Charlie Rose

Cindy Warner  10/14/2008 05:59 PM Report

Read The Forever War by Dexter Filkins. He's about my age and a lifelong runner, he ran even in Iraq and Afghanistan to save his sanity . . . here are some links and my review.

www.DexterFilkins.net. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/07/DDOK139KFL.DTL

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec08/filkins_10-01.html

An hour long radio talk with callers asking him things live in San Francisco.

http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R809241000

This is an hour long appearance at the Google office, he shows some nice photos that are not necessarily in the book.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fa-oXcft0RY&feature=user

This is himself articulating.http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1610 Shlounik habibi,

Finished first reading of The Forever War just now after picking it up in San Francisco on my bike Thursday night. Took leap of faith and paid the $25 based on the integrity of the groups and media you have been talking to as well as that of the NY Times. You get what you pay for. So, Dexter, Shukran jazeelan.

I feel that I have read the diary of a friend, who spoke to me as a peer and gave me some credit and refrained from gratuitous violence. I am starved for answers or at least information and feared being traumatized beyond Katrina and the economy by war stories. I live like a nun in the suburbs and I don't even have a car, I ride a bike that survived Katrina.

So I particularly appreciated your brief moments of comic relief so to speak. I laughed out loud about page 196, Ash in the outhouse transmitting his photos and also at him screaming at you as he ran through the field of shit after a false lead. To be fair, who would ever guess what was going on in the outhouse though. You taught me in the Middle East things are not what they seem, there is a dual universe.

Not what they seem especially when the primitive meets technology and brutality--e.g. the DBIED(s) of page 173. Or when you find that Pearl Land is Pear Land , not a gem but a humble piece of fruit. What can you say when you work in a place when even the geese seem confused . . . but they get back into formation after readjusting in flight (page 205).

The producer of Survivor (in Los Angeles by way of the English army) said you don't have to have the specifics planned step by step, you just have to be like a plane in flight, readjusting as things happen in the air to head for your goal again.

In any event. You have a gift for juxtaposition then again, who is to say it is irony after all. It's a new reality.

Speaking of the mayhem, one of the funnier moments (more so in hindsight probably) would be the 6000 marines breaking into somebody's house and using it as a latrine. That's one non-violent means of ending a war that's based on religious nobility and selflessness--just use degradation and humiliation . . . who would ever expect this maneuver? I can just see them crying out, Laish Laish Habibi . . . when showing your knees was bad enough.

But seriously, I did get some thoughts organized as to the linear progression of the Middle East . Russia invades Afghanistan and we save the Afghans from the brutality of communism but we leave too early and the lessons are forgotten. The area ends up in chaos and the Taliban rises to establish order. I'm thinking demographically there are a lot of broken families and orphans which give rise to the gangs and fiefdoms and their cruelty. Yet they mix and intermarry . . . then as you say there's the post-Saddamian implosion. Chalabi returns from exile and tells Iraqis to liberate themselves by holding the election even though he has been disassociated after all those years away. Concurrently there's the notion that the population is so tough a leader needs a whip. But how far down is the Mid East to mainly women, children and old folk? Yet the children are being taught, the Koran mandates the killing of nonbelievers? Will the fighting die down, literally?

So maybe borders will be redrawn. Wasn't it the British at the turn of the century that redrew the borders for their own administrative ends? Then the Brits withdrew slowly and according to promise and plan? That was peaceful enough but created the vacuum for the Americans to enter. Do the Iraqi's want a plan? How can you reach a goal with no plan?

Let's leave the embassy--everybody has embassies and San Francisco has more than any other city. Let's leave things the Iraqis like such as American movies, music, the World Cup (didn't that come with the British a century before?) . . . let's give them whatever it was that got Jill Carroll and her pink hair released in three months . . . diplomatic things.

But to wrap up with a song of musical mayhem set in London long ago . . . here's Sweeney Todd, a demon barber created by corruption and brutality and coveting of what is rightfully another's . . .

Johnny Depp sings upon his return to London after being transported to Australia as a criminal:

There's a hole in the world like a great black pit

and the vermin of the world inhabit it

and it's morals aren't worth

what a pig could spit

and it goes by the name of London

At the top of the hole are the privileged few

Making mockery of the vermin in the lower zoo

Turning beauty into filth and greed

I too have sailed the world and seen it's wonders

for the cruelty of men is as wondrous as Peru

but there's no place like London . . .

There's a hole in the world like a great black pit

and it's filled with people who are filled with shit

and the vermin of the world inhabit it . . .

So Dexter, enjoy your beautiful autumn runs in New York and Florida and Cambridge . Let me know what dreams you are sorting out in your head as you go. Thanks so much for making me feel my trust is well placed and my time invested well. I had meant to finish your book by November 4th but it was captivating.

Well done.

Cheers,

Cindy Warner

California

Cindy Warner  10/14/2008 05:59 PM Report

Read The Forever War by Dexter Filkins. He's about my age and a lifelong runner, he ran even in Iraq and Afghanistan to save his sanity . . . here are some links and my review.

www.DexterFilkins.net. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/07/DDOK139KFL.DTL

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec08/filkins_10-01.html

An hour long radio talk with callers asking him things live in San Francisco.

http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R809241000

This is an hour long appearance at the Google office, he shows some nice photos that are not necessarily in the book.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fa-oXcft0RY&feature=user

This is himself articulating.http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1610 Shlounik habibi,

Finished first reading of The Forever War just now after picking it up in San Francisco on my bike Thursday night. Took leap of faith and paid the $25 based on the integrity of the groups and media you have been talking to as well as that of the NY Times. You get what you pay for. So, Dexter, Shukran jazeelan.

I feel that I have read the diary of a friend, who spoke to me as a peer and gave me some credit and refrained from gratuitous violence. I am starved for answers or at least information and feared being traumatized beyond Katrina and the economy by war stories. I live like a nun in the suburbs and I don't even have a car, I ride a bike that survived Katrina.

So I particularly appreciated your brief moments of comic relief so to speak. I laughed out loud about page 196, Ash in the outhouse transmitting his photos and also at him screaming at you as he ran through the field of shit after a false lead. To be fair, who would ever guess what was going on in the outhouse though. You taught me in the Middle East things are not what they seem, there is a dual universe.

Not what they seem especially when the primitive meets technology and brutality--e.g. the DBIED(s) of page 173. Or when you find that Pearl Land is Pear Land , not a gem but a humble piece of fruit. What can you say when you work in a place when even the geese seem confused . . . but they get back into formation after readjusting in flight (page 205).

The producer of Survivor (in Los Angeles by way of the English army) said you don't have to have the specifics planned step by step, you just have to be like a plane in flight, readjusting as things happen in the air to head for your goal again.

In any event. You have a gift for juxtaposition then again, who is to say it is irony after all. It's a new reality.

Speaking of the mayhem, one of the funnier moments (more so in hindsight probably) would be the 6000 marines breaking into somebody's house and using it as a latrine. That's one non-violent means of ending a war that's based on religious nobility and selflessness--just use degradation and humiliation . . . who would ever expect this maneuver? I can just see them crying out, Laish Laish Habibi . . . when showing your knees was bad enough.

But seriously, I did get some thoughts organized as to the linear progression of the Middle East . Russia invades Afghanistan and we save the Afghans from the brutality of communism but we leave too early and the lessons are forgotten. The area ends up in chaos and the Taliban rises to establish order. I'm thinking demographically there are a lot of broken families and orphans which give rise to the gangs and fiefdoms and their cruelty. Yet they mix and intermarry . . . then as you say there's the post-Saddamian implosion. Chalabi returns from exile and tells Iraqis to liberate themselves by holding the election even though he has been disassociated after all those years away. Concurrently there's the notion that the population is so tough a leader needs a whip. But how far down is the Mid East to mainly women, children and old folk? Yet the children are being taught, the Koran mandates the killing of nonbelievers? Will the fighting die down, literally?

So maybe borders will be redrawn. Wasn't it the British at the turn of the century that redrew the borders for their own administrative ends? Then the Brits withdrew slowly and according to promise and plan? That was peaceful enough but created the vacuum for the Americans to enter. Do the Iraqi's want a plan? How can you reach a goal with no plan?

Let's leave the embassy--everybody has embassies and San Francisco has more than any other city. Let's leave things the Iraqis like such as American movies, music, the World Cup (didn't that come with the British a century before?) . . . let's give them whatever it was that got Jill Carroll and her pink hair released in three months . . . diplomatic things.

But to wrap up with a song of musical mayhem set in London long ago . . . here's Sweeney Todd, a demon barber created by corruption and brutality and coveting of what is rightfully another's . . .

Johnny Depp sings upon his return to London after being transported to Australia as a criminal:

There's a hole in the world like a great black pit

and the vermin of the world inhabit it

and it's morals aren't worth

what a pig could spit

and it goes by the name of London

At the top of the hole are the privileged few

Making mockery of the vermin in the lower zoo

Turning beauty into filth and greed

I too have sailed the world and seen it's wonders

for the cruelty of men is as wondrous as Peru

but there's no place like London . . .

There's a hole in the world like a great black pit

and it's filled with people who are filled with shit

and the vermin of the world inhabit it . . .

So Dexter, enjoy your beautiful autumn runs in New York and Florida and Cambridge . Let me know what dreams you are sorting out in your head as you go. Thanks so much for making me feel my trust is well placed and my time invested well. I had meant to finish your book by November 4th but it was captivating.

Well done.

Cheers,

Cindy Warner

California

harry m  09/30/2008 12:46 AM Report

This interview with Hunt and Norris was incompetent. Nowhere was mentioned that the DEMOCRATS took over Congress in 06 with a

promuise of change. Where have they been?

It's my understanding that the Republicans tried to pass tighter regulation over Fannie and Freddie. It was vetoed by the Democrats.

Charlie Rose. Where is your depth of appreciation of the issues. It becomes less worthwhile to watch.

deh  09/30/2008 12:28 AM Report

I really appreciate the content that DF has shared here and (far more) in his articles. But at the risk of being thought trivial, I have to say it was really, really hard to listen to the first 10 minutes b/c of the "you know" repetitions every ten seconds, which got slightly better when he actually talked about events other than his own perceptions and self. I teach so this is familiar behavior among my students. But PLEASE try to use your hard-earned 'celebrity' to speak well as well as to write well! Thanks for the reports on the ground and for telling the truth as you see it.

Pat Podell  04/16/2008 09:28 PM Report

This was one of the most informative programs on the war in IRAQ discussed with two journalists from a very liberal newspaper. I congratulate you, Charlie, on this openand honest discussion. - This makes me believe(as I would like to believe) that some journalists can be independent, open-minded, and very thoughtful in providing the history and present facts as they see them after serving several years in Iraq. This was a rare evening. I appreciate your ability to bring guests from various "sides of the aisle" together to help all of us become more informed and hopefully more open-minded in our ability to think independently.

jca  04/14/2008 08:43 PM Report

To the first commentor, fg: we went to war for the oil, for Israel, and for the US military-industrial- congressional complex.

We'll never leave: think about it.

kamt  04/14/2008 07:35 PM Report

Charlie, please, we need more credible journalists, not less credible, like Burns.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=22&media_view_id=10046

KT  04/14/2008 03:54 PM Report

So much time, so many blowhards.

"Our new Sunni friends insist on being paid for their loyalty," General William Odom told the Senate Foreign Relations committee last Wednesday. He cited one estimate that the U.S. military is paying a local strongman $250,000 a day to keep the peace in a 36-square mile swath of the country. "Remember, we do not own these people, we rent them â?? and they can break the lease at any moment."

Mary  04/13/2008 11:43 PM Report

These intelligent, hard-working men are, in the end, apologists for American foreign policy. It is shocking to me, given what they have seen in Iraq, that they could continue to support the "American enterprise in Iraq." How can we have faith in the news we read in this country, if this is what the nation's top paper has to offer?

mhadli  04/13/2008 11:11 PM Report

western policy makers, soldiers, reporters don't really know what they are talking about. leaving green zone and visiting Hadifa for a few days does not teach anything useful.

on PBS Frontline, i see soldiers and reports use translators. and for humour, the translators make jokes at the americans, or translate falsely. i enjoy schools and listening to academic talks like this. but reality. and usa has this problem never ends.

EWard  04/12/2008 12:13 AM Report

The comments of Burns and Filkins are more credible than some of the hacks posting on this thread. I have followed their reporting from Iraq, and they are not apologists for this war. The Sunnis were fed up with al Qaeda in Iraq and started to fight back. If you read the writings of counterinsurgency expert David Kilcullen, the "Anbar Awakening" was a surprise. As Kilcullen states "Kinship trumps religion" in Iraq. Removing the enemy away from a civilian population could not have happened without the help of the Sunni tribal leaders. One more thing, despite all the tragedy in Iraq, the majority of Iraqis would never go back and live under Saddam's regime. They were so demoralized by his brutality.

lenora shrewsbury  04/11/2008 11:56 PM Report

Let's hear more "out of the box" questions concerning the War. Examples:

Do you think Al Qaeda & Bin Laden plan to destroy us via the damage done to our military & economic power by this War?

What is the moral responsibility of the Iraqis to the United States?

If we stay there what plans would you suggest to help pay for staying and where will the troops come from?

If this IS Bush's War why should American tax payers foot the bill?

Why aren't the Iraqis using their oil money to pay for this "help" we are giving them?

If the U.S. withdraws which countries do you think will help Iraq and how?

Do you think Bush plans to do everything possible to leave office saying we are succeeding there & can then say whatever happens after that is not his Administrations fault?

Jeff F  04/11/2008 06:17 PM Report

Great discussion!

Charlie Rose, John Burns and Lester Filkins on Iraq with side comments on the Pretaeus hearings! It was informative, sober, balanced and realistic. It may not please some with ideological or partisan positions but it probably closer to accurate than any of the idealogs.

Brian Meighan  04/11/2008 05:36 PM Report

To echo some prescient comments, these journalists seem to have collective amnesia. The lies got America into Iraq and everything since is a lie too. Go to Iraq and see the scope of devastation America has set off with Shock and Awe.

ra  04/11/2008 05:32 PM Report

A remarkably informative and nuanced discussion. Burns is the best of the journalistic community and his affirmation of Filkins raises him in my estimate. The cautious, non-ideological, layered nature of this discussion will prevent it from being what it should be: a centerpiece for any discussion about Iraq. Ideologues want slogans.

Concerned Canadian  04/11/2008 02:12 PM Report

It was mentioned a few posts back that you would serve your viewers and the U.S citizens better if you interviewed 6 Iraq civilians by bringing them to the United States. Good idea but it would be better if you interview them in Baghdad, Bassra or Falluja in their own killing fields.

cheetahbeast  04/11/2008 01:00 PM Report

I join the chorus of those who are outraged and mystified at what passes for a balanced assessment of the reality of Iraq. Two self-satisfied supporters of the administration's policies, who depend on this administration's patronage to further their jolly careers, congratulate themselves on their courage and experience. The delusional arrogance is overwhelming.

What is a concerned citizen to do? The unmentioned, tragic facts are so vast and dark, and they have been so systematically kept from the public. Whatever your arithmetic, you can be assured that tens of thousands of innocent civilians have been killed directly by our forces. Have you ever seen a single media picture of an Iraqi civilian who was killed by US forces?

Wholesale slaughter, torture, famine and disease; the destruction of a culture and the sowing of chaos for profit-these are the legacies of the Iraq invasion, and yet we hear this endless chatter about "boots on the ground" and "troop levels" and pseudo-technical claptrap from all these adolescent amateur strategists.

It's time to hear from the Iraqi people, Mr. Rose. Find six of them, ordinary people who now live in Iraq. Fly them to New York and hear what they have to say. It would serve your viewers better. Have the courage to break this wall of silence about the realities of Iraq. We are tired of funded filters like Burns and Filkins.

Judithod  04/11/2008 11:47 AM Report

Just ran through the comments, and it's apparent that a number of people watched the interview with Burns and Filkins via the lenses of their biases. Their responses are indicative of why no reasoned dialogues are occurring in this country. I applaud Burns and Filkins for their reporting, their genuine interest in attempting to relay what they have observed, and I applaud Charlie Rose for another probing interview.

Hunter S Thompson  04/11/2008 10:59 AM Report

This was completely disgusting! Every word out of these 3 men's mouths were how horrible and stupid the USA is; how horrible & stupid US troops are; how brave, gallant, supremely intelligent and righteous journalists are (themselves included). I am through watching Charlie Rose.

Concerned Canadian  04/11/2008 09:42 AM Report

The tragegy of all of this is why the U.S got into this mess in the first place, their failure there, and their inability to get out.

A distant tragedy is that the United States of American learned nothing from their failure in Vietnam. And repeated it, again in part due to a failed foreign policy.

Paul  04/11/2008 08:27 AM Report

I have kept myself informed since March 19, 2003, daily on the subject of Iraq by reading Tom's Dispatch, TalkingPointsMemo, Salon.com, The Nation, The Independent, Harper's and Al jazeera. But now I cannot understand why these two reporters would say these things. Why can't I understand what is happening in Iraq? Why, why?

Tyler  04/11/2008 03:09 AM Report

We really need to be realistic as we sort ourselves out of this mess in Iraq. The last words Saddam heard, apart from his own final prayers, were 'Mouqtada! Mouqtada!' It was neither 'Al-Maliki! Al-Maliki!' nor 'Thanks be to Bush' and these Great United States of America. Burns said something worth noting. If it is indeed true that the great majority of people want to live together, we should stop being surprised that some Iraqis do not want to kill their Shia brothers to further the interests of foreigners. On one hand, we praise their national pride, on the other, we are urging one Shia to go kill another. Would we have ever had peace in Northern Ireland today if we had encouraged David Trimble to go kill Ian Paisley and his followers? Absurd. We should stop fantasizing this way. Dexter Filkins is spot on. I would put it this way: Why would we expect warring parties to do what we ourselves are reluctant or not prepared to do: i.e. talk to and reconcile with our adversaries in Iran and Syria. In addition to the efforts of our brave men and women in uniform or otherwise, I would like to suggest that we have succeeded with Sunni tribes in part because their paymasters are in Saudi Arabia, with whom our President holds hands and performs tribal dances on occasion. They are totalitarian and undemocratic Wahabists who have promoted and financed madrassa that teach a form of western-hating Islam. So similarly, we will never succeed in southern Iraq without also holding hands and doing Mullah dances in Qom.

leah  04/11/2008 01:06 AM Report

Please don't listen to the hysterics. We are lucky to have a show like this, and I am grateful for Charlie Rose. Good questions, good information, good interview. Thanks for yet another.

On a junket  04/11/2008 12:10 AM Report

Two boys on a junket...work for Aluminium Tube Times. How embarrassing. Sounded just like a couple of Brits, circa 1860, complimenting one another on their courage, over tea, slapping backs, chatting about empire. Their romantically involved with their adventure on the backs of our dead kids.

Tim  04/10/2008 11:56 PM Report

"So, it could come out OK?"

Charlie, since our invasion 82, 000 Iraqi Civilians (of course that is the low estimate, we all know that respected public health scholars have calculated different numbers) have been killed. That is 0,3 % of the entire population! Here is some perspective. The equivalent number for the US would be 800.000. That is 9/11 260 times over! You know as good as anybody what a single 9/11 has meant to this country. Can we not even come up with the phantasy to even consider that the death of innocent CIVILIANS over there has the same impact it had on us here?? "So, it could come out OK?" How many refugees did you have in New York after 9/11? Iraq has 4,7 million. 16% of the population! Ok, we haven't had a war on our soil for 150 years, so it's tough to imagine what being a refugee means. But we are compassionate and intelligent, so let's try. Imagine, you have to leave your beloved New York behind, together with all your friends, all your money, your lovely home and all the things you own, the work that you need more than anything else in the world. All this you swap for a strange place, in a foreign land with no means to support yourself. "So, it could come out OK?" Charlie, if the killing stopped tomorrow 100%, all the refugees were back where they want to be on Friday, all the infrastructure restored to where it was before we invaded Iraq on Saturday, it WOULD NOT BE OK. The five years of horror wrought upon every Iraqi citizen cannot be returned. The dead will haunt the survivors for the rest of their lives. Charlie, what happened to our ability to empathize with fellow human beings? What has happened to our humanity?

jeff  04/10/2008 11:39 PM Report

Toward the end Charlie asked the reporters why they go and what made them want to keep going back to Iraq (or something to that effect)...I've watched most, if not every time John Burns has been on the show and on one of them he stated clearly that this Iraq War is the story of his lifetime and that he couldn't miss it...I think what motivates them is the "glory"...they were lucky enough to have come back in one piece with their respective bags jammed full of "glory"...and I think that "glory" tends to distort views...I served as an infantryman in the first Gulf War, the one where we soldiers (and the U.S.) were lucky enough to have returned in one piece, "glorious" with distorted views...I think it would help if we soldiers, we public, we reporters, we U.S. citizens strived more for humility and less for "glory"...I am deeply saddened.

MTWelch  04/10/2008 07:51 PM Report

Watching three pleased-with-themselves men sitting cozy and comfortable discussing the situation in Iraq made me so angry. I have kept myself informed since March 19, 2003, daily on the subject of Iraq by reading Tom's Dispatch, TalkingPointsMemo, Salon.com, The Nation, The Independent, Harper's and Al jazeera. If I had not, I could have been lulled into their comfortable aura. But they lied by omission.

For example:

When John Burns talked about the malevolent Iraqis who killed the 4 security agents in Fallujah, he failed to mention the US military atrocity that occurred before that. He failed to mention that it was a vengeance killing for a massacre committed by the occupying forces one year earlier.

Namely

"On the evening of April 28, 2003, a crowd of 200 people defied a curfew imposed by the Americans and gathered outside a secondary school used as a military HQ to demand its reopening. Soldiers from the 82nd Airborne stationed on the roof of the building opened fire on the crowd, resulting in the deaths of 17 civilians and the wounding of over 70. [6\. The events leading up to the incident are disputed. American forces claim they were responding to gunfire from the crowd, while the Iraqis involved deny this version, although they conceded that rocks were thrown at the troops. A protest against the killings two days later was also fired upon by US troops resulting in two more deaths."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah

There were other too numerous to mention.

The discussion contrasted sharply with CNN correspondent Michael Ware who reports from Baghdad. As Ware would likely say about their optimistic assessments, "it was a waste of oxygen."

heyubob  04/10/2008 07:51 PM Report

Gee thanks, One pro war, pro status quo (Burns) vs. one we must stay the course Filkin (4th rate general supporter (Gen. Betray us), plus a Gadfly (Rose). Not very fourth estate kinda stuff, shame on you, cowards.

Jerry  04/10/2008 06:34 PM Report

I'm greatly disappointed by Charlie's ongoing bias against liberals and progressives when it comes to booking guests.

When will Charlie have Alexander Cockburn, Patrick Cockburn, Chalmers Johnson, Gore Vidal, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Barbara Ehrenreich, Laura Flanders, John R. McArthur, Lewis Lapham, Cornel West, Joe Conason, or David Corn on his program.

I'd respect Charlie if he'd stop being a shill for Republicans and neoconservatives

Rick Stambaugh  04/10/2008 05:30 PM Report

The April 21, 2008 issue of The Nation contains an article by Nir Rosen called Inside the Surge. Mr. Rosen speaks Arabic and has been traveling within Iraq, sometimes incognito, and reporting from there for the past five years. He presents a largely different picture of what is going on than Mr. Filkins and Mr. Burns. I suggest Charlie Rose read the article. He might want to interview him on the show, either alone or with Mr. Filkins or Mr. Burns at the table.

CCampos  04/10/2008 04:57 PM Report

Mr. Rose's and his guests' glib, self-centered indifference to the death and suffering of non-Americans comes off as a kind of Attention Deficit Disorder.

We invaded Iraq to get Saddam's WMDs and break his partnership with the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 --not to reduce violent deaths and sectarian killing among Iraqis. This military mission was exposed as a canard over 4 years ago.

Since then, US taxpayers have paid in lives and treasure to re-build the Iraq infrastructure we paid in lives and treasure to destroy during the invasion. We have sacrificed --and continue to sacrifice-- additional family members fighting the Shia Iraqis we supposedly "liberated" from Saddam, and are shelling out billions more to bribe them from attacking us and killing each other.

Nearly one-third of the entire Iraq population has been displaced or killed and vast areas, including Baghdad, have ethnically cleansed. Anyone with the education, money or means has fled, and armed ethnic militias control their respective turf.

Is anyone surprised violence has slightly decreased when so few are left to cause mayhem? The level of violence is still outrageous; by nearly every objective measure, Iraqis are worse off than they were before the invasion.

Mr. Burns sounds like someone who gained 200 pounds binge-eating describing how impressed he is after dropping of 5 pounds after a 9-month diet.

Yet pundits like Mr. Rose and his guests will turn around and wonder why non-Americans regard us as arrogant, opportunistic and indifferent to the lives of foreigners.

Amy  04/10/2008 03:52 PM Report

A brilliant interview. It's a great example of why Charlie is the go to guy for information on Iraq, irrespective of one's personal feelings about the war. What makes the show better than any on television, Charlie's reliance on journalists who've been there, rather than politicians who's tendency is to spin the war depending on their need to satisfy their constituents views....... Both Filkins and Burns are to be commended for their courage, reportorial skills and most of all their humanitarian sensibilities.

Allyn  04/10/2008 03:23 PM Report

American forces will be in Iraq for the next hundred years, get used to it.

___|___

Look at the reality of history. We've been in Europe and Japan for over sixty years and we will be there another sixty because that is the only way to keep the peace.

___|___

Look at the American South as an example. The South has been occupied by American forces since the Civil War. We have been there for almost 150 years and we will have to maintain forces there forever. If America pulled out all its bases and forces from the South they would declare independence the next day, and we'd have to invade them once again.

___|___

If we can't even withdraw from the South, Europe or Japan, how can anyone ever expect us to leave Iraq. Bitter as it may be to accept, the cost is too great to withdraw.

justthefactsplz  04/10/2008 02:49 PM Report

Extraordinary interview by Charlie once again. This is a must watch for anyone interested in on-the-ground reality from 2 amazing journalists from the NY times. All of the talking heads on CNN, MSNBC & FOX can get a thorough education here. Surprised by the outburst of those leaving derogatory comments regarding Filkins & Burns. Their written reports in the NYT over the past few years have been honestly critical of the admin's handling of the Irag mess. Just give us the facts please, not partisan blather - any they provide just that. Bravo.

Jim Thurber  04/10/2008 02:11 PM Report

Consider the source: John Burns has been a consistent supporter and cheerleader for the war in Iraq. Basically, he's a dependable mouthpiece for the Bush Administration. Ditto Charlie Rose. The real story, not told by Burns is the fact that when 1/3 of the entire Iraqi population has been killed or displaced and Baghdad has been ethnically cleansed (75% Shiite population)who is left to kill? Who is left to cause violence? Take the Sunni insurgents and pay them millions not to shoot us (for awhile). Violence dramatically reduced? There's a sucker born every minute and David Kurtz is apparently one of them.

Grandmère Mimi  04/10/2008 01:11 PM Report

I didn't hear either man mention the abuse and lack of support of the US troops in Iraq by their superiors. I didn't hear them mention that our warriors are worn out, that their equipment is worn out, that our Army and National Guard are being destroyed. I did not hear them mention that the present level of troop numbers are unsustainable.

What I hear from Petraeus is give us another year, or two, or three, or however long we need. I'm hearing echoes of the pleadings in the midst of that other not-so-distant, but not-to-be-named war. I hear these two men supporting Petraeus.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Dorian  04/10/2008 11:36 AM Report

I have just watched theatrics in action...by once pro's turned amateurs! Their names are John Burns & Dexter Filkins.

Are their present cushy jobs affecting them so much that they cannot assimilate, take in, digest, understand what they have been witness to over these past 4-5 years?

Of all the people we should have been able to turn to in order to make any kind of sense out of the blood bath in Iraq,it was them. But NO!

Instead they gave us sweet music & soft drinks to create a mood of "everything going well".

I am sure I was not the only one jumping up & down & yelling at the TV screen! What madness!!!

Did they really think we( all the "we's"), would buy this sop? Never happen!

John & Dexter gave nonstop excuses why we would HAVE TO stay in Iraq a dozen more years or more.

They did not mention money. Our money! U.S. dollars! You know, money to pay for the very existence of United States?!

Our money is continuing to flow into the Iraq War machine. Money we have to borrow. Money we no longer have. We are either borrowing it or making it. United States is financially bankrupt. We are sliding down a slope so steep, so dangerous that the bottom may well be "Depression". Not Recession....

That was the element they completely missed ( or avoided) in discussing "all" the variables.

Why we need to remain....no, must stay in Iraq!

They ticked off the lists of reasons like I count how much money I have left to eat on for the month!

What bilge. What idiocy! What piffle! What an insult to us as listeners!!!

I have wrestled with what answer is the "right" answer. Do we get out of Iraq immediately, or remain to clean up what we created.

John Burns & Dexter Filkins never wrestled with this basic, fundamental question.

The United States cannot afford to remain in Iraq because we have no more money to sustain our troops in Iraq. There is no more. Thats it.

Added to this, the money the Bush Machine

has funneled into Iraq, too often nefariously, has run out.

As Iraq continues with us there.....the United States continues in this free fall towards financial destruction.

They are bound together as one.

This is exactly why the United States is in a recession.

This is why we cannot, absolutely cannot remain in Iraq.

Joe D  04/10/2008 11:28 AM Report

Great interview with John Burns and Dexter Filkins, two fine journalists who know Iraq as few others do. Their comments were balanced and full of insights one can only acquire onsite coupled with a full understanding of the stakes involved if we do not complete this war with our honor intact.

St Wendeler  04/10/2008 11:00 AM Report

<i>[...\the major premise of a free market democracy is that all men are presumed to be good by nature. [...\</i>

Actually, the major premise of free market democracy is that man will act in his own best interest. (eg, it's not the goodwill of the baker that motivates him to get up at obscene hours to make bread for his customers; it's because they pay him to and competition requires him to.)

It's the socialists who believe that man, unburdened by capitalism, will reveal their altruistic selves. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened in socialist regimes despite decades of trying.

Great program, Charlie! It's great to see the moonbats carping on you featuring two journalists from that right-wing rag, the New York Times. I also see that you have that ultra-conservative George Soros on tonight.

Throughout the interview (as with his interview with David Kilcullen) Charlie kept grasping at how the US could leave Iraq in the near term... not sure how that shows his bias in favor of continuing our support for Op Iraqi Freedom.

Vincent  04/10/2008 10:53 AM Report

Charlie,

Good show. Anyone who has listened to John Burns interviews on Charlie Rose since the start of the war would have a hard time calling him an "apologist for the war". He has been persistently critical of its planning/execution and very pessimistic about possible outcomes. Yes, his opinions are shaped by having lived among the Iraqis for so long, but that is why his insight is so interesting. He represents just one point of view, but one with a unique perspective that I continue to enjoy hearing from.

Sturgis Woodberry  04/10/2008 04:41 AM Report

John Burns is a hack. So much for objective reporting. I loved the part where Burns commented that Dexter was the bravest man he knew. Made me wanna vomit. Try asking at least ONE informed question with a follow up Charlie. Oh, I get it, anyone who joins the theatre of the absurd in what is now the discussion of Iraq is given a full pass and pitched softball questions that would make a first year journalism student blush. What's your show doing on PBS? FOX or CNN would be a perfect venue.

Gloria Donohue  04/10/2008 04:22 AM Report

Watching your show with the Iraqi war apologists, John Burns and Dexter Filkens made me so angry, I had to turn it off half way in. I am very disappointed in you Mr. Rose. Your bias is showing. I have long suspected for some time that you were a supporter of this unnecessary war, but after Wednesday's show, and now tonight's show, I no longer have any doubt.

Neither you nor Burns nor Filkens pointed out that the most recent polls show that 60% of the American people want us out of Iraq ASAP, even if conditions in Iraq have temporarily improved; that our military is stretched to a breaking point; that billions of dollars are being wasted in Iraq while our country's infrastructure is deteriorating; that our people are losing their homes, jobs, and health care; that because of this war, our government now sanctions torture and wire taps its citizens without a court warrant. Not to mention the 4,024 dead Americans; the sixty thousand maimed for life, and who knows how many dead and maimed Iraqis. And all because a group of ideologues wanted to control Iraqi oil by thinking they could do it by imposing democracy on a country whose history, religion, and culture represent the antithesis of democratic principles. The Iraqi invasion and subsequent occupation is the biggest and costliest blunder ever committed by an American president and we will, unfortunately, pay the price for this fiasco for a long time to come.

JAL  04/10/2008 03:32 AM Report

Congratulations, Charlie!

You managed to find not one, but TWO apologists for this insane, catastrophic, totally unjustifiable invasion and occupation. How could you sit there for SO long with this gibberish going on in front of you?

Respond to RJSiegel   04/10/2008 03:15 AM Report

You are correct, my friend. Charlie has gone hard right proven constantly by guest selection. Last night's guests were laid out in yesterday's blogs, aweful, failed to disclose key conflicts of interests to his listeners. Rose gave the desk to Bill Kristol when Rose left town, that says it all. Rose has been in sheeps clothing too long. Bill gets a big laugh at it. You can make Rose do anything if you show him a little intrigue, he's hooked. He's now with the intrigue sect of the war party. Rose can't adjust, it's too late.

constance k.  04/10/2008 03:12 AM Report

My son has just returned from Anbar and I was so

relieved to hear John Burns discuss his unit's

0 casualties during the 15 months surge. He is a

proud officer who looks forward to further and

more challenging combat. As a mother this is difficult to comprehend. Yet,listening to these

two amazing journalists and especially watching

Dexter Filkins carefully, I understood so much

more about Iraq and our soldiers stationed there.

Thank you, Charlie, again, for enlightenment.

Jesse  04/10/2008 03:04 AM Report

Correct! That's why you never let embed-writers who spent much time in the host country do news analysis. Never! They have mixed interests and some grow ties to the land. We learned this lesson in Vietnam. The reporting gets bad, very fast and the peotry gets good. They're great for storytelling, not serious analysis about US policy. Bad casting, wrong show.

Two More  04/10/2008 02:58 AM Report

Wow, these two guys jumped the shark. Rose puts on two adventurors for which Iraq is a personal and perhaps romantic experience (writers)...here to discuss US policy and national interest? Come on, Charlie. This is getting ridiculous. These two guys had no end in mind, sounds like they're happy their hang-outs look a little better. Now, how about all these lives and trillions. When our writers become social war engineers, watch out. Neither guest was appropriate for the topic of: the hearings. Neither had a solid grasp of the strategic tensions and/or the players. They're sense "on the ground" is wildly at odd with Iraqis, who rarely appear on your show

george o.  04/10/2008 02:28 AM Report

Great interview with two John Burns and Lester Filkins on the Iraq and the Pretaeus hearings!

It was informative, sober in analysis, balanced and realistic. It may not be welcomed by some hoping for an ideological or partisan positions but it achieved its aim: to look at the history--good and bad-- of the invasion and connect the dots of the many early mistakes leading to the need for the surge. They were also fair in acknowledging the successes of the last year, the crushing blow struck at Al-Qaida in Iraq by both, our troops and the emerging Iraqi nation.

And, the interview clearly described the reality and dangers faced today, the need to act on the dynamics of the sectarian and the intra-sectarian divisions that still threaten the future of the Iraqi state and people.

Rose was provocative; and Burns and Filkins truly thoughtful and informative.

In particular, noting Senator Obama's careful creation of space to maneuver (either as President or Senator) during the Pretaeus Hearings was insightful and astute.

An enjoyable hour of great and needed journalism. TV at its best.

reality  04/10/2008 01:51 AM Report

From a high ranking officer who has just finished a 3rd deployment to Iraq, thank you. One of the better summaries of an incredibly difficult piece of history to summarize. I think a lot of the naysayers felt the need to rehash the same old simplistic thinking in comments here because the program was so powerful, and challenged their belief system. A belief system based on emotion more than fact.

query???  04/10/2008 01:29 AM Report

John Burns is surprisingly jingoistic despite having experienced war first hand. Has the M-I-O purchased another venal soul? Mercenary party-line assertions defy logic after five years of failure. The recent re-surge in violence denies the fatuous claim that 'our' surge is a success. They can turn it on and off at will. We're more and more a paper tiger.