Charlie Rose

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/17/2013 03:09 AM Report

We are told that the game is about stopping the Keynesian panic feedback loop.

The austerity and growth juggling act.

Wasn't WWII austerity and growth? Back home the austerity of rationing and the growth of war with full employment and exports exploding through the roof.

Paul Krugman calls for that simulated alien invasion.

nanoo nanoo.

vongleichent  02/16/2013 09:23 AM Report

I like his attitude. Not in one sentence was he trying to agree with anyone. He always had his own thoughts :)

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/14/2013 03:20 AM Report

Good question Charlie--best Debt to GDP ratio?

Two answers—above 100% countries get into trouble and Greece is at 150%. Deficits are all right as long as your economy is growing. The answer is what is stable or where you can grow. Carry a student loan or a car loan you can carry that debt but probably not three car loans.

Somewhere in the 80% debt to GDP ratio is good but perhaps better in the 70s. Stabilize the debt to something you pay for as you grow.

Debt is not inherently bad; too much debt is though.

(In STATE governments, budgeting and balance budget requirements are ubiquitous. Every state has a budget, and every state other than Vermont has some form of constraint on fiscal discretion, including requirements for governors to submit a balanced budget, requirements for legislatures to pass a balanced budget, restrictions on rolling over a deficit, and restrictions on issuing debt to cover the deficit. The wide use of balanced budget requirements suggests that state governments perceive balanced budget requirements to be net beneficial.)

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/14/2013 03:05 AM Report

Yes, HEALTHCARE AND THE ECONOMY!

Tea Party--please listen . . .

We are told that Healthcare is messed up--not entitlements per se. Healthcare for the long term is critical.

The reform issue—both private and public healthcare systems are messed up because costs are out of control. Critical issue of America’s economy is healthcare.

(Yes! 17% of GDP. Highest percentage in the world with the benefits of such high cost questionable at best. You want austerity Tea Party--here you go.)

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/14/2013 02:53 AM Report

We are told that Germany’s economic model has been looking good over the last three years because Germany crushed wages for 10 years and built up an export machine. Kept reducing the wages of the working people. Not a sustainable source of growth.

(Well wages at GM fell after the bailout. Beat down the middle class to save them?)

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/14/2013 02:29 AM Report

He tells us, “No one at the macro level is being rewarded.”

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha . . .

The Federal Reserve is lending to the banks at zero percent and what are the banks doing with the free money? Lending back to the government with interest. Bailout money is given to the banks and the government borrows it back with interest. Who is punished? The savers who get little interest on their savings and certificates of deposit.

Jon Stewart waves the white flag:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-may-13-2010/hoarders

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/14/2013 02:13 AM Report

"When the housing and credit bubble burst, the thinking goes, it caused such dislocation in the British economy, and raised government and private-sector debt so high, that the entire nation could not possibly produce as much as it used to. Throughout the economy, people had to shift from highly profitable fields, like finance and real estate, into much less lucrative ones. Even if everyone went back to work, and even if businesses and factories produced at maximum capacity, workers would not be able to produce as much value as they could have in 2006.

According to this theory, if the entire economy is less productive, it’s harder for the government — with its lower tax receipts — to pay off its debt. The only choice, therefore, is to make the government smaller: to drastically cut back on social spending and fire public workers. Only then can the economy grow again, albeit from a lower base.

To Posen, this view was not only wrong; it was also dangerous. The data, he told me, showed precisely the opposite. The economy wasn’t irrevocably shrinking. It was experiencing an output gap, or a situation in which the economy is prevented from growing not through any fault of its own but by a failure in government policy. If the Bank of England adopted a more expansionary approach, and if Cameron’s government reversed its austerity program, the economy would bounce back remarkably quickly. Posen knows, he said, because he saw it happen before — in an economy even bigger than Britain’s."

(So how can the data show precisely the opposite? What kind of data says two things that are opposite according to our experts? Sounds like economists, and weather forecasters, need better modeling.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/magazine/god-save-the-british-economy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/14/2013 02:05 AM Report

"Each month, the committee heard Posen’s advice.

Each month, it voted 8 to 1 against him.

The bank eschewed his more expansionary suggestions and stuck to a more conservative approach of keeping interest rates low and modest bond-buying.

Soon Posen became a famously divisive figure in London’s financial community, alternatively the enlightened genius trying to save the country and the mad Yank who wanted to inflate the pound out of existence.

“There was this period,” he remembers, “when I would lie awake at night and think: Am I just crazy? Maybe I’m nuts. It’s like the scene in ‘12 Angry Men.’ I almost wavered. But then I decided: No, no, no. I was convinced: They’re nuts and I’m right.”"

(Economics--not really science at all. Too bad for the world's sake.)

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/13/2013 11:31 PM Report

Charlie, have you looked at the list of the Board of Directors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterson_Institute_for_International_Economics#Board_of_Directors

Holy Smokes!

bluedevils  02/13/2013 03:51 PM Report

"Sandra was not an accident" was enough to convince me that Mr. Posen is just another liberal that dominate your show.

Obama fails climate science in his State of the Union address

Source: Climate depot

by Marc Morano

SPPI Note: Supporting science reviews at SPPI:

Historical Trends of Atlantic Basin Tropical Cyclones

Historical Flood Trends in Europe

Precipitation Variability in Asia

Drought Trends in Asia

Droughts in South America

Storm Trends Across the Globe

Rising Temperatures and Tropical Cyclones in the Atlantic Basin

Droughts in Africa

Extreme Temperatures in Europe

Historical Trends of African Glacier Dynamics

Extreme Temperatures in Asia

Obama fails climate science in his State of the Union address — Climate Depot’s point-by-point rebuttal to the President’s global warming claims

The President offered up nothing more than the usual incorrect global warming platitudes during his speech. The president could not have been more wrong in claiming “extreme weather” was “now more frequent and intense” and he failed to note that global temperatures have not increased in 16 years.

Climate Depot’s Point-by-Point rebuttal:

President Obama: ‘But for the sake of our children and our future, we must do more to combat climate change’

Climate Depot Reaction: Our children do not need politicians in Washington posturing and pretending they can control global temperatures and make storms less severe or less frequent. See: Climatologist Dr. Tim Ball: ‘Future generations will curse why we allowed a few political bullies to undermine development & progress with the false claim that human CO2 is causing climate change’ Future generations ‘will wonder how people could write such misinformed, hysterical, commentary.’

MIT’s Dr. Lindzen: “Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a roll-back of the industrial age.’

#

President Obama: ‘Yes, it’s true that no single event makes a trend. But the fact is, the 12 hottest years on record have all come in the last 15?

Climate Depot Response: Obama is ignoring the climate elephant in the room. Global temperatures have essentially been flat lining for 16 years now. The halt in global temperatures has shown up in multiple data sets and peer-reviewed literature.

NASA’s James Hansen Officially Admits Global Temperature Standstill Is Real: ‘Mean Global Temperature Has Been Flat For The Last Decade’

Trying to cite “hottest year” claims as “proof” of man-made global warming is preposterous when you consider that such claims are purely political. – Even NASA’s Hansen admits ‘hottest year’ claims are ‘not particularly important’. German Prof. mocks ‘hottest decade’ claim as ‘a joke’ ‘Claims based on year-to-year temperature data that differs by only a few HUNDREDTHS of a degree’

Top Swedish Climate Scientist Dr. Lennart Bengtsson Says Warming Not Noticeable: ‘The warming we have had last a 100 years is so small that if we didn’t have climatologists to measure it we wouldn’t have noticed it at all

What about Obama’s claim of “hottest decade”? See: German Climate Professor Werner Kirstein Slams ‘Climate Religion’: Refutes claims of ‘hottest decade’ as ‘a joke’ — ‘Determining a global avg. is a tricky business and in the end is only a theoretical value’

#

President Obama: ‘Heat waves, droughts, wildfires, and floods – all are now more frequent and intense’

Climate Depot Response: Sorry Mr. President, you are not entitled to your own set of facts. See: Meteorologist Dr. Ryan Maue: ‘Are climate scientists bothered that President’s speech on ‘extreme weather’ climate change doesn’t jive with the last IPCC SREX report?’

Drought: Study: Drought Trends, Estimates Possibly Overstated Due To Inaccurate Science – Journal Nature study ‘suggests that there has been little change in drought over the past 60 years’ – ‘The major 2012 drought obscures the fact that U.S. has seen a decline in drought over past century’

Floods: Prof. Pielke Jr. : ‘Are US Floods Increasing? The Answer is Still No’ — ‘A new paper out today shows flooding has not increased in U.S. over records of 85 to 127 years’

All Of The World’s Deadliest Floods Occurred With CO2 Well Below 350 PPM – ‘We know that hurricanes have declined, tornadoes have declined, floods have declined, and droughts have declined. That is why history has been redefined to start in the 1970s’

Heatwaves: EPA Say Heatwaves Much Worse in 1930?s: ‘Heat waves occurred with high frequency in the 1930s, and these remain the most severe heat waves in the U.S. historical record’:

‘According to USHCN (U.S. Historical Climatology Network) temperature records, the 1930s holds a wide lead for all-time daily record maximums in the U.S. There is zero evidence that ‘climate change’ has increased the probability of setting temperature records’

40% Of U.S. All-Time Record Maximums Were Set During The 1930s

Wildfires: ‘Wildfire numbers since 1950 have decreased globally by 15%’ – ‘According to the National Academy of Sciences, they will likely continue to decline until around midcentury’

New paper finds wildfires in the western US are at the lowest levels in 3,000 years: ‘Finds current fire activity is at the lowest levels of the entire 3,000 year record’

#

President Obama: ‘We can choose to believe that Superstorm Sandy, and the most severe drought in decades, and the worst wildfires some states have ever seen were all just a freak coincidence. Or we can choose to believe in the overwhelming judgment of science – and act before it’s too late.’

Climate Depot Resonse: Superstorm Sandy linked to man-made global warming?! Please Mr. President, read up on science before you embarrass yourself. See: Prof. Roger Pielke Jr.: ‘Remarkably, the U.S. is currently experiencing the longest-ever recorded period with no strikes of a Category 3 or stronger hurricane’ “Sandy was terrible, but we’re currently in a relative hurricane ‘drought’,” Pielke Jr. explained..

The scientific data does not support claims that Sandy was a “new normal.” See: Hurricane Facts: ‘According to NOAA, they have been on decline in US since the beginning of records in 19th century. The worst decade for major (category 3,4,5) hurricanes was 1940s’

Scientist Martin Hoerling of NOAA on Sandy: ‘As to underlying causes, neither the frequency of tropical or extratropical cyclones over N. Atlantic are projected to appreciably change due to climate change’

No Long-Term Trend in Frequency, Strength of Landfalling Hurricanes — A new study by Jessica Weinkle (U of Colorado), Ryan Maue (Naval Research Lab), & Roger Pielke, Jr.

Prof. Richard Muller: ‘Hurricanes are not increasing due to human causes (actually, they have been decreasing over past 250 years).

New Report: ‘Extreme Weather Report 2012?: ‘Latest peer-reviewed studies, data & analyses undermine claims that current weather is ‘unprecedented’ or a ‘new normal’ — Climate Depot’s New 35-Page Report: ‘Current weather is neither historically unprecedented, nor unusual’ — ‘Extreme weather events are ever present, and there is no evidence of systematic increases’ — Presented at UN Climate Conference in Doha, Qatar on Dec. 6, 2012

Deaths from ‘extreme weather’ at their lowest since 1900

The Decline in Deaths from Extreme Weather, 1900–2010: ‘Aggregate mortality attributed to all extreme weather events globally has declined by more than 90% since the 1920s’ — ‘…In spite of a four-fold rise in population and much more complete reporting of such events. The aggregate mortality rate declined by 98%’

‘A study published in 2011 in Geophysical Research Letters on causes of the 2010 Russian heat wave deduced that it ‘was due to internal atmospheric dynamical processes’ – Paging Al Gore: Peer-reviewed Study: ‘It is unlikely that the warming attributable to increasing greenhouse gas concentrations contributed significantly to the magnitude of the [Russian] heat wave’

Climate Depot’s Morano on Fox News Mocking Gore’s ‘Climate Astrology’: ‘This is now akin to the predictions of Nostradamus or the Mayan calendar’ – Morano: ‘There is no way anyone can falsify the global warming theory now because any weather event that happens ‘proves’ their case…Man-made global warming has ceased to be a science, it is now the level of your daily horoscope’ — Gore [in 2006 film] did not warn us of extreme blizzards and record cold winters coming’

Obama goes full witchcraft by telling voters they ‘can do something about’ droughts and floods and wildfires — Climate Depot Responds – Climate Depot’s Morano reminds voters: ‘Acts of the UN and the U.S. Congress or EPA, cannot control the weather’

Related Links:

Obama Proposes Cap-and-Trade: Urges ‘Congress to pursue a bipartisan, market-based solution to climate change, like one John McCain & Joe Lieberman worked on together a few years ago’

Report: ‘Sens. Boxer and Sanders to introduce climate bill w/carbon tax on Thursday’

Meteorologist Dr. Ryan Maue: ‘Are climate scientists bothered that President’s speech on ‘extreme weather’ climate change doesn’t jive with the last IPCC SREX report?’

AP debunks Obama on climate claims: THE FACTS: ‘Obama failed to get a global warming bill through Congress when both Houses were controlled by Democrats in 2010? – AP: ‘With Republicans in control of the House, the chances of a bill to limit the gases blamed for global warming and to create a market for businesses to trade pollution credits are close to zero…And while there are still other ways to address climate change without Congress, it’s questionable regulation alone can achieve the reductions needed to start curbing global warming’

Bing Pulse: Obama ‘bottomed out’ on climate change with Independents and Republicans. Flat line at -100% negative’

Gore ‘now smiling’ after Obama’s SOTU speech: Gore: ‘You’re right, Michael! Somewhere Al Gore is now smiling’

Three Decades Of SOTU Climate Remarks: Bill Clinton in 2000: ‘The greatest environmental challenge of the new century is global warming’ – George W. Bush in 2007: ‘These technologies will help us be better stewards of the environment, and they will help us to confront the serious challenge of global climate change’

Scientific American Challenged on Tar Sands and Climate Change by Friends of Science: ‘Should the Eco-activists be allowed to shut down the US economy based on faulty science?’ – ‘The oil sands and Keystone XL Pipeline offer Americans an estimated 343,000 new U.S. jobs between 2011 and 2015 if Keystone XL proceeds. Something like 2,400 American companies from 49 states already are involved in the development of Canada’s oil sands’ — ‘It’s ‘oil’ sands not ‘tar’ to be scientific’

Warmists tell Obama ‘you have the power to stop climate change’ — ‘Sandy Survivors to Obama: Our Power is Out, But You Have the Power to Stop Climate Change’

Meteorologist Dr. Ryan Maue: ‘Obama’s SOTU climate paragraph has at least 3 straw man arguments mixed together. Speech writer used Google poorly’

Maue: ‘Honestly, the climate section is pretty weak, checking off a box. Liberal enviro base will swoon but McCain + Lieberman (retired)?

Meteorologist Dr. Ryan Maue: ‘Obama’s SOTU climate paragraph has at least 3 straw man arguments mixed together. Speech writer used Google poorly’

Maue: ‘Honestly, the climate section is pretty weak, checking off a box. Liberal enviro base will swoon but McCain + Lieberman (retired)?

Text of Obama’s 2013 State of the Union Address

‘Watch Speaker Boehner roll his eyes at Barack Obama’s pledge to address the climate crisis’

Warmist Bill McKibben happy: ‘Strongest thing the pres did tonite was talk about the weather, and link it to climate change. A change from the campaign and a good one’

‘No mention of coal in Obama’s all-of-the-above energy policy tonight’

Warmist Joe Romm excited: ‘Climate Hawk Obama’: ‘If Congress Won’t Act Soon To Protect Future Generations, I Will’

AP debunks Obama on gas mileage claim: From the AP: OBAMA: ‘We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas’ – THE FACTS: ‘Not so fast. That’s expected to happen in 12 more years’ Under a deal the Obama administration reached with automakers in 2011, vehicles will have a corporate average fuel economy of 54.5 miles per gallon’

Greenpeace: ‘Unless Obama puts brake on Arctic drilling, Keystone XL; exporting coal, it’s one step forward, two steps back’

House GOP put Obama on Keystone Clock: ‘The Energy & Commerce initiative marks an escalation of GOP efforts to nudge Obama after Nebraska Gov. Dgave the OK to a revised pipeline route’

Obama ‘urged to emphasize climate threat’ in state of the union

Obama’s plan?! The price of Keystone pipeline approval may be a carbon tax: ‘Tax could provide cover for approval of oil sands pipeline’ – Obama ‘will be alert to the chorus of Hollywood stars, environmental activists, editorial writers and industry leaders who are pushing for him to make the biggest climate-change decision he can possibly make: Impose a carbon tax’ — ‘Obama might offer some kind of carbon tax as a carrot to environmentalists and climate activists opposed to Keystone has since emerged as more than plausible’

charliesheep  02/13/2013 12:41 PM Report

THOSE; WHO PRETEND TO "STEER THE SHIP" PUT IT ON THE ROCKS! I.E. TO WIT, CUTTER IN PHILLIPINE'S;A CRUISE SHIP, IN SICILY! FOR A PERCENTAGE THE HEDGE FUNDS; BACK THE DEVIL, SELL THEIR MOMMA, SEND THE MESSAGE THAT "ALL IS WELL" IN THE WORLD[ZION]! A WORLD; THAT EATS ITS CHILDREN FOR BREAKFAST- SRI LANKA - UNRESOLVED CHOATIC PLACES FOR CHARLIE TO BEACH HIS SELF, AND SUN- EXHALE FROM THE COCOUFANY OF LIARS THAT SELL WHAT THEY HAVE NOT! THE AGILE; IN WORLD DO! AND REST ARE CHUM --MAYBE?

tabs  02/13/2013 01:27 AM Report

"Rose has still not bothered to read it. I mean all his Wall St pals know better, don't they?" Re Mant 2/12/13

Mant does ones work for one. However one thinks of it in terms of a bovine complacency of dedicated followers of the "conventional wisdom," who blindly do the same thing over and over again all the while thinking that there will be a different result this time. To point, each of the last 3 years in the Spring it has been Green Shoots of Growth that have been touted only to be followed in early summer by a withering of that economic spring. To whit in each of the last 3 years that 3% Growth rate or better has fallen flat resulting in a 1.5% to 2.5% growth rate. As one has articulated previously, perhaps one should look to the rate of population growth being at roughly 1.6% as an indicator of why the economy is growing at the rate that it is, rather than all the Kings Men and all the Kings Horses efforts at trying to put Humpty Dumpty together again.

Further to illustrate the Charlie McCarthy school of economic policy that Mr Posen so ably represents, can he cite the correlation between the economic policies of the United States etal during and after the Crisis and the Arab Spring? The answer of course is that the spark that lit the fuse that resulted in the Arab Spring was that Street Vendor in Tunisia who lit himself on fire to protest the harassment that he was receiving from his own government. Also to hammer home the concept, the Egyptian Spring was about the inability of the Mubarak government to alleviate the lack of economic growth and jobs in Egypt. Here one has to have a conceptual idea as to the vertical nature of policy decision making and how it cuts across all spectrums of political, economic and cultural behavior. In this case as elites lose control of events their power begins to errode which results in fragmentation and chaos. Which ultimately results in new orders and new elites forming as power abhors a vacuum.

Finally one wants to thank Mr Rose for a completely disapointing evening of discussions on the Global Economy. On the bright side one did learn a bit about the NY Ballet..

Max83  02/12/2013 09:13 PM Report

This is how it should be:

Ralph Nader on Only The Super-Rich Can Save Us [FULL]

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq9HblxDyTE

'' Uploaded on Dec 4, 2009

Consumer activist and former presidential candidate Ralph Nader talks about American politics and his surprising new work of speculation "Only The Super-Rich Can Save Us." ''

Max83  02/12/2013 04:55 PM Report

Markets Should Serve Society - INET's Rob Johnson

Link: http://ineteconomics.org/blog/inet/markets-should-serve-society-inets-rob-johnson

'' "Markets and the institutions that support them are not descended from heaven but are human constructs that require support and the conviction. Markets are mechanisms that are meant to serve society."

That was INET Executive Director Rob Johnson's message when he spoke to the Economic Times of India this week. Johnson talked with the Economic Times about today's pressing economic issues like inequality and financial instability. "One must understand that inequality can breed instability and that unbridled finance can do as much or more harm as good," Johnson said.

Johnson also took aim at the growth-at-all-costs approach to development because it doesn't provide quality of life for most people. "Growth per se does not impress me," he said. "What matters is the quality of development. I am very concerned that growth that exacerbates income inequality and causes environmental deterioration is of little or no value to society. Quality of growth matters a great deal."''

The Corporate Tax Fairness Act

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7qGdA0WwY

Sanders, Schakowsky Propose Tax Fairness Act

Link: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=f8e29aae-dda3-4af9-a8e2-c6df481d1ffa

''February 7, 2013

WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today introduced a bill to stop profitable corporations from sheltering income in the Cayman Islands and other tax havens. The legislation also would end tax breaks for companies that ship jobs and factories overseas.

Sanders’ bill and a companion measure to be introduced in the House by Rep. Jan Schakowsky would yield more than $590 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

“At a time when we have a $16.5 trillion national debt and an unsustainable federal deficit; at a time when roughly one-quarter of the largest corporations in America are paying no federal income taxes; and at a time when corporate profits are at an all-time high, it is past time for corporate America to contribute significantly to deficit reduction,” said Sanders, a member of the Senate Budget Committee.

“Even as profits grow to record levels, corporations’ share of tax revenues paid has dropped significantly in recent decades. Sen. Sanders and I are offering a comprehensive and commonsense solution that would eliminate tax subsidizes for big oil companies and corporations that are shipping jobs and profits overseas,” Schakowsky said.

Sanders was joined at the news conference by Bob McIntyre, director of Citizens for Tax Justice; Damon Silvers, the policy director for the AFL-CIO; and Dorigen Hoffman, policy director for the Norwich, Vt.-based Clean Yield Asset Management.

The legislation “would increase investment, employment and wages in the United States,” said Richard L. Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO. Mary Kay Henry, the Service Employees International Union president, said the proposal would “raise revenue, restore fairness to our tax code and create good jobs in the U.S.”

Under current law, U.S. corporations are allowed to defer or delay U.S. income taxes on overseas profits until the money is brought back into the United States. U.S. corporations are also provided foreign tax credits to offset the amount of taxes paid to other countries.

According to a 2008 Government Accountability Office Report, 83 of the Fortune 100 companies in the United States use offshore tax havens to lower their taxes. Today, U.S. corporations have an estimated $1.7 trillion of un-repatriated foreign profits sitting offshore.

Sanders also released a report today on how 31 corporations represented by the Business Roundtable have avoided $128 billion in federal income taxes by setting up more than 500 subsidiaries in tax haven countries. The Business Roundtable recently released a report calling for Congress to slash Social Security and Medicare benefits something that Sanders called “shameless.”

The Corporate Tax Fairness Act would require U.S. companies to pay taxes on all of their income by ending the deferral of foreign source income.

Under the legislation proposed by Sanders and Schakowsky, corporations would pay U.S. taxes on their offshore profits as they are earned. The legislation would take away the tax incentives for corporations to move jobs offshore or to shift profits offshore because the U.S. would tax their profits no matter where they are generated.''

REMant  02/12/2013 12:35 PM Report

If Britain's economy is not working, not exporting, it's because this country and the rest of the world are engaged in a race to the bottom, which no one country can buck, the same process of devolution which occurred in the Depression.

The Peterson ppl all appear to be monetarists, in favor of banks, ie, free money, but against government's spending any of it. Posen in particular is thick as thieves with Bernanke, is also Jewish and involved with the CFR and it seems from his resume, just about every other such lobby.

But they are still Keynesians, because there's no way in a depression to spend money without printing it, which The General Theory was clear enough about. That's why they were dubbed inflationists, even before its appearance. "Austerity" was Keynes' means of deprecating, if not avoiding, responsibility, and he was surely no one to hold with responsibility.

While Keynes did suggest an unemployment spiral in this 1936 concoction, the 1932 debate was between govt SPENDING, on the one hand, vs SAVING promoted by Hayek, Robbins, and Robertson as the best means to end the Depression. The Keynesians argued that a lack of public "confidence," prevented investment, not the actual absence of funds, as they do today, because they refuse to believe that money can depreciate. (Their letters to the Times can be found here: http://thinkmarkets.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/keynes-hayek-1932-cambridgelse.pdf)

In Keynesianism there's never too much credit, just too little supply, which they believe increasing debt can increase, and although they say they're opposed to hoarding (or "liquidity preference") they are loath to admit that they really fear sloth, hence they are really the "puritans." Whenever you hear people making claims of this sort, you can be sure projection is involved. (Keynes incidentally was also big on eugenics.) I notice Skidelsky is still running around trying his best to paint Keynes as the savior of liberalism rather than what he became - an outright socialist - tho he believed factories were socialist anyway.

But there's no panic, no downward spiral, just too much unsupported money misinvested in unproductive, unneeded capital goods, which cannot and will not be sustained, and was initiated by these SAME POLICIES in conjunction with an asinine fiat money regime combined with overleveraged fractional reserve banking. Their ideas have been repeatedly debunked since they originated with John Law, but they benefit bankers, and there's a sucker born every minute.

What these jackasses are smiling about now are the same things they were smiling about ten years ago, and I'm afraid ten years before that, though they weren't so cheery a decade before that, nor again ten years earlier, but we only had the Saudis and Japanese to sponge off then, and we still had a little savings left. It was ten years previously, in 1963, when the economy was still healthy that this all began. Since then the price of assets is some 46 times what it was, (in Britain too, and the president wonders where our middle-class went).

The markets these days, of course, want inflation, because it favors them if not the society as a whole. But there's no "growth" involved in it. When prices rise, we are all poorer. Nor is it a "virtuous cycle." A virtuous cycle is when productivity increases, prices drop, and labor benefits. And the Fed believes its mandate is to prevent that.

Of course, no matter what they profess, it's clear, both the monetarists and Keynesians expect monetary depreciation to "pay off" the accumulated debts, but you can never end a Ponzi scheme of this sort that way, and in the meantime it favors hanging onto and speculating in the rise in the value of assets, not their use.

Anyone who would believe all this monetary nonsense would I suppose believe as well in the so-called evidence for man-made global warming, probably also the necessity of preventing defense cuts, and maybe even, if they were looking for handouts, scrapping the 2nd Amendment. But I'm sure the idea that their own policies may actually also be the cause of pollution, war and crime no more acceptable to their egos, than the cause of the depression.

Again I recommend Lionel Robbins, The Great Depression (http://www.mises.org/books/depression-robbins.pdf) which explains all this in simple terms, and I'm sure in the past four years I've done so Rose has still not bothered to read it. I mean all his Wall St pals know better, don't they?