Charlie Rose

SharkswithfrikingLazers  04/27/2013 05:31 PM Report

Advance this Charlie Rose interview http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10658

to 33:05 and listen to what Michael Sandel says about the torture argument and Dick Cheney (real test would you torture the completely innocent 12 year old daughter of the terrorist to save the many—it is NOT just about numbers but being morally justified) and that virtue (who deserves what) is giving just desserts to a person (per Aristotle) which means the recognition and honor given from a society (usually wealth, but it really is honor and recognition like allowing same sex marriage).

SharkswithfrikingLazers  04/18/2013 10:14 PM Report

It is now confirmed that the Bush Administration are TORTURERS by the Constitution Project.

"An independent review of the U.S. government's anti-terrorism response after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks reported Tuesday that it is "indisputable" the United States engaged in torture and the George W. Bush administration bears responsibility.

The report by the Constitution Project, a non-partisan Washington-based think-tank, is an ambitious review of the Bush administration's approach to the problems of holding and interrogating detainees after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon."

(John Bolton says the report is divorced from reality and there were three levels of lawyering (HA!).)

Watch it on The Daily Show:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-17-2013/zero-dark-hurty

Read it on the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130416/us-us-torture/?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=politics

When will the trials begin or will Gerald Ford come back from the grave to issue hundreds of pardons?

SharkswithfrikingLazers  02/08/2013 08:03 PM Report

MR. PANETTA: I think we could have gotten bin Laden without that.

The first act of "Zero Dark Thirty" is 25 minutes of torture and this thing was first written as if we did NOT even get UBL.

The Director coasted on crap. She should have spent 25 minutes explaining why the CIA lost a critical file for almost a decade.

TODD: Zero Dark Thirty. You-- you’ve-- we’ll-- we will show a little bit here. We’ve got James Gandolfini of course most of us just call him Tony Soprano playing you as CIA director. There you are out there. I won’t ask you to comment on the acting, but there’s been a serious debate about-- the movie seems to say-- seems to indicate that enhanced interrogation techniques or torture was used to get information to get bin Laden. Is that true?

MR. PANETTA: Well, you know, first of all, it’s a movie. Let’s first remember that.

TODD: Okay.

MR. PANETTA: I-- I lived the real story with the bin Laden operation.

TODD: Well, then tell us what-- what…

MR. PANETTA: And the real story is that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to bin Laden, there was a lot of intelligence. There were a lot of pieces out there that were part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is, we-- we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.

TODD: And you think you could have gotten it without any…

MR. PANETTA: I think we could have gotten bin Laden without that.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50666148/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/t/february-leon-panetta-martin-demps ey-robert-gibbs-ralph-redd-ana-navarro-david-brooks/#.URWYH_LVqS

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/27/2013 04:11 PM Report

"All storytelling is a series of editorial decisions. You decide what to leave in, what to leave out. In doing so you reveal a point of view. They kept to a very narrow storyline that ended in the triumphant capture of bin Laden. The posters don't say, "WE SOLD OUR SOULS TO GET HIM," they read, "THE GREATEST MANHUNT IN HISTORY."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/zero-dark-thirty-is-osama-bin-ladens-last-victory -over-america-20130116

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/27/2013 04:10 PM Report

Rolling Stone:

"There's no way to watch Zero Dark Thirty without seeing it as a movie about how torture helped us catch Osama bin Laden."

"This film got nominated for Best Picture – it could even win. Has anyone thought about how Zero Dark Thirty winning Best Picture will be received in places like Kashmir and Waziristan and Saudi Arabia?"

"We had (have) to make lunatics like bin Laden pariahs among their own people, which in turn would make genuine terrorists easier to catch with the aid of genuinely sympathetic local populations."

Instead, "We tortured and humiliated thousands of people across the world. We did it on camera, in pictures that everyone in the Middle East can watch over and over again on the Internet. We became notorious for a vast kidnapping program we called by the harmless-sounding term "rendition," and more lately for an endless campaign of extralegal drone attacks, through which 800 innocent people have died in Afghanistan alone in the last four years (the Guardian claims we've killed 168 children in that country in the last seven years)."

"She (Maya) went from queasy to hardass (about torture) in about ten seconds and we didn't linger on the transformation at all."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/zero-dark-thirty-is-osama-bin-ladens-last-victory -over-america-20130116

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/27/2013 04:52 AM Report

"In the final third of Zero Dark Thirty, the agents switch from torture to detective work -- and guess what happens? We find bin Laden! Eight years of torture -- no bin Laden. Two years of detective work -- boom! Bin Laden!

And that really should be the main takeaway from Zero Dark Thirty: That good detective work can bring fruitful results -- and that torture is wrong."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/zero-dark-thirty-torture_b_2548079.html

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/27/2013 04:31 AM Report

Charlie says, Director Vincent Dowling said "All great stories are about loneliness." Is she lonely?

Kathryn and Mark seem to have forgotten that she is lonely.

During the scene in the Marriott before it is blown up we learn she has no friends. Also, she won't eat in restaurants after this because it is too dangerous and subsequently turns down an invitation. Also, she is shown drinking a canned beverage and eating licorice by herself.

Yes Charlie, she is VERY lonely but the 45 minutes of torture nullify this being a great story.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/27/2013 04:16 AM Report

Even though UBL is killed, Charlie counters Kathyrn, even more events take place because al Qaeda spawned many different kinds of organizations in Asia and elsewhere.

Yes, the narrative is that UBL was the head of the snake so the head (money and command) is gone but then again the Republicans claim (in recent Benghazi hearings) that the al Qaeda flag is being flown all over the Middle East.

This black flag of jihad is used by Islamic extremist organizations that include al Qaeda, al Shabaab, the Islamic Courts Union, the Islamic State of Iraq and Hizbul Islam (2009).

So al Qaeda appears to be a catch all title and a very amorphous enemy that may or may not need a head.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/27/2013 03:54 AM Report

26:59: “There is evidence of a capture on the bottom of the ocean somewhere” followed by laughter.

Good point Charlie. So why the original narrative that this was a capture mission and not that the truth that we are assassins?

SharkswithfrikingLazers  01/22/2013 02:45 AM Report

This movie is C-R-A-P for the torture alone.

It is not just a scene of torture but almost an entire act.

It is not torture with the audience using their imaginations.

The torture involves sexual humiliation with the tortured man showing his genitals to Maya, waterboarding, hanging the guy by his arms, starving the guy, making the guy poop his pants--and showing the audience, locking the guy in a small box, denying the guy anything to drink, smacking the guy and on and on. SICK!

Then at 18:29 we hear, “They (CIA) have the name of the courier in their files since shortly after 9/11. That is something that came out of the reporting I did.”

Hello?! Almost an entire act on torture when the idiots at CIA can't even find their own damn files for almost a decade.

Trash of a movie. CIA propaganda on the benefit of torture as a new level of product placement. Disgusting.

We wonder who might be able to use this movie as a recruiting tool against us?

rosebyanyorhername  01/20/2013 03:15 PM Report

sorry a typo there contained ...

' ... they're are just too many whose integrity won't allow them ...'

shoulda been 'there' instead of 'they're' of course

rosebyanyorhername  01/20/2013 03:09 PM Report

whoa ...

i link charlie rose to get some 'highbrow' input

y'know smarten my own self up a bit reading comments of

fair minded hi-q types but

reading these posts about 'zd30' are every bit as scary as any i find at youtube

bigelow isa film maker; the story interested her as such

she went after it and made her movie

one i found quite impressive

she seems 'normal' to me not part of the cia or any conspiracy

not every person is a cia plant or convert and

believe it or not not every tree has a spy hiding

behind it - BOO!

then again maybe all you ct-ers are right and 'they'

(big govt) lurks behind every door

but honestly i don't think so

they're are just too many whose integrity won't allow them

to participate in all the cover-ups necessary to pull off

these diablical plans

it's a movie yeah it has a p-o-v but is it propaganda? no

furtive  12/27/2012 07:09 AM Report

Osama bin Laden’s (aka Tim Osman CIA Bundler) interview with Ummat, a Pakistani daily, published in Karachi on September 28, 2001:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children, and other people.

Such a practice is forbidden ever in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children, and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel...

Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed.

According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the US government has stated. But the Bush administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the US system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive..

Then there are intelligence agencies in the US, which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This funding issue was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger.

They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usamah and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush administration approved a budget of 40bn dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance.

Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the US secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the US Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other US president, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who made the attacks...

The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which make us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/interview-with-osama-bin-laden-denies-his-involvement-in-9-11/24697

I met a woman yesterday whose husband was a 1st responder at the WTC: She said "everybody knows the Towers were an inside job"...(to pass the Patriot Act which voids our right

of protection against search and seizure without a warrant..

are you a sheep or a shepherd, readers?

furtive  12/27/2012 07:03 AM Report

listen to this audio explanation of Usama bin Laden: fact v fiction and propaganda v. truth:

http://vimeo.com/55673270

finalfantasytown  12/13/2012 08:00 PM Report

I begin to believe some of Gods have left after 13th century when I gradually losing my curiosity in intelligent history, determined by Gaia. If it is true, Gaia has defect.

finalfantasytown  12/13/2012 07:49 PM Report

I am thinking the blood relation between Trojans, Islams, and Christians.

furtive  12/11/2012 02:59 PM Report

Ms. Bigelow was quite reluctant to discuss the true story..perhaps because she realized during research and production bin laden was an already dead corpse and this take out was a ruse to change the subject from obama's phony pdf birth certificate 2 days earlier.

obama is a sociopath; bigelow's loyalty caused her to be entrapped. she has a rude awakening.

obama is lying about benghazi and about sarin gas.

he will continue to lie until he is caught.

sad that he is involving so many in his conspiracies.

obama is so arrogant, he believes the world is his oyster, that people are stupid and sheep.

it is a relief ms. bigelow has woken up..but her lie is undeserving of any film award, and if she wins, she should confess that the storyline was fabricated to suit obama's desperations for staying in the white house.

read this, ms. bigelow:

http://pieczenik.blogspot.com/2012/12/al-qaeda-resurfaces-in-timeless.html

Gelles  12/07/2012 04:08 PM Report

REMant writes below "And, no, I didn't bother to watch this hour."

If REMant did not watch this hour, he can catch it on the archive we are addressing. It is the best Charlie Rose hour ever offered to this audience.

Director Kathryn Bigelow and screenwriter Mark Boal are as bright and articulate as anyone alive. And they love the human race as much as the best of us.

Charlie Rose is also in top form for the whole hour.

Nine-eleven changed the world and especially it changed America. It changed it for the worse--after all we discovered that 20 odd scumbags could twist the world's exemplary strong democracy into a pretzel out of fear. We should have prevented the attack. We should certainly prevent a repeat. But our political economy is so bent out of shape, we cannot, it seems, streamline homeland defense and put the fear of God into suicide terrorists so that the chance of another attempt to attack this nation is never attempted by anyone ever alive.

You may think we've not got the tools to do that in spades for sure, and without sacrificing human rights of Americans or anyone else.

As to the actual hour of CR conversation, it covers how the team concerned made so great a movie it will win every award, including the 2012 Oscars awarded early next year.

But the show does much more than that. It allows you hear an artist director and highly skilled reporter/screen-writer give you hint of how great is this nation and this generation of film-makers and patriots whose contribution to democracy is of the highest order.

Every work spoken in that hour, and every scene we are allowed to see ahead of going to the whole movie, is a gem. Do yourself the greatest favor an audience was ever offered, watch this hour on the this archive and later report of how you better understand the attack of 9-11, the workings of intelligence and counter-intelligence, the importance of a free press, the destiny of America in the very near and foreseeable future, and the debt we owe to heroes and heroines who defend us every hour of every day and ask in return no more than others ask who love this nation and the best people who define it.

I am writing now on the Amazon economics forum. Their software invites infinite post-send editing. Rose could borrow it from them if had the wisdom to ask.

As for anyone who sees the show I'm praising and sees the movie later, he will be rewarded in his lifetime with TV and a movie of an order rarely seen. You will than me profusely. And you'll never miss another CR show because your loss may be immeasurable.

REMant  12/07/2012 12:27 PM Report

Shortly after bin Laden was taken or murdered depending on your POV, the media reported a number of films about it in the works. Not surprising, that's the way they work these days, the public apparently liking to vicariously experience news, having so little contact with reality on a themselves anymore. Not surprisingly either, despite attempting to locate it in the panoply of Hollywood myth-making, the LA Times reviewer seems unable to fathom its meaning, tho temptingly suggests it has something to do with feminism. I was tempted to ask which general Ms Bigelow is involved with, but apparently she was a woman. These folks, anyway, apparently won the race, and highly appropriate for Dec 7, too. The Fed'l govt can take a decade to do anything, or even nothing, incidentally. And, no, I didn't bother to watch this hour.