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Continued discussion about the film American Gangster with Frank Lucas, Richie Roberts, Mark Jacobson & Nicholas Pileggi.
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The_Curator 09/25/2009 12:47 PM Report
It's interesting to note that none of the current comments mention that the police officers who took advantage of drug prohibition to enrich themselves through criminal activity, were no better than Frank Lucas. In fact, one could argue that they were worse since, unlike Lucas, they were violating a public trust. Tangentially, there are apparently still people who are surprised that - when the government refuses to regulate a major business based on the manufacture, purchase and sale of extremely popular consumer items - gangster types will move in to exploit the lack of regulation.
Some comment on Lucas being an evil scum, etc., because his heroin "killed hundreds". If heroin and other illegal drugs were legal and subject to stringent dosage and quality control, this would eliminate the deaths and illness resulting from accidental overdosing or injecting drugs containing dangerous contaminants designed to disguise their poor quality. So the government itself could certainly be accused of contributing to the deaths of not only the customers of Frank Lucas, but the deaths of all users of illegal drugs who died from using those drugs. And one could certainly argue that Reagan (maybe it was Nixon but I believe it was Reagan) was as least as evil as Lucas, since he initiated the program to poison Mexican marijuana fields with paraquat to discourage use among Americans. When we intentionally poison products to discourage their consumption, how are we any different from the Nazis?
Wigberto M. 09/25/2008 11:08 PM Report
While enjoying the movie aspect of American Gangster I kept remembering the real-life conditions of my youth in a heroin infested neighborhood in 1980's Bushwick, Bklyn. The omnipresent prostitutes, the so-many addicts, the spent blood tainted needles on the streets and the Parks, the fights and killings, and the 83rd Pct cops blandly ignoring it all while "patrolling", was my non-fiction version of American Gangster. It remains for me neither a glamorous experience nor a chick memory; it was a scary dark dreadful place to be a child. I thought Mr. Rose's cavalier laid-back style in interviewing Mr Lucas was wrong. Moreover, if the purpose of the show was to talk movies then featuring Mr Lucas was off-mark. Mr Rose should've declined the sweet among-friends focus and engaged Mr Lucas every time he assumed a celebratory tone about his drug dealing days. My observations here do not seek to pass judgment on Mr Lucas for poetic justice has done that; just look and listen to the poor man! I wish to highlight the point that although hollywood creates fantasy for business; Charlie Rose ought not for that is not his business.
ryan 03/18/2008 06:18 PM Report
oh and mickey, your absolutely right. because he wasn't the first drug dealer in the world makes his crimes justified! ok then!
ryan 03/18/2008 03:56 PM Report
i watched the film a few days ago and have to say i thought it was brilliant. a fantastic insight into the gangster world and the corruption of a crooked police force. What amazed me was that i felt no admiration to frank lucas or sympathy for him the whole way through as oppose to other gangster movies where they often portray characters in particular ways to have likeable traits such as henry hill in goodfellas, robert de niro in casino etc. this was never shown in denzel washington until the end when he was given a reduced sentence for reporting corrupt officers, and what a great thing it was he did? yeah right! so what if he helped convict all those corrupt police officers, at the end of the day he did this to save himself and does it diminish the fact that he was responsible for 100's of people who he sold his drugs too. fair enough they would have got it anyway but the fact of the matter is that since this films release their have been tons of interviews with frank lucas all appraising him and desperate to know the real story. the real story is that he was the scum of the earth responsible for dealing hard drugs and murder, and now hes sat there on tv laughing and smiling with celebrities and making a fortune off a movie. I think we all have to appreciate the movie for what it is, the portrayal of a man who is the scum of the earth, and not a glorified likeable gangster!
Mickey 03/12/2008 04:20 PM Report
We Have to remember that Frank Lucas wasn't the first drug dealer. He didn't create this game, he played his part in it. Yes he was very wrong for what he did but that doesn't give any one the right to judge him based upon his actions. He is not the devil, he is a human just like us. The people that he killed weren't innocent bystanders either. They were involved just like he was. He didn't make people buy his product, he was just another man looking for a way to get money and happened to stumble upon this avenue and for lack of better terms, he lucked up and his luck ran out eventually. The man is sorry for what he did... And I believe that he is a good man who has made bad mistakes.
Pollo 02/22/2008 07:59 AM Report
Hey Mary Beth¡ Esto es parte de la historia, para bien o para mal.
Lucas ha sido un personaje, y eso queda ahi. Es una historia y para conservar la memoria historica debe de ser contada.
Yo soy español, y aqui hubo una dictadura, la de Franco. Por supuesto me parece repugnante lo que hizo Franco en España, pero forma parte de la historia y debe de ser contado para no olvidar.
No por eso, ni uno ni otro son heroes, pero si entrevistan a Lucas, deben de hacerlo con respeto, porque nadie va a un lugar a que lo insulten. Una cosa es el respeto, y otra tratarlo de heroe...
Un saludo.
Cookie 02/10/2008 01:49 PM Report
How do you know man was not sincere in his regrets?
Cookie 02/10/2008 01:49 PM Report
Roberts paid for Lucas' kid's schooling? Nice. And good for Lucas for bringing it up. I liked this session much more than the one with the movie people. Richie in real life is truly special. As for whether Lucas should have been on the show, well - people call Kissinger a war criminal and he is on fairly often. So not sure a guy who lost all his money and went to jail for 15 years deserves harsher treatment.
lenore scendo 02/10/2008 01:49 PM Report
Re: American Gangster
What a miscalculation to have Frank Lucas as part of your group discussion last Friday! The other participants - the cop turned attorney, the crime underworld novelist and the fellow whose New York Magazine feature article the script was partially based on -- were so obviously constrained by the presence of an unredeeded convicted criminal, who most probably was also a murderer, as part of the roundtable. Even though Lucas at one point did mutter, "I shouldn't have done it, what I did was wrong," the participants were assembled to discuss a piece of entertainment, not a criminal apology. There was an awkward disconnect going on. Pileggi talking about the mafia subculture, Jacobson about his writing, Roberts about the criminal conviction and then the criminal! And who is the stand-in for Mr. Lucas? One of the most glamourous of Hollywood performers.
In your desire to get a journalistic scoop, you used very poor judgment. Even Charles Rangel, who you alluded to on the show, commented about the glorification of criminal activity. It was a big step downward for you Mr. Rose.
Mary Beth Guevara 11/15/2007 11:46 PM Report
I usually enjoy Mr. Rose's program. However, when I saw Mr. Lucas' prowess in his herion business being celebrated, I could not believe what I was seeing. This man was responsible for abominable acts, and on the show, he appeared to be the big start yucking it up with old cronies. I have no comment about the movie. I'm just not interested. I am, however, surprised at Mr. Rose's cavalier attitude about interviewing Mr. Lucas. He's not a hero, he's not an icon. Let's not enjoy the stories that he can tell. They are awful. I was horrified by such a spectacle and will not be watching Charlie Rose ever again.
Cookie 11/14/2007 05:58 PM Report
Hey dude - your whole post was negative - your attempt to back up and hang onto a "or not" isn't persuasive. In any case, it isnt a movie I am interested in - it was made for young guys. Have a blast arguing it.
doris lehman 11/14/2007 05:02 PM Report
I just saw American Gangster and consider Denzel Washington a first rate actor...remember it's a MOVIE! The social and
economic consequense of Frank Lucas' herion business are not up for discussion. It was a MOVIE! Was it factual I don't know...I don't care. It was entertaining and as usual Denzel and Russel Crowe give us our money's worth. I
recommend it. Great Job American Ganster!
monique delatour 11/14/2007 06:12 AM Report
If the original director of this film had made the movie, (Antoine Fuqua) this movie would have been correct. But no, he wanted to do it 'right' and was replaced. We see the results.
Why hasn't a movie been made about people like the 'real' American Gangsters, the Harlem Hellfighters, the 369th Regiment. People who were really fighting for something? Films glorifying drug dealers and society wonders why our youth are so screwed up?
peter wintz 11/13/2007 12:59 AM Report
@cookie
first of all I had said:
"crocodile tears or not could not even let the man complete that thought about his "mistake".
the fact that I said "or not" means I'm not sure if he's sincere or not. He claims he's regretful yet he recently got into arguments over the phone in interviews that also had Nicky Barnes about who had the better heroin business.
But that wasn't my main point. My main point was that Charlie Rose wouldn't even let Frank Lucas express his "regrets". He kept interrupting him with questions about why he was such an "great" heroin dealer.
Cookie 11/12/2007 06:02 PM Report
How do you know man was not sincere in his regrets?
peter wintz 11/12/2007 02:50 PM Report
Charlie Rose is so obsessed with his "search for excellence" that when Frank Lucas was trying to confess that what he did was wrong Charlie kept interrupting him with questions along the lines of what you made you the top drug dealer, what made you so good at what tou did. It was disgusting how Charlie is so blinded by his quest for the best that he couldn't see the forest for the trees and made this murderer seem like a cute little old man, crocodile tears or not could not even let the man complete that thought about his "mistake".
Most of this "excellence" that Charlie is always running after you're either born with or not. In the meantime can't we keep gangsters out of that loop and in their proper perspective- men who have used brutality as a means to an end?
neil sharpe 11/07/2007 02:50 PM Report
When we witness the terrible abuse heroin can cause, when we hear stories about the savage brutality of the gangsters who profited from it, when we learn of widespread corruption, why is anyone laughing? What would be the reaction if this happened to your family, to your children?
jt 11/07/2007 01:28 AM Report
I just saw the movie and I have to say that it was just okay. Wasn't a masterful gangster movie... not even in the same 'hood as Goodfellas. Denzel was good but still not taking the risks that he should have taken to play a gangsta. Scott kind of made it too clean, too Hollywood. And I have to say, if Lucas did commit the murders that he did in the movie then it is a fine line that Rose is walking here.
Cookie 11/06/2007 10:55 PM Report
Roberts paid for Lucas' kid's schooling? Nice. And good for Lucas for bringing it up. I liked this session much more than the one with the movie people. Richie in real life is truly special. As for whether Lucas should have been on the show, well - people call Kissinger a war criminal and he is on fairly often. So not sure a guy who lost all his money and went to jail for 15 years deserves harsher treatment.
B A Guest-Glover 11/06/2007 04:42 PM Report
Friday November 2,07 interview w/the Devil frank lucas and clearly he is a devil was a bit of a disappointment. Having the producer, NY Magazine writer, actor ( Denzel Washington) and the former DEA officer talk about some of the attributes of this man was absolutely sickening. This man in no way should be glorified or seen as a hero in the community. Let�s not forget that this person (lucas) helped in the total
destruction of family members and many members of a hard working community. Due to this man, hundreds of men were brought down to their knees (laid in the gutter) and with that many women/children were also destroyed. Additionally, lets not forget he made millions on the lost souls of human beings, which might remind us of other atrocities committed on poor defenseless humans in the past!
My suggestion for lucas is...before he begins to try to make amends to the community, please ask him to have a chat with the doctors/nurses at Harlem hospital. Let them share the data on how many babies were born addicted to heroin and crack. Then ask the older members of the community to tell him about the number of mothers who attempted to sell their babies or simply abandon their child(ren). Ask property owners why they left their buildings in fear for their family's lives and ask teachers about the number of Special Ed classes that were set up for children suffering from attention deficit disorder. The list goes on and on and for some of us it's too painful to talk about.
It is my hope that people will stand up and denounce this movie and speak out so that younger folks will see lucas for what he really was and perhaps still is ... a devil.
jeff 11/05/2007 11:35 PM Report
I saw the movie...it is overrated...the directing, the producing, the acting are all overrated...not a great movie...fancy stuff, but empty.
I saw the charlierose show with the director, producer, and 2 main actors too...a "wow, aren't we all great...aren't we all glad we're so connected" session.
I just saw this charlierose show with the actual guys and writer guys which also just wasn't that good...hard to take it seriously when the guests and host don't.
Why don't you, Mr Charlie Rose follow this show up with several respected film and culture critics?...let's hear their critique of this movie.
lenore scendo 11/05/2007 04:58 PM Report
Re: American Gangster
What a miscalculation to have Frank Lucas as part of your group discussion last Friday! The other participants - the cop turned attorney, the crime underworld novelist and the fellow whose New York Magazine feature article the script was partially based on -- were so obviously constrained by the presence of an unredeeded convicted criminal, who most probably was also a murderer, as part of the roundtable. Even though Lucas at one point did mutter, "I shouldn't have done it, what I did was wrong," the participants were assembled to discuss a piece of entertainment, not a criminal apology. There was an awkward disconnect going on. Pileggi talking about the mafia subculture, Jacobson about his writing, Roberts about the criminal conviction and then the criminal! And who is the stand-in for Mr. Lucas? One of the most glamourous of Hollywood performers.
In your desire to get a journalistic scoop, you used very poor judgment. Even Charles Rangel, who you alluded to on the show, commented about the glorification of criminal activity. It was a big step downward for you Mr. Rose.