Charlie Rose

Gelles  09/24/2012 02:24 AM Report

To a reasonable degree the West is a Christian civilization. It is also a secular civilization. These adjectives, 'Christian' and 'Secular' may normally suggest opposites. But, as Christian people become interested in science and history, they become both secular and Christian at the same time.

Jewish people are the same as Christian people in this respect in most situations. So a Jewish State will also be a secular-humanist state and place for modern moderate Muslims of the kind that live happily in the West.

This will take time and generations of living at peace.

Why this so, when Palestinians are currently more interested in war than peace, is on account of history. As historical identities change, the need for war changes as well. America and Canada are pleased to love each other as neighbors. This was not so after the American Revolution.

A Palestinian State seems OK. And so does Israel, as a Jewish State -- which may have to relocate Muslims to decent living standards outside the borders of a future Israel.

This would be something new. But it would be a good idea if it happens. What about Christian former Muslims? And just how Jewish would Jews have to be? I was once told that if a non-Jew throws his lot in with the Jewish people, it makes no difference that his mother was not born a Jew. Throw your lot in with the Jewish people and be a 'mench' -- and peace will take care of the rest.

'Peace' in the Jewish language is the way you say 'Hello'. Hello.

JimBullis  09/23/2012 02:31 PM Report

I hope to suggest to Thomas Friedman that there might be a problem in our habit of looking at China through our myopic eyes when it comes to green.

It was the young girl at the 'green' design school who pointed out that we were dirty for 100 years and now it is their turn. Venture capitalist John Doerr quoted a Shanghai Mayor saying, roughly, "Why should we hold back our progress so you in America can continue to do stupid things?"

Hard facts are that they commission a coal power plant every month and even more importantly, they continue to buy copper at an amazing rate, that being proven by the price of copper, now, and the fact that they buy 41% of the world supply of this industrial indicator.

It was an awakening to me that China holds that they are capturing and sequestering CO2 by establishing massive standing forests. This is no side comment; it is a leading item in their equivalent to a State of the Union annual report.

Looking at whether we might find some benefit in a similar project, leads to a need for a whole new approach to water distribution in the US. We could do a National Water Project that enabled universal irrigation. That could enable a massive increase in agro-industrial production. And now I note that this is what China is doing with their dam project; largest in the world I think.

Not only does water enable massive forestation, it also enables massive conversion of under-used land into highly productive farm land. A continuous aggregate of crop mass, as with orchards, would also capture and sequester CO2.

So maybe we should not attempt to impose our renewable energy thinking on China. Neither should we mis-read the Chinese interest in producing such; after all, it might be mostly for the purpose of selling this questionable green hardware to us.

We need a National Water Project to invigorate our economy and we need to adapt to a new agro-industrial era with new equipment. The Miastrada Dragon on youtube shows an example of how we might rethink our farming methods, yes, to enable jobs that people will do. But we need to encourage the National Water Project by signing a petition at www.wh.gov/DzBD

vongleichent  09/23/2012 05:32 AM Report

Great point about the Olympics versus Egypt who wouldn't be able to pull this off.

Dasein  09/22/2012 03:05 PM Report

And then Friedman slips into the hubbub... "a bi-national state" where "some people will NOT have the right to vote." That sounds like a democratic dictatorship-the ultimate fate of Zionism. Nice future if you can get it! A one state solution, a la the USA is the answer, Tom.

mabraham  09/22/2012 05:42 AM Report

As usual, 20+ minutes of Freidman is a waste of time.

ShalomFreedman  09/21/2012 05:46 AM Report

The 'Arab Awakening' is apparently a 'Muslim Brotherhood' awakening. Considering the values of the 'Muslim Brotherhood' the chance that they will enter Modernity is extremely small. Consider the issue of the role of Women in society as a major factor here. Tom Friedman talks about the backwardness of fifty years when in fact it is a backwardness of a thousand years. This is a world that has not left the Middle Ages.

Friedman talks quite ridiculously about a mass movement of Palestinians and Israelis for Peace. The great share of Israelis want Peace and are willing to make land concessions to get it. The Palestinians have shown again and again that they are not willing to recognize and live in Peace with Israel.

I find contemptible Friedman's remark 'Nice work if you can get it ' about Israel as a Jewish state. The only reason Israel was founded was to be a Jewish state. Here he conveniently distances himself from his own Jewishness and makes himself the wonderfully balanced neutral observer who nonetheless repeatedly distorts 'reality' in order to show both sides 'equally responsible' for the Arab- Israeli Palestinian Israel Islamic Israeli conflict the Palestinian- Arab- Islamic side is the culpable party in.

EyesOnYou  09/21/2012 03:01 AM Report

Thomas skirted the 'Arab Initiative' issue without saying "Israel NEVER looked at it", not for one second. Why? Because they want land, not peace.

As for war with Iran, forget about it. Reading the comments from Israeli papers, I wouldn't give them the time of day. NO MORE WARS. Our blood and treasure won't be spent to buy more land for Israel through wars. Iran getting nukes will put Israel off it's pedestal, which is exactly what's needed.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  09/21/2012 02:12 AM Report

Yes Thomas, what is Obama burning to do if he gets four more years?

Defense--keep the Republicans from repealing what he did during the first four years.

Offense--continue healthcare reform while focusing on prevention.

A green bubble/revolution would be nice too.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  09/21/2012 01:47 AM Report

Thomas tells us that in 1950 Egypt was way ahead of China and now Egypt is 50 years from putting on the kind of show that China produced for the Olympics.

Yes Thomas, Egypt may feel bad about itself when it looks at China but not having bread to eat is the real driver to violence.

So America supports their terrible leader with millions of dollars. America uses more than its share of the oil so prices are high. (Food prices are directly linked to oil prices.) With pains of hunger they then learn that America holds nothing sacred including what they feel is most sacred. Death to America.

Really not much of a leap now is it?

SharkswithfrikingLazers  09/21/2012 01:33 AM Report

Yes Thomas, if the China dream is the same as the American dream—a big house in the suburbs and a big car and a Big Mac then they are going to burn up, choke up, heat up and smoke up the planet far faster than Al Gore predicts.

IT IS A ZERO SUM GAME!!!

China, please do not follow our lead.

richard-lipscombe  09/20/2012 09:50 PM Report

Tom Friedman needs to take a break - I suggest that he do some original (PHD like) research and come up with some new ideas if he can... At present Tom is a broken record on his old ideas - he is talking about 'Yesterdays tomorrow'

In his current mode hubris overwhelms him...He needs some ideas, any ideas frankly, about 'new ways of living today' Good luck Tom I would like to see you come back and not to remain a shadow of your former self (intellectually not physically -ha, ha, ha)....

China is a place where hundreds of millions of people are grappling with new ways to live today...This is a major reason that this will be China's century...Bye the way,not all of them want to get out of Dodge City and not that many want an American 'Dream' Lifestyle - perhaps just the ones you talk to Tom...Anyhow....Where will hundreds of millions of them go - if and when they become rich?

The number one issue in America today is shocking results of k-12 education...it is falling behind that being provided to kids in the rest of the world - including Europe...

The result is that America is fast becoming a nation of the working poor...

the following comes from the NY times....

"Matt Ely, 25, who works two restaurant jobs as a server and a cook in Green Bay, Wis., laments that even after a 53-hour workweek, he still lives “paycheck to paycheck.” Mr. Ely had enrolled in technical college, but toward the end of his program it did not seem likely that he would find a job, so he dropped out to save tuition money.

He is opposed to the Republican plan for tax cuts for upper income earners, but does not think Democrats have good ideas, either. “They’re all a bunch of rich people that I really don’t feel like care about me anyway,” he said."

America is in decline - America right now is a great example of 'Yesterday's tomorrow'....Americans have to stop looking back to yesterday for their insights and stop looking forward for their salvation tomorrow...America has to look for new ways to live today...

cheers, richard.

davidhamber  09/20/2012 03:50 PM Report

When Friedman tells us that the humiliation of muslims is one of the central reasons for their violence outrage at western film makers, cartoonists, novelists, etc, I can't help think of the words of Figaro from Beaumarchais's Marriage of Figaro written in 1778: "I cobble together a verse comedy about the customs of the harem, assuming that, as a Spanish writer, I can say what I like about Mohammed without drawing hostile fire. Next thing, some envoy from God knows where turns up and complains that in my play I have offended the Ottoman empire, Persia, a large slice of the Indian peninsula, the whole of Egypt, and the kingdoms of Barca [Ethiopia], Tripoli, Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco. And so my play sinks without trace, all to placate a bunch of Muslim princes, not one of whom, as far as I know, can read but who beat the living daylights out of us and say we are “Christian dogs.” Since they can’t stop a man thinking, they take it out on his hide instead." Those lines from Act V, Scene 3 of the play were written more than two centuries ago.

Max83  09/20/2012 02:22 PM Report

Thank you Mr. Friedman for stopping by in Spokane on September 4th for the Gonzaga Presidential Speaker Series. I did not go to the event myself and I heard that there were some problems with the audio system, but I read the transcript of your speech: http://www.gonzaga.edu/about/mcculloh/presidential-speaker-series/thomas-friedman/transcript.asp

I really appreciate you traveling to the ''province'' :-) and bringing some ''Weltbürger'' flair to the less populated and busy areas of this Nation. We need to have people like you heard throughout the land not just through channels like the Charlie Rose Show, but through in person events like at Gonzaga to educate the populace and move forward this society to a better and brighter future.

I know your stay here has lifted the energy and awareness of Spokane.

I hope we can welcome you back to the ''Inland Empire'' in the future. Thank you again Mr. Friedman.

REMant  09/20/2012 11:27 AM Report

I'm glad I don't try to read the Times, because if I did I'd never have any time left, I'd be so busy rebutting. In that connection... Ppl who want to make a bundle are always ppl without a country, without a community, without a family, without a spouse... and frequently without any sense. The fellow who said women can't have it all didn't likely know the half of it. The world is, according to some authorities, actually cooling, tho I have no doubt the Americanization of the planet is not a good idea. Turkey is mostly Islamic, last I looked, and it doesn't have any oil. I think the problem for Saudi Arabia is more what it does between now and when it runs out of oil and gas, (about the time the Social Security runs out of money). And perhaps the prospects for the Palestinian situation look better now than they have for a long time, precisely because everything seems to be so fractured it may either give some moderate types an opening, or as I think Thomas L. suggested, will allow things to just drift to a conclusion. I don't know tho if I'd make the same claim for this country, but it's a thought.