Charlie Rose

Yo Chris G., can't stand the heat, huh?   05/02/2008 09:09 PM Report

Chri G.: "I'm just wasting my time with you folks." --- If you can't stand the intellectual heat, when the going gets intellectually tough, it's time to turn, tuck tail, and run, huh Chris G.? ...He never would provide evidence of that *complete* Wright quote, did he? And I guess Chris G. would look even *sillier* condemning Martin Luther King. I think it's easily safe to say that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has done a LOT more in his life and for other people, than Chris has EVER done in his own or for other people. Yo Chris G.! Don't come back now, ya heaya..!? Or ya'll get anotha intellectual head whoopin'! --J.A.

Chri G.  05/02/2008 07:13 PM Report

I'm just wasting my time with you folks. Good luck to all of you, and may you see the reality of what the nature of this problem is before it is too late.Thanks for all of you 'advice'.

Quotes from Martin Luther King, Jr.   05/02/2008 06:52 PM Report

Since Martin Luther King criticized, even condemned, the American government, its foreign and domestic policy, and the direction of the nation, in much the same way, and even some of the same words, that Rev. Wright has, would you (especially you, Chris G.) say that King engaged in 'hate speech' too?: [phonetic, inflected spelling\ "[T\he grrreatest purveyor of violence in the worrrld to-day...!: my owwwn government!", and, "I can hear God saying to America, [King shouting\ 'You are tooo arrrrogant..., and if you don't chaaannnge your ways..., I will rissse up and brrreakkkk the bback-bone of your power!'", and lastly, before his assassination, "What would happen to me from some of our sssick white brothers?" -- Martin Luther King, Jr. Truth or 'hate speech'?

To Chris G.  05/02/2008 06:04 PM Report

Chris G., go back and look at your OWN verbal conduct and all the highly caustic name-calling and epithets you regularly engage in, in addition to your gross "used condom" invective. We don't hear your kind of abusive, coarse language on the Charlie Rose show. Now if you habitually do that here in a place that's supposed to be for civil, reasoned discourse, where you already know that your comments would get deleted if you were, perhaps, even more of your verbal real self, then what do you do in person? And you have the hypocritical nerve to condemn alleged 'hate speech' in Rev. Wright??? Joseph is correct: you don't even see how YOU look.

That figures...: a social geek!   05/02/2008 05:26 PM Report

Chris G.: "My area of expertise is Computers"

, They say that computers are actually "dum" too,   05/02/2008 05:15 PM Report

Chris G.: "My area of expertise is Computers"

From NPR's Daniel Schorr  05/02/2008 04:45 PM Report

Who is the real patriot, willing to service his country? One such man in 1963 served two years in the Marines, then volunteered to become a Navy medical corpsman. In that capacity, he helped to care for President Johnson after his surgery in 1966. ... And who was that patriot? A young, African-American man who went on to become the pastor of a church in Chicago. That's right, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. And he did that at a time where there were many restaurants in this country that wouldn't serve him food.

[ Bill Moyers' interview w Rev. Wright: \   05/02/2008 04:43 PM Report

Bill Moyer's Journal 1-hour interview with Rev. Jeremiah Wright:___

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/watch.html___"Jeremiah Wright was raised in Philadelphia's Germantown neighborhood, his father was a prominent Baptist minister and his mother a respected educator. In the early 1960s, Wright left college at Virginia Union University and signed up for the United States Marine Corps. After his required duty ended, Wright transferred to the Navy and served three more years as a medical technician. Jeremiah Wright became the pastor of Trinity Church in 1972. Some aspects of Trinity's philosophy falls within tradition of Black Liberation Theology. Trinity Church has grown in size and scope under Wright's leadership. He and his congregation have made pilgrimages to Africa, welcomed women leaders and gay members and made Trinity a social force with over 70 ministries addressing community needs ranging from youth groups to day care. The Church today boasts a congregation of 8500 members."

--- More droppings from Chris G. ---   05/02/2008 04:20 PM Report

Chris G.: "And for the record, if you call someone "DUMB", make sure you know how to spell it." _____ One sentence from you: looks like you're finally running out of things to yap about. I personally don't spell "dum" with a "b" because I consider that spelling bigoted against deaf people. Anytime you think you're smarter -- instead of *dummer* -- than I, you should wake up...and apologize. Now where's a *COMPLETE QUOTE* from Wright -- as I said, you can find everything ELSE to YAP about, EXCEPT ANY *DIRECT EVIDENCE*. So, is that all you (ain't) got?

Chris G.  05/02/2008 03:59 PM Report

And for the record, if you call someone "DUMB", make sure you know how to spell it.

Chris G.  05/02/2008 03:57 PM Report

Ok.I must admit, the condom statement was a little much and I apologize for that.Let's back to the debate here.If somebody tells me 'God damn you!' or says 'God damn your family!!' or says 'God damn you to hell!!'...Forgive me for thinking that that person has hatred towards me or my family.America is my extended family.So the words 'God Damn America!!' strike a chord with me as being hateful towards an extended family, the society I live in.Can you follow that logic?Wright screaming these words adds even more emphasis to my interpretation of this man as being hateful towards America.Does that make sense?If it does not, I think that you are just being obtuse and unwilling to engage in an honest discussion with me.Since we're talking about evidence, I'll ask you one more time...WHAT EVIDENCE DID WRIGHT USE TO BASE HIS BELIEF THAT WHITES CREATED AIDS AND SPREAD THE DISEASE INTENTIONALLY THROUGHOUT THE BLACK COMMUNITY HERE AND ABROAD?CAN YOU PLEASE LINK ME TO IT?

My area of expertise is Computer Engineering, but I have taken the same logical principles and applied them to my political interests...And just because I haven't written any books or had socio political peer evaluations of them does not mean that I http://www.charlierose.com/images_toplevel/submit_comment.gif

Submit Commentam incapable of joining this discussion.

--- Yo Chris G., I equate alleged claims... ---   05/02/2008 02:50 PM Report

WITH THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE *EVIDENCE* -- THE "SUBSTANCE", AS YOU HYPOCRITICALLY PUT IT. WE'RE *WAITING* FOR *THAT*: WHERE'S THE *COMPLETE QUOTE* FROM REV. WRIGHT? BUT, INSTEAD, HERE IS WHAT YOU, *PREDICTABLY*, FOR A BARROOM BOOR, SAID (May 1 at 07:48 PM): "I do not need to give you an exact quote." Courts of Law and the field of Logic & Critical Analysis calls that "unresponsive to [i.e., *DODGING*\ the question".

_______________________________________________

None of the people you alluded to write for formal political or literary journals -- and certainly have not written *SCHOLARLY* books or articles -- but, even so, all of them have a larger established audience, of *any* kind, than *you* do, 'Sgt. Waters' (if you even are black, if that's not *another* false claim you *still* keep pumping up over and over, as though that per se proves you're right: I thought Obama was to prove that "race doesn't matter" in society?). Instead of responding to the demand for direct *evidence*, from an entire hour of Wright's interview, you just keep flappin' your jaws and repeating yourself about *anything else*. And, as simple as she is, I bet even Jessica Simpson could write a response comment without invoking "used condom" in it -- so that makes her brighter than *you*. Like any barroom boor, you're to dum to even see how sorry you look.

_______________________________________________

*WHERE'S* ANY *COMPLETE QUOTE* FROM REV. WRIGHT?: WITH WHAT *COMPLETE QUOTE* FROM REV. WRIGHT IN THE BILL MOYERS' NON-SOUNDBITED INTERVIEW -- WHICH IMPRESSED EVEN MANY EDUCATED *WHITE* VIEWERS (you excepted) -- DO YOU DISAGREE? WE'RE STILL *WAITING*...

Chris G.  05/02/2008 01:01 PM Report

You seem to equate recognition, interviews, and published articles of being the determining factor in whether or not someone is an intellectual or has anything honest or meaningful to say.Patt Robertson, John Hagee, Westboro Baptist Church members and Jessica Simpson have all been interviewed, written books and have a mass following.When you have a mass following of idiots, that does not impress me I'm afraid.You seem not be able to look at substance, and instead prefer to be part of a herd rather than an individual free to think on his/her own.I pity you.I'm sure that the 'Rev' Al Sharpton/Jessie Jackon have given speeches at a number of universities, does that mean I have to agree with them or feel that they are more intelligent than I am?You're an ignorant, mindless zombie black, and certainly not my brother in any sense of the word.You are part of the problem, and a big reason why my Black Community is in ruin.It all boils down to blame whitey with people like you.Hey, whatever floats your boat.

--- Yo Chris G., a.ka., Blustering Barroom Boor... ---   05/02/2008 12:43 PM Report

When *you* write -- and sell -- umteen -- *bestselling* -- books -- or just a single *one* -- that people want to *buy* on sociopolitical issues (let alone a *single* published formal article *anywhere*); when *you* even get to Harvard, Princeton, U Penn, or Georgetown, as a student (well that chance has long passed, speaking of *uneducated*), let alone as a tenured senior professor; when *you* can fill even UNIVERSITY auditoria (so much for your claim of "uneducated" audiences), to *overflow*, with Black *&* white *&* Asian *&* Latino *&* Middle Eastern people at *every* level of education and income; when you can count *ANY* prominent scholar, or essayist, or novelist, or poet as your intellectual and personal friend; when *you* can talk *intelligibly* on an intellectual level (which also means *DOCUMENTING* your claims with *direct* complete evidence when challenged for it, the intellectual/evidenciary standards in any university or court of law); when *you* can talk about or 'intellectually' defend yourself, speaking of uneducated, without a *VULGAR* (see, the longer you talk, the more you expose yourself FOR WHAT YOU REALLY ARE) invocation of something other than a *"used condom"* as your final 'intellectual' resort (gee, did Dyson or Cornel ever do *that*?) -- that's 'real intellectual' of you, and a 'real' example for the young ones, huh -- and what do you think Charlie would do if you said that on his show, besides abruptly dismiss you -- see, you can get away with your barrooom 'Sgt. Waters complex' (reference, "A Soldier's Story") coon talk and turpitude in relatively unrestricted comment posts -- the *ONLY* place anyone might see *you* in print -- but you can't get away with such gross indecencies on civil discussion TV, like the Charlie Rose show); when anyone who broadcasts or publishes (in a print or online political/literary journal) wants to *formally* hear what *you* have to say; and, FINALLY, when *you* can so much as present a *single* COMPLETE quote to back up your blustering boorish barroom claims as nothing more than that of a blustering barroom BOOR; then you let us know. Until then, we'll all be waiting FOR *THAT* (but not holding our breath)...

Chris G.  05/02/2008 10:02 AM Report

Cornel West, to Michael Eric Dyson, to Julianne...?Blah blah blah!Is that supposed to be impressive???Mr. Dyson is one of the most unintelligible, rambling and self important speakers I have ever seen.His only listening audience is the same 'victimized', uneducated angry black.You fit right in.His Conversation About Race segment on MSNBC was for lack of a better word, PATHETIC! as well as divisive and uninformative.Cornel West drew laughs from the crowd when he appeared on Bill Maher's show a couple of weeks ago, in yet another unintelligible attempt to explain himself and his Christianity.Not to mention his outrageous appearance and mannerisms that only serve as a smokescreen for his lack of substance.He might as well be Mickey Mouse.Your affiliations do not surprise me one bit.Either you are being pimped by race hustlers or you yourself are one.I suspect the latter, as you've said nothing more inspiring than a used condom.

--- to Chris G.: Yawwwwwnnnn..... ---  05/02/2008 01:18 AM Report

Chris G. on Thursday, May 1 at 11:41 PM: "You bore me." || That's understandable. It's because I have an *intellect*. You had your chance to PUT UP, or SHUT UP -- but of course YOU CAN'T DO EITHER. I've already *been* interviewed on broadcast media numerous times -- and if in your wildest most improbable fantasy you were ever on opposite me, all I'd do is ask you for is ONE COMPLETE QUOTE OF EVIDENCE to back up YOUR BOORISH BARROOM BLUSTER and you'd fall apart right there. You can SHUCK & JIVE and DODGE that here, but you couldn't dodge it there. Yahoo/Google search my name + Berkeley. I'm just a layperson (not a professional pundit) who's yet written periodic analytical commentaries for numerous journals and publications, and specifically invited -- even in Canada -- to write much more regularly than I do, or should. I personally know and am friends with about half the politically progressive Blacks and other national/regional names that you see on national TV: from Cornel West, to Michael Eric Dyson, to Julianne Malveaux, to even novelists like Ishmael Reed and Maxine Hong Kingston, just to name a few, to other progressive commentators, authors and journalists. I could *sell* the names & personal phone numbers in my cell phone address book for some real money -- to people who'd love to have those numbers. I've been interviewed numerous times on radio and television. I've even been interviewed on TV in the UK. I communicate with scholarly and journalistic friends around the world. I'm part of the grassroots activist inteligentsia in the San Francisco Bay Area. Who, or what publication, have _you_ ever formally written for, who has ever had _you_ on their broadcast program, and who thus FORMALLY gives a damn what _you_ have to say?

Chris G.  05/01/2008 11:41 PM Report

You bore me.You won't address any of the topics I've raised.I don't blame you for that.You have nothing of value to say.I wouldn't last 5 mins with you?It wouldn't take me that long to expose you as a fraud, as your whole position on the matter is irrational, biased and frankly not well thought out.This is not uncommon looking at other members on this board.I feel sorry for your children(hopefully you don't have any), and I hope that they will have the intellectual honesty and intelligence to find their way in life despite the nonsense you must be bombarding them with at every opportunity.You are a lost cause, and I will no longer reply directly to your infantile rants.

--- Chris G.: "I AM black." --- Uh-huh... ---  05/01/2008 10:25 PM Report

Comment by Chris G. on Thursday, May 1 at 08:42 PM: "I AM black." || Uh-huh.... If one's race isn't important, or shouldn't matter, then why do you KEEP bringing it up OVER AND OVER (just like all the other "race isn't important" white liberals -- or posers). The MERITS of your comments --and YOUR LACK OF EVIDENCE -- *A COMPLETE QUOTE* from Wright -- which, of course, you REFUSE to supply, even when given/provided an hour-long interview link of Wright -- should stand -- OR, in your case, FALL -- on its own REGARDLESS of color! Isn't that what Obama is supposed to prove to people like you? This is just a RHETORICAL question, Chris G.: I don't really give a damn what your answer is. You're just another loudmouth barroom boor -- and now I've exposed you for all here to see, for exactly what you are. You wouldn't last *5 minutes* on the Charlie Rose show with me (and I've even been on the PBS Newshour before) before I intellectually shredded you into wimpering silence. UNLIKE YOU, I haven't been going around here waving a color flag and shouting about *what* color I am, as though that intellectually proves anything. --Joseph Anderson, Berkeley

Chris G.  05/01/2008 08:42 PM Report

I AM black.Hard to believe because I am HONEST about what I see in the BLACK COMMUNITY? This is ridiculous and I am offended that you suggest that I am not simply because I disagree with you.Not all black people have to fit your little mold to be black.You're a small minded ignoramus.NOW, tell me or link me to the evidence that Wright is using to backup his claim for whites spreading AIDS!!

Chris G.  05/01/2008 08:39 PM Report

Secondly, so much for Wright's comments being initially 'taken out of context' or being 'sound bytes'.He has re-iterated the same so-called sound byte taken out of context into perfectly grammatically sound sentences that carry the same message and sentiment.I haven't heard Obama's explanation for this, since he was one of those to quickly term the clips as being taken out of context in his public announcement and within debates.Obama knows how stupid you, most of the public, as well as the politically correct media are and therefore doesn't even have to admit that he was wrong.I don't think he was wrong, I think he was lying.

--- OH, BIG SURPRISE!... NO COMPLETE EVIDENCE. ---  05/01/2008 08:39 PM Report

Chris G.[whatever color you 'claimmm' to be\ on Thursday, May 1 at 07:48 PM: "I do not need to give you an exact quote." || All people like you know how to do is to just *bombastically* run your mouth. But let me quote the only thing you do have to say: "but with a great claim must come great evidence." Put up or shut up. You've got nothing *intellectual* to contribute. So, you're outta business with me. Go confab and BOND with some (OTHER) white racist comment poster around here. ---Joseph Anderson

Chris G.  05/01/2008 07:48 PM Report

I do not need to give you an exact quote.If you cannot read between the lines then you are a fool my friend.Plain and simple.I am black, and have an inside look as to how this discussion is carried on amongst blacks.I am not one to dispose of conspiracy theories quickly, but with a great claim must come great evidence.What great evidence does Wright have that whites are responsible for creating and spreading AIDS in Africa or elsewhere?Can you link me to it?Wright's speech is nothing more than inflammatory rhetoric, aimed at energizing the undereducated, ignorant and so-called 'victim' blacks who want somebody to blame for their troubles.Oh, and also to help line his pockets.You don't appear to be much of a critical thinker in my opinion.

--- Rev. Wright interview: Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS ---  05/01/2008 07:44 PM Report

Yahoo search: "bill moyers" + wright: the Wright interview link is the first hit.

--- Give us one COMPLETE QUOTE of Rev. Wright's   05/01/2008 07:24 PM Report

To: Chris G. on Thursday, May 1 at 05:14 PM --- Give us a _COMPLETE QUOTE_ of Wright's supposed "hate" --- DON'T give us a partial quote or soundbite --- for example, give us a COMPLETE QUOTE from the Bill Moyers' interview (it should be video archived online at Moyer's PBS TV website and everyone I know, Black or white, has been impressed).

Chris G.  05/01/2008 05:14 PM Report

Here's the real question(from an objective black atheist) that Mr. Rose and everybody else is afraid to ask. If the opinions are not prevalent in the 'Black Church'/community, then why was there so much applause while Wright was preaching his hate? I find it amazing how easy it is to find out for yourself that the black community DOES subscribe to Wright's belief system, maybe because black people are comfortable speaking openly around me. White people are very timid when it comes to issues of black racism, which should be condemned, and I think that this is a shame.

Joseph Anderson, Berkeley, CA  05/01/2008 04:44 PM Report

Barack's gonna have a WHOLLLE LOTTA CONDEMNING & DENOUNCING to do, against Black folks and their interests, to win, if he wins, the Democrat primary -- the closer he gets to the presidential election vote -- and ends up running against McCain!

TO: Joseph Anderson, Berkeley, CA; Apr 30 at 08:31 PM  05/01/2008 03:40 PM Report

Joseph (Wednesday, Apr 30 at 08:31 PM), I agree with what you wrote completely. I'd only add that in condemning Rev. Wright, Barack had his "Sista Souljah" moment - which is certainly a prerequisite to become the President. Barack's problem is that he quite admirably chose after Harvard to associate himself with black and poor people. He married a strong, intelligent black woman; he went to a black church, and he worked as an activist within the black community. The problem of course is that in order to become the President, Barack is going to have to "condemn AND denounce" every single one of these relationships. And he's certainly going to have to denouce his wife, because I don't see the corporate media allowing Michelle Obama into the White House without a fight. So its going to be a sad sight watching such a promising Black leader degrade himself in order to accomodate himself to a white supremicist political culture. That's why I started volunteering for Cynthia McKinney's campaign. Because what you said is certainly correct - movements are more important than Presidents, or, at least, they should be. Neoliberalism unfortunately seems to have turned that on its head, because the market so completely dominates and distorts movements and Presidents - hell, the whole political process from beginning to end. Perhaps we need Presidents and movements simultaeously: Barack must realize that he can't be his truest self without Reverend Wright (who taught Barack everything that he knows) and without the support of the Black community as a whole. Not to compare the two, but what where would Mandela be, today, without the active struggle of the ANC? Perhaps Reverend Wright still has one last lesson to teach Barack.

My only question is why you even bothered to write what you did on Charlie Rose's website? Charlie Rose is so self-consciously narrow-minded and elite (while barely pretending to be the opposite) that I question whether it is even possible for him to comprehend anything that makes sense outside of his topsy-turvy little bubble.

Kyle  05/01/2008 10:57 AM Report

Obama's backpedaling shows how little intellectual freedom and moral courage he's allowed by his handlers and paymasters.

- The idea that Wright's remarks are outside of the mainstream of black thought is just wrong, and Obama knows it. Bringing up the "anti-semitic Muslim" Farrakhan is an easy way to discredit Wright. Charlie's too careful to ask Cornel West, Boyce Watkins, or any prominent, credible black intellectual to demonstrate why Wright is right, and Obama is selling out.

- I'm one white male who recognizes that Black leaders â?? even Louis Farrakhan â?? are miles ahead of the white media, politicians and most civil leaders on these issues.

randall  05/01/2008 01:04 AM Report

Nobody wants to talk about black racism in this country. Barack Obama's mistake was not to specifically denounce Jeremiah Wright's comments as racist which they clearly were. The tragic irony here is that Obama will be taken down by racism - not white, but black racism.

Irish  04/30/2008 11:17 PM Report

Motherlodebeth - sounds like MoDo and Quinn doing their old Oedipus/Hamlet stuff yet again. Every few years they dust it off -most recently it was Bush and his dad and mom and now Obama and Wright. I am all for looking back to the classics, but could they move past Psycho-babble 101 already?

Joseph Anderson, Berkeley, CA  04/30/2008 08:37 PM Report

-

YO CHARLIE & CO.!: HOW DOES ONE MAINTAIN/CREATE *PARAGRAPHS* IN THEIR COMMENT POST ON THIS COMMENT PAGE?

-

Joseph Anderson, Berkeley, CA  04/30/2008 08:31 PM Report

THE TRUTH BLACKS DARE NOT SPEAK -- THE BLACK TONGUE-BITERS: NOW BRING OUT "THE GOOD NEGROES"

Well, looks like Obama ('The Mulatto Savior') might not be able to outrun his "Blackness" after all (he wouldn't even go to Memphis to commemorate MLK's death, unlike Hillary and McCain), in the DemoPublican/RepubliCrat "Good Cop, Bad Cop" presidential game. This game is in which *BOTH* political parties are military-industrial complex imperialist organizations -- both parties among the most violent political entities on earth: in the genocide of Native Americans, in the Philippines, in Korea, in Vietnam, in Panama, in Granada, in Haiti, etc., and now in Iraq, all that in addition to covert *anti-democratic* overthrows/wars in Africa, Latin America, and now in Iran. (September 11, 1973 was when the U.S. overthrew a democratic government in Chile, leading to the brutal murders of *30,000* people by the Pinochet regime.) Is Obama going to denounce most of Black America too? -- because Rev. Jeremiah Wright (in a city once called "the most racist city North of the South" and "the capital of racism in the North", then having very stiff competition from other American cities) hasn't said anything that Malcolm X or Martin Luther King didn't say (in words or substance, especially in the last few years of MLK's life, coming closer to Malcolm's political analysis) or that most of Black America doesn't believes (for example, about racism or U.S. foreign policy).

But, Obama said that the racism that Wright describe (in one of the most residentially, and religiously, segregated cities in America, again often having stiff competition in other American cities) was "in the past". We've just had -- yet again -- at least three more cops (even, "Black po-lice showin' out for the white cops", as Ice Cube rapped in "F tha Police") completely exonerated by a Northern Jim Crow judge, regarding yet another police hail-of-bullets lynching of a Black man.

While the Clintons (whom novelist Toni Morrison self-deludingly called "the first Black president" -- so you see we've already had one -- shows she's been around white folks at Princeton too long) are certainly slimy people (as must be evidenced by all their, I guess now former, friends, even from the first Clinton administration, who are supporting Obama) -- and who've been playing the race card since Bill's original presidential campaign attack on Sister Souljah -- an Obama presidency will be even worse for Black-America: white-America (even those whites who didn't/wouldn't vote for Obama and even those who vote/d for McCain) will be screaming that, "Racism is over!! The rest of you Blacks quit your damn whining: we don't owe you (in educational, vocational, economic and other social development programs) a damn thing anymore (not even the Katrina victims) -- like we said even after slavery (not even 40 acres and a mule)!!"

Hillary was right about one thing though: "Before he was in the Congress, Obama said that, had he been in the Congress, he would have voted to oppose going to war in Iraq. When Obama got into the Congress, he suddenly said that he wasn't sure how he would have voted. Later in three successive years, he's voted for $300 BILLION dollars [at least a minimum that the govt admits\ to *continue* the war in Iraq. So, where's the *change*???"

There are those who are self-deluded every four years; those who actually think that Obama, anymore than Hillary/McCain, is going to -- get this! -- "run the corporate special interests out of Washington", or (like the Democrats once promised -- Conyers even promised impeachment -- before last November's elections) to end the U.S. war/occupation/quagmire in Iraq (yet Barack, calling for even more troops, said that he would invade Pakistan too, and Hillary intimated that she would nuke Iran!); those who still think that a Democrat (or any mainstream politician) is capable of running (for office) one way and ruling another way -- that, "once he gets in, you'll see". Yes, we will, once again. But WHERE have we ever seen that happen in American history? Some people, like Earl Ofari Hutchison, even once believed this about U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas -- one of the most anti-Black justices since slavery -- and that once Thomas got a judicial appointment *for life*, he'd turn into Thurgood Marshall.

There's not enough time and space for me to point out the most important lessons of American history, but progressive MOVEMENTS have always been more important than presidents.

Obama is right about one thing (when he rebutted Hillary's attack on his lack of substance, by saying, "What's wrong with inspiration?"): America, in general, even in the worst of these times, just wants to *feel good* -- not to *think*. The Clintons are mad because Obama seemingly outfoxed them on empty rhetoric.

I say -- about believing in both Democrat candidates -- that if you want to just *feeel* good, then go get yourself a teddy bear. If you just want *inspiration*, then go get yourself a Hallmark card. And if you want trite *platitudes*, then just go get yourself a "Chicken Soup for the Soul" book.

Finally, let me say that Sally Quinn, of the Washington Post, has the nerve to say that Rev. Wright's reputation has been *ruined*: "There's something incredibly sad about what happened...; it's one of the saddest things in the world; all the work (of 36 years) he's done, his entire legacy, gone down the drain!; the shrinks will have a field day with this (like any Black person who's *serious* about social/global justice and human liberation, like the Black slaves who wanted liberation, Wright is 'obviously mentally ill')."

I have one question for Ms. Quinn: Rev. Wright's reputation is ruined with *whom*? Apparently, it's the standard of what only *white*-America -- and their media "Good Negroes" -- think that determine who's reputation is ruined. Marcus Garvey's reputation was supposedly ruined. Paul Robeson's reputation was supposedly ruined. Malcolm X's reputation was supposedly ruined. Adam Clayton Powell's reputation was supposedly ruined. Muhammad Ali's reputation was supposedly ruined. Even Martin Luther King's reputation was supposedly ruined. So, Ms. Quin, we'll let *history*, not just white-America, determine who's reputation is ruined.

Now, when will Charlie Rose have Rev. Wright on to speak for *himself* (go see Bill Moyers' extended TV interview with Wright, archived online) -- to talk *to* Wright, instead of *about* Wright -- instead of video soundbites, or just bringing "The Good Negroes" and Kumbaya white liberals on to shake their heads and "tisk-tisk-tisk..."

____________________________________________________________________

Joseph Anderson

occasional sociopolitical essayist

(see commentaries online)

Berkeley, CA

Diane Ingalls  04/30/2008 07:04 PM Report

Your selection of guests for the April 29th broadcast of a discussion about Obama and Wright was intelligent, thorough, (for the little time alloted), and wise. I've attended two black churches and yes, the sermons served the worshipers with messages pertinent to them; not the sermons I heard in sister churches in New England...but both attempted to address their parishioners' needs.

Rev. Dr. Floyd Flake's comments reflected the wisdom of his broad life experience. Thank you for continuing to broadcast points of view that cause one to think and to learn.

MotherLodeBeth  04/30/2008 06:28 PM Report

Don't post often but also wanted to share something Maureen Dowd had in her NYTimes piece titled Praying and Preying. She wrote that 'Having been deserted at age 2 by his father, Obama has now been deserted by the father-figure in his church, the man who inspired him to become a Christian, married him, dedicated his house, baptized his children, gave him the title of his second book and theme for his presidential run and worked on his campaign.'

This actually made me cry, since I have read so much about how many men father children and then bail on them, while good fathers do all they can to build a child up no matter their age. One would have hoped Jeremiah Wright who was a father figure could have see the bigger picture, and stayed quiet.

MotherLodeBeth  04/30/2008 06:01 PM Report

Having heard Jeremiah Wrights talk before the NAACP and then the Press Club (CNN and the CSPAN)I am surprised no media folks have commented (unless I missed it) that black are right brained and learn different from whites, Asian, Hispanics, Native Americans.

Sorta scary when one thinks how some will not want 'separate but equal' education and thus make Brown vs Board of Education a mute issue. Not to mention make the firing of Jimmy the Greek and others who said much the same thing as Jeremiah Wright. Is it just different because a black minister says it?

And my Bible says when it comes to people saying or doing things wrong that 'Vengeance is Mine Saith The Lord' (Romans 12;19), so why the need for Jeremiah Wrights to become so narcissistic? And remember he mentioned later this year having a new book coming out.

Ferdinand Gajewski, PhD  04/30/2008 05:44 PM Report

Well, hasn't America been sticking its nose into the business of other nations in ways that are counterproductive? Give the Rev. Wright a break. He speaks the truth, unlike our politicians who are spinning themselves silly . . .

Lena  04/30/2008 03:15 PM Report

Ms. Quinn deserves no air time.

Treb  04/30/2008 02:29 PM Report

Many whites will not admit it, but part of the appeal of Sen. Obama is that he does not come out of the U.S. slave culture. White mother, Kenyan father. Whites don't want to live through a Presidency hearing how whitey done the blacks wrong; calls for reparations; now it's their turn to get back, etc. Now Rev. Wright comes along and reminds the whites that Sen. Obama may have actually come out of that culture and they're not sure about Obama anymore. Rev. Wright will prove to be Sen. Obama's Wille Horton.

taria houvouras  04/30/2008 11:00 AM Report

There was a lynching without a rope by the media pure and simple. Rev. Wright is merely pointing that out. He is an exemplary citizen who has served his country now vilified by many who never served anyone except themselves. It is sad to say that we as a nation can not handle the truth. He has only told the truth. Too bad politics is so roten that Obama has to distance himself from that to continue viability. I think I will write in Wright's name when I vote for president.

R. Gipson  04/30/2008 10:21 AM Report

Okay...here we go. Seems to me, Ms. Quinn was one of the one somebody's who indeed...got it. Those of us who get it, realize that the Rev. Wright is not running for office...and in his own words, has said that Barak has nothing to do with the what and the why of his speeches. Those of us who get it, know that the Rev. Wright was pulled onto the center stage by those "forces" who insisted on making him the center of attention...and now he is. His last name has become, Obama's former pastor. Those of us who get it, realize that different does not mean deficient as Rev. Wright has said. We also get that Rev. Wright did not say that the government created the AIDs epidemic or inflicted Black folk with syphillis during the Tuskegee experiment. Rather, he expounded upon a saying we have in our culture which goes like this..."if you lie...you'll steal...if you steal...you'll kill". It's all about capabilities, and if the government intentionally used these Black people as labortory animals to see how long it takes syphillis to kill someone (and it did), and if the government set up a legal way to buy and sell people like ordingary farm animals (and it did)...then everybody ought to be able to understand our tendency to look for each conspiracy behind each devious act. Those of us who get it, realize that we as Black folk in this country have an obligation to never, ever forget and to teach our children to never, ever forget...just as the Jews teach their families to never, ever forget the Holocaust...lest we pass this way again. So if that upsets others view of the surface Kum-Ba-Ya relationships we experience in this country...so be it. Rev. Wright told the truth...and just as charity begins at home...so does judgement. We are so quick to condem, disown, distance and denounce people...but not practices. Those of us who get it, are very aware of the old Willie Lynch divide and conquer campaign...and we choose not to play. However, it is unfortunate that some of us still fall prey to the divide and conquer campaign. Does that mean all Black folk agree?...No, but we who do not fall prey to the divide and conquer campaign, agree to disagree and in the meantime, as we disagree...agree to do no harm. Finally, for those who think that the Rev. Wright is somehow hurting Obama's campaign...let's just be real...those who don't care for Obama...were never going to vote for him anyway...for any number of reasons...and the Rev. Wright is not one of them.

Carol J  04/30/2008 09:57 AM Report

I agree witb Todd 50% or more do not believe Obama is qualified to be President of the United States or any other country at this time. He is in this because 99 & 44% of men do not want a woman for President. To Charlie I am not thrilled with any of the candidates that are left behindd!!!! So on voting day I am wriiting in Charles Pete Rose (this is correct?) for President of the United States. I will watch this program later today on one of the re-broadcasts. Take Care

Chris Free  04/30/2008 06:47 AM Report

it would do good for more good people to condemn more than they

are -- understanding only serves to justify the bad parts --

it's worse than trying to understand -- people know there

was a lot of silver lining in what mr. obama was trying to

do and in the best good pieces of liberation theology with

respect to political, social, and material oppression --

but most of the silver was tarnished under the sulfur

of bloated egocentrism, rhetorical dishonesty, and

pernicious ignorance -- people want to understand how

sulfur overpowered oxygen to tarnish all that silver --

criticism would only point out the obvious discolor. brimstone.

Tom S  04/30/2008 06:09 AM Report

I thought the discussion was excellent. However, I am disturbed by what I took to be Sally Quinn mis-speaking about Tuskeegee. I'd have to review the transcript, but she seemed to state that the "Gov't created AIDS" claim had traction because they had infected the Tuskeegee patients.

I am pretty certain they did no such thing, but rather allowed infected African-Americans to go untreated in order to observe the course of the disease. Immoral, unethical, reprehensible, but not what Sally said...that they intentionally infected them.

Perhaps a minor point, but in this climate, we need to have prominent journalists (and everyone else) be more careful with their facts.

David Hamber  04/30/2008 03:33 AM Report

There was too much bending over backward to "understand" the Reverend Wright and not enough honest criticism of his bloated egocentrism, his rhetorical dishonesty, and pernicious ignorance.

Larry   04/30/2008 03:10 AM Report

Tonites show, being the first time I stopped in to view, was very interesting but extremely disturbing. It only showed me that there still are 2 Americas. There is the America that has been desperately fighting for the equality for all races, an America that tries to work with, and is trying to be accepting of everyone's differences, an America that bends over backwards in being sensitive to others struggles and an America that is willing to over react to, and punish, the comedic flubs of white men in the likes of a Mr. D. Imus. While the other America unashamedly still feels justified in spewing its own separatist racist hatred and neatly wrap it in the name of the "African American struggle".

If Rev. Wright wishes to take the stage as Ms. Quinn indicates then have him join the likes of Michael Richards and let him be judged equally, or more so because Wright is no comedian. He is supposed to be a man of the cloth. But if one truly listens, he sound more like a modern day Nazi working up the crowd to be excepting of his twisted views.

Why is it that we should be accepting of a man that says Whites clap one way while Blacks clap another? That Whites are "Object learners" and Blacks are "Subject learners"? With these new truths pointed out by the Reverend does Jimmy the Greek come to mind? Yet this man is still allowed to have a platform to speak from and to profit by it as well. And all at the expense of Mr. Obama.

But equally disturbing is the platform give to Sally Quinn to speak for "white America". Did she not come off as a self hating, guilt ridden, upper class liberal looking down at White America and their WASP-ie churches. Now I don't know about all the other "white" churches, but our muli-cultural Lutheran Church has always welcomed all races and backgrounds with open arms and as far as I know not one Lutheran church places a clarifying statement in front of it, unlike some African-American churches, by calling itself the "First German Lutheran Church of God". Ms. Quinn should step into a church in NYC or Jersey City and bask in the rainbow of color and take in God's true message of brotherhood and inclusion!

As for tonites's subject....I fear that Barack can say bye-bye to the bid thanks to Wright's 15 min. of fame......

Chis Free  04/30/2008 01:36 AM Report

quinn wasn't saying rev. wright was trying to claim 15 minutes of fame -- quinn's comment was a bit deeper -- she was saying rev. wright wanted his dignity back -- unfortunately, rev. wright's entire message is being drowned-out but his own delivery and over-the-top interjections like the aids comment -- it would be like your doctor discussing your heart transplant while interjecting that the medical industry is out to kill you -- while that may be true, or not, you really don't want to hear that while something so serious and important is being discussed! -- and while rev. wright is drowning out his message he's also, sadly, drowning senator obama's election.

D. Young  04/30/2008 01:07 AM Report

Ms. Quinn totally missed the point. Rev. Wright is not trying to somehow reclaim 15 minutes in fame.

The insistence by corporate media to play 20 seconds of video well out of context was the catalyst for this. He is not trying to bring Obama down, but defend himself.

But you also overlooked a very important historical fact: the black church got started because whites did not want blacks worshipping with them and - when blacks built their own church, whites burned it down. White churches preached from their pulpits that Africans were inferior humans and supported slavery.

Liberation theology in the black church is born out of this as a way to keep a down trodden people uplifted.

Rev. Wright has been villified and if you ask most African Americans they will tell you that nothing that Rev. Wright has said is untrue.

If you were true journalists, you would look at his entire messages; more importantly, you would study the origins of the religious tradition in the black community.

Also, I find your comment that the style of preaching "was like performance theater".

Why have you not villified Bush for lieing this country into a war that has killed over 4,000 people. Seems to me that is more of an outrage than anything Rev. Wright has said.

Chris Free  04/30/2008 12:52 AM Report

when man determined to destroy;

himself he picked the was;

of shall and finding only why;

smashed it into because. -- e. e. commings

Carol  04/30/2008 12:27 AM Report

I commented the last time you needed to address this issue with Rev. Flake that Obama's should have confronted this issue when the campaign started instead of just wishing it would go away quietly. Today Obama did what he needed to do months ago. The Village Voice had already published Wright's remarks way before YouTube hit the net so it was bound to catch up to him. Now it's just up to the voters, especially the undecided, to believe Obama is sincere and not just "another politician" looking for votes. However, if Wright continues to chase him with these so-called lectures, and I understand he has also made remarks against Israel that Charlie ignored in his questioning (as if that doesn't effect a block of voters), it is going to be very hard for Obama to stay on point. And, for the first time, those who called on Hillary to quit (like the Times) may be thanking their lucky stars she didn't. I would imagine many behind-the-scenes people are begging Wright to lay low and not let his ego be the cornerstone of the Republican campaign. But again I have to ask, why do front-running Democrats make these elections their's to lose?

Todd  04/29/2008 11:52 PM Report

What a mouthpiece for the Obama campaign.

Totally useless. Turned it off.

You're losing it Charlie. Too many blows to the head?

More to talk about these days than your favorite candidate.

50% of Americans do not find him qualified. At all.