful discourses of past decades, don't you?" skip the feces smeared across our daily news by the those that make it. Mr Gates included. Mr Gates' job is to be well spoken and diplomatic as he sends our troops in harms way in a specious and feckless war - in some ways worse than Iraq. So, I feel compelled (exonerated) to end with the beginning, "Holy feces. He as much admitted that they have no end game in Afghanistan."

Joanna  12/19/2008 12:58 AM Report

I'm still trying to figure out how "feces" could be "holy"!!? Starting off in such a crude manner sort of negated the rest of your comment!

Mr. Gates was well-spoken and was diplomatic about President Bush and President elect Obama when asked about each of them by Charlie and what his relationship has and will be with each. Methinks Mr. Gates made history being appointed by both a conservative Republican and a liberal Democrat. He is to be congratulated.

Charlie, do the comments from your viewers sometimes make you afraid for our country's future? I'd like to be optimistic, because that's my nature, but as I read comments here and on other sites I'm reminded of what Governor Jindal remarked about the present "coarseness" in America. I DO miss the more refined thoughtful discourses of past decades, don't you?

Ricardo_Amaral  12/19/2008 12:29 AM Report

Many well-educated Brazilians that I know understand that the best days of the United States are long gone. From a Brazilian perspective the United States is a very mature society that has reached its declining years as other empires did in the past such as the British Empire, and the Soviet Empire.

In the past Empires such as the British Empire died a slow death, but as we saw in the early 1990’s in our new age a former Empires such as the Soviet Union die a sudden death at the speed of light. Today Empires crumble almost overnight.

In my opinion, every American should read a book by Emmanuel Todd “The Breakdown of the American Order – After the Empire” which was a best seller in Europe, but in the United States the book sold very few copies – and I never saw Mr. Todd being interviewed by any American television show.

Most Americans never heard of Emmanuel Todd. And they don’t know what is Mr. Todd’s claim to fame.

In August of 2004 I posted the following in the PBS message board.

August 6, 2004

…I just finish reading “After the Empire - The Breakdown of the American Order” by Emmanuel Todd. This book was a best seller in Europe last year, but was published here in the US only at the end of February of 2004.

This book gives an extraordinary explanation to what is happening around the world today. The book also mentioned what is happening in the Middle East and in Saudi Arabia. This book is a must read for anyone who really wants to understand what is going on between the United States and the rest of the world.

You might ask me what is so special about this author when compared with all the other similar books that are available on this subject?

Emmanuel Todd has a special credential that nobody else has; in 1976 he wrote a book predicting and explaining in detail the coming collapse of the Soviet Empire. He was away ahead of his time, and he was the first person to spot the coming problems.

Once again, he does a superb job on his new book when he explain in detail all the interactions today between the countries around the world with the US, and the causes for the coming collapse of the American economic system.

*****

This article was originally published in Neue Zuricher Zeitung (The New Zuricher, Sunday morning).

July 26, 2003

“The Conceited Empire”

A historian credited with predicting the downfall of the Soviet Union in the 1970s now says that the US has been on its way out for the last decade

by Martin A. Senn and Felix Lautenschlager

translated by Andreas Artz

The power and influence of the United States is being overestimated, claims French historian and demographer Emmanuel Todd. "There will be no American Empire." "The world is too large and dynamic to be controlled by one power." According to Todd, whose 1976 book predicted the fall of the Soviet Union, there is no question: the decline of America the Superpower has already begun.

Emmanuel Todd compares the US to 16th century Spain, arguing that US economic power is being undermined by the decline of its industrial base and its increased dependence on other countries to feed its consumption. The power and influence of the United States is being overestimated, claims French historian and demographer Emmanuel Todd. "There will be no American Empire." "The world is too large and dynamic to be controlled by one power." According to Todd, whose 1976 book predicted the fall of the Soviet Union, there is no question: the decline of America the Superpower has already begun.

*****

Now going back to South America, and a recent article published by Bloomberg News: The key words here are: “Latin American and Caribbean leaders gathering in Brazil tomorrow will mark a historic occasion: a region-wide summit that excludes the United States.”

***

“Bush Excluded by Latin Summit as China, Russia Loom” By Joshua Goodman

Bloomberg News - December 15, 2008

Dec. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Latin American and Caribbean leaders gathering in Brazil tomorrow will mark a historic occasion: a region-wide summit that excludes the United States.

Almost two centuries after President James Monroe declared Latin America a U.S. sphere of influence, the region is breaking away. From socialist-leaning Venezuela to market-friendly Brazil, governments are expanding military, economic and diplomatic ties with potential U.S. adversaries such as China, Russia and Iran.

“Monroe certainly would be rolling over in his grave,” says Julia Sweig, director of the Latin America program at the Council of Foreign Relations in Washington and author of the 2006 book “Friendly Fire: Losing Friends and Making Enemies in the Anti-American Century.”…

You can read the entire article at: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63341&perpage=6&pagenumber=11

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REMant  12/18/2008 10:07 PM Report

The irony is that the world's interest in US police power is the result of the deterioration of economic and physical well-being that US defense and economic policies have brought about. The money that is flooding into this country is also destabilizing. And current monetary inflation may well cause another catastrophic hike in world food prices, because our real macro-economic problem is not deflation of the price of assets, but the depreciation in the value of money to buy essentials. As the world has moved toward democracy it has become increasingly less safe, not vice versa. (Slavery, usually brought in at this point, being the exception that proves the rule, because the worst offenders by far were the small landowners. Most, if not all, the Founding Fathers being opposed to slavery, including those who owned them.) If ppl are struggling against tyranny it is in many cases because their self-seeking has called into being the reaction they proclaim against. But Africans are now ruing their treatment of European "colonialists." By focusing only on this supposed struggle, we are committing a grievous error. Our PR problem, too, is rather that we are so much like Baywatch, which was about as moralizing a vehicle as Hollywood has ever produced, tho the Secretary can I suppose be forgiven for thinking it was all about bikinis. All the foreigners I know ask me why America has to be so moral, by which they mean that primitivist bent. They have nothing against bikinis.

I agree that South America and in particular our continuing problem with Mexico should not be neglected.

tartufe  12/18/2008 09:25 PM Report

Holy feces. He as much admitted that they have no end game in Afghanistan. Vaguely referenced hanging around for a couple of years merely to prevent Al Qaeda from rebuilding.

Well lots of luck. We are recruiting more al Qaeda by our callous disregard for what we term as acceptable collateral damage (killed civilians). Pakistan, where the real danger and problems lie, is being roiled by our indiscriminate bombing and resultant civilian casualty. Our very presence is rebuilding our adversaries faster and more determinedly than our absence would ever do. Besides, we don’t seem to know what victory would look like. Osama bin Laden’s death wouldn’t even settle that. Our mission: extract our head and then our troops. Send in Hillary and maybe USAID.

Iraq’s characterization as a success or failure can’t be done until our departure is assimilated by the Iraqi’s themselves and their consequent reaction. If it’s a massive return to sectarian violence, an attempt to rebuild the Baath party (already in progress), and a general reversion to tribal enmities, they’re back to square one (where a Sadam -type strong man is needed?) , it will have been for naught.

hrc  12/18/2008 07:56 PM Report

That's not Change! that's....

marcarch  12/18/2008 04:26 PM Report

I live in Arizona, so anything that makes our relationship with S Amer better i'm for it. It was perfunctory to study spanish, even in elem school in the 50's here. Yes, the topic did not come up, but I'm sure Gates knows where S Amer is, Texas, altho light years apart in sensibility, does border with Mexico. But that is Central America, I guess.

but i want to comment on the C Rose question as to whether this period of time is safer than during the cold war. i was a kid in the 50's, so remember ducking under desks (and i already knew by the age of 6 or 7 that it was a ridiculous thing to do), but other than the Bay of Pigs, the MAD policy, as hair raising as it was, seems to me, to feel safer than the sole terrorist planting a single dirty weapon; nuclear, biological or otherwise device, in any major american city or utility. it's easy to compare the effect of 9/11 on the world, economy, war, etc. with what would be the result of such a disaster. in fact the entire world would spin into chaos. So it seems much less predictable and harder to safeguard against one madman (or small group), than it was when we had the direct line telephone to Moscow to avoid total annihilation, not withstanding Dr Stangelove.

Ricardo_Amaral  12/18/2008 03:55 PM Report

It seems to me that Mr. Gates is a much better Secretary of Defense than Donald Rumsfeld.

I guess what Mr. Gates said regarding leader of countries approaching him to let him know that they want their countries to have a close relationship with Washington it does not apply to South America.

You can read why on my posting at the Elite Trader Forum at:

Disconnecting the United States and South America

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2227803#post2227803

My screen name at Elite Trader is SouthAmerica.

I also wrote many articles about Brazil and nuclear weapons and you can find these articles listed on my blog which I did update on December 14, 2008 – on this blog I listed some of my published articles on Brazzil Magazine, ArabNews and so on…

You can check them at: http://brazzilnews.blogspot.com/

Mr. Gates might not be aware of what is happening in South America, since South America is not considered to be an important area for the United States.

I know for a fact that Americans don’t care about South America including Brazil and I have had first hand experience on that area. I contacted a lot people regarding that project and I heard over and over again that Americans and the US were not interested in South America.

Since then I have been working in an effort to connect Brazil with Saudi Arabia, and China and my efforts it seems to be working.

In June 2003, I wrote an article regarding “Brazil and Saudi Arabia” that caught the attention of the Brazilian State Department in Brazil.

They must have enjoyed reading my article, because as soon as the article was published in Brazzil magazine, on the same day, they posted a copy of my article in Brazil at the Brazilian State Department’s website.

Brazzil Magazine - June 2003 - “Dear Saudis, Play Safe Bring Your Money to Brazil” Written by Ricardo C. Amaral - http://brazzil.com/p117jun03.htm

Since that time Brazil made a lot progress with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Article about China published on Brazzil Magazine on June 2, 2005 “While China Rises the US Falls in Brazil and Latin America” by Ricardo C. Amaral

http://www.brazzil.com/2005-mainmenu-79/152-june-2005/9296.html

When Brazzil Magazine published my first article in June 2005 – Brazzil magazine had no readers from China and very few from Asia, and about 50 percent of the readers were from the United States.

Today only 3 years later, about 45 percent of Brazzil magazine readers are from China and another 10 percent are from other Asian countries and the share of readers from the United States are around 26 percent.

My articles published on Brazzil magazine had a major impact in the number of new readers from China.

A lot of people from the Brazilian government are also reading my articles about Saudi Arabia and China.

*****

Brazzil Magazine - September 2001

“The B-Files” - “The Brazilian Cultural Society”

Written by Ricardo C. Amaral

http://www.brazzil.com/component/content/article/52-september-2001/6752.html

This is an article about an organization that I did try to take off the ground and I worked on that project for the entire year of 2001 – “The Brazilian Cultural Society”

After 9/11 became impossible to find any source of funding for the project at that time, even though I had been able to organize an outstanding group of people who had accepted to be members of the board of trustees of that non-profit organization including former Brazilian President Jose Sarney.

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