Charlie Rose

Noblesage  09/16/2012 09:40 PM Report

Noblesage to Neil McAllister -- in due respect

When, where and why did “Societal Chaos” begin; --68 years ago?

Sixty –eight years ago, on the morning of June 5, 1944, I was 13years old, having breakfast before going off to school in Brooklyn, when I heard the breaking news that the English Channel was swarming with War Ships headed towards Cherbourg Harbor and Normandy Beach to launch General Eisenhower’s D-Day Invasion, to end Hitler’s European occupation and ambition towards World Domination.

I can recall the evening when the news boy was hollering “Extra, Extra; -- read all about it; U. S. declares War on Germany” I remember vividly the Sunday morning, while sitting at my kitchen table when we heard the announcement of Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor.

As kids, in our vast neighborhood regions, the screaming sirens could be heard wailing, -- echoing their sounds from miles, demanding that the entire Borough enter total darkness, while the Air Raid Wardens walked the streets making sure all lights were out during Air Raid Drills. From the high roof-tops we would marvel at the giant spotlights panning the skies. We would watch the fighter planes during the day, --a good distance away over Floyd Benets Field -- practicing ‘dog fighting techniques.’

The coal trucks would deliver the Bituminous or Anthracite coal to steam-heat the buildings etc., -- in the 23 family buildings. The ice man delivered the ice and kerosene. In those days every adult was employed to care for their families after the “Depression Era”.

The War kept a busy economy building -- and in motion. Jobs in my neighborhood included Ice cream factories, Clorox Bleach Manufacturing Co; - Broom Factories; Telephone Co. employment for all the ladies that wanted work; Pickle packing factories; -- A freight Yard that delivered Live Cattle, Hogs, and Sheep 5 blocks away from the “Slaughter House” a half block away from my house where the processing of the fresh killed animals would take place before being shipped to warehouses.

The ships in and out of the New York, Brooklyn, New Jersey and Staten Island Piers and Docks kept thousands of Longshoremen working 24/7; --the neighborhood laundries performed family Laundry service hiring lots of people. There was order and optimism in the societal community.

Schools at elementary grades levels had well qualified older and skilled craftsmen teaching,-- woodworking, carpentry and sheet metal crafts; -- music teachers instructing in developing skills of various instruments; --historians that were generally world travelers; many coming from War torn Countries with sincere ambitions to build future critical thinkers in the youth.

When the War ended, these neighborhoods abruptly “Demised” overnight; and the G.I. Bill did not equitably favor all of the returning military men, “justly,”-- in these communities. The specific tenement owners and their returning “servicemen-sons” were offered attractive incentives to purchase new suburban homes, -- receive loans and relocate to Spacious, exclusive areas in Long Island N.Y., where the education of their children, in newer environments was, attractive and promising; -- and where heavy industry and available work in Grumman Aircraft and Republic Aircraft Aviation firms offered benefits for those select people but not for the average abandoned neighborhood dwellers left behind in the older neighborhoods built before World War 1 and the late 19th century. Those structures became prohibitive and too expensive to maintain.

The neighborhood businesses and home owners abandoned entire communities and the Long Island Railroad became the conduit for the large scale growth of a new breed of middle class entrepreneurs to enter the cities by day and leave at sundown and cultivate a promising new generation of exclusive ‘mentalists.’

The quality of Education in the inner cities immediately dropped; - the political ‘remains’ was in disarray; -- the banks were not honoring loan applications to the remaining residents to improve their neighborhoods, start business or to have legitimate opportunities to advance. The G. I. Bill did not benefit the returning soldiers in my old neighborhood like many others around the Nation’s major Cities, -- all suffered the same plight. The Demise was “Uniform.” The communities became cesspools and depositories of high crime and controlled poverty with an essential need for Jobs and improved education standards. The communities have been designed to become “Consumer and Welfare Communities” governed and manipulated to remain handicapped economically and socially and where illegal drugs are delivered by the tons; -- Communities that have become “Consumer Industries.”

The “Societal Chaos” has been spreading like a cancer and is affecting everyone everywhere -- slowly and aggressively without conscience or accountability; --where extreme attitudes are building and murder has become a style of dramatic expression anywhere. The Gang problems did not start in 2008 with the start of this administration. The Administration should not be considered as reasons for this Nation’s difficulties.

The Wall Street Culture has played a sophisticated roll in the International Confidence Games that stretched into the greedy banking systems abroad and its detrimental effect has caused the birth of many “Hidden Diseases” that require the World’s most qualified Political Physicians to Cure.

Noblesage  09/15/2012 04:59 PM Report

Response to Comment

Noblesage

In respect to your views regarding the “State of the Union,” I chose not to enter the why’s and where-for’s of the real subject at hand; -- that is of the President himself and his accomplishments or lack of.

My focus was largely in terms of Mr. Jonathan Alter’s choice of words and my view that ‘its’ blind effect was not cushioning an already deteriorating social order. We are responsible to put forward the incremental components to Save the Union; even though I don’t take ‘lightly’ the ‘pros or cons’ of what the President has done since he accepted the responsibility of managing the affairs of the Nation.

My ‘Point’ having been made previously - I need not visit those ’same-ol stations’ again except where it might support an opinion directly regarding “reality.” Again we should note that we are obviously separated by an “aisle” that will not be resolved of certain convictions on either side of it at this time. Dialogue is the call of the moment.

I have abstractly imagined a mile long -- curving outstretched line of huge solidly weight blocks of re-enforced concrete standing about ten stories high and 20’ in width; -- about 1’ -6½” thick -- set-up like domino.’ Neither of the ‘Blocks’ is anchored but has been quickly placed without proper regulations regarding their foundation’ in order to maintain the sturdiness of each one. They stand about ten feet apart.

Along comes an unexpected storm (Like Katrina) and breaches the structure of the first up-right. It falls onto the second and the rest is History.

Now the task at hand is to re-right the structure’ because their existence and placements are essential to conditions that make their purpose meaningful to a more “grandeur picture.”

I guess well will have to start again at the beginning by raising them one by one as we prepare the foundations into which they will be based. This kind of downfall must never occur again.

The work then begins by entrenching the first massive depth before the careful raising and setting of that first weighted wall is readied for its permanent place. All of the rest of the work is dealt with the same importance,-- governed by strict and efficient bureaucratic oversight, --- never to be repeated again. This restructuring demands the best of engineers to the final, vetted clean-up crew.

Now we don’t need to be instructed on realizing that, from, the blueprints to the go-ahead to the actual work to the final inspection; - that essential “TIME” would not be a factor.

I might be a simpleton in drawing up this principle -- but mathematically it is, -- In principle, -- a sound example.

The Nation did not begin to “Fall” short of Efficiency in the year 2008 and I for one am not siding with the President because of “WHO” he is. I do realize that many unforeseen circumstances emerged since his inception into Office – compounding the challenges he walked in on -- and it should not be too difficult to SEE/ADMIT that the job at hand did take on further break-downs. Now I am confident that the work of re-establishing the foundational structure of this Nation will be of benefit to the whole.

That’s one man’ opinion; --And of course we are entitled to voice our opinion’ respectfully.

I can feel a strong sense of obligation to point out that when we speak and say things in haste of the moment – they can roll out ‘quickly’ and be construed in ways that produce unintentional consequences. But when we write we have the opportunity to edit our thoughts any number of times and more. I’m confident that Jonathan Alter has reviewed his remarks.

As writers it is intended that we create images and atmospheres that will emphasize the points we focus on and sometimes graphically so.

Your commentary responding as feedback to my remarks -- speaks of a President that has many dark corners and strikes on a note depicting a Man that carries’ a questionable character as President of this Country. It was not my plan to open a personal attack on the President anymore than he has already experienced but to illuminate the comments uttered by a respected Journalist and a suggestion that his words have given rise to interpreting the Office of the Presidency with an initial incitement to disrespect the “Office.”

I believe that we as matured adults should stick to the depiction of issues with a curtailment of the looseness of words that can create further tensions and turmoil. We can stand before each other twelve inches separating us face to face and speak our views with strength of conviction and never lose focus of the immediate issue being discussed or lose our focus because of emotional distractions but display the virtue of listening. In the end we will gain higher ground because we dared to listen to the noise.

Regarding Rev. Wright; -- at least he has not flaunted his past controversial statements or did he seek to keep that spirit alive and distract from the bigger picture’s confronting the Nation. This Country has not been a perfect Parent to its children but we maintain a stability of Love and Patriotism simply because we are part of it and there is nobody with “onions” large enough to alter that obligation -- rightly calling upon us to move this System forward -- objectively.

A Parent can ruin the life of a child by careless use of words and live to regret it for many years thereafter.

The recent actions of disrespect by a group of foolish individuals against the “Father of Islam,” -- not understanding the Psychological sensitivities of the Islamic World has caused the development of destruction and wastefulness World Wide by a horde of fanatics not knowing/understanding the PRINCIPLES of NATION BUILDING.

We are not perfect beings but are imbued with the gift to act in accordance with choices that promote the ideals upon which we are duly “Constituted by our Constitution.” It is a lifetime of discipline that demands our self dedication.

Building a more “Perfect Union” requires enormous discipline and we are up to the task or we are not. It takes lots of work to build anything and much less time to take it down. We have a choice.

This Nation is still in its Adolescence.

NeilMacCallister  09/12/2012 12:40 PM Report

I see that "Noblesage" mentions no cause for the development of "this sensitive time of political polarization and societal chaos".

My I remind him that America elected a United States President whose friends shouted "G. Damn America!", who himself refused to place his hand upon his heart for a playing of the "Star Spangled Banner" (..he said our national anthem glorified war). A candidate who set himself in among painted styrofoam columns at his acceptance speech, ..who promised to balance the budget, but once he became President he instead overspent his budget by $5 Trillion dollars !!!!

$5 TRILLION DOLLARS !! ..and we confused and bewildered people now standing in the unemployment line wonder "What was it we got for all that money????"

This same President then returned a gift bust of Winston Churchill to one American ally, ..and has just refused to meet with another American ally who has just been told by their terrorist enemy that the terrorist enemy is "almost ready to wipe them off the planet"!

You are right Noble, for some reason, there is now more "societal chaos" in our nation and our world than at any time in the more than 68 years since our world's crashing and smashing conflagration on the beaches of Normandy.

Is it not "prudent" to consider why?

Noblesage  09/12/2012 04:52 AM Report

Mr. Alter -- interpreting the relationship between former Pres. Clinton and President Barak Obama, suggestes - in a very undignified manner,--that Pres. Obama --(in need of Clinton)-"crawled back to him in order to help him (Obama)over the finish line."

I think that his description of the specific relationship between these two exceptional leaders, of the Nations Highest Office, was grossly disrespectful. In my opinion, the phrase expressed by Mr. Alter, at this sensitive time of political polarization and societal chaos in our Nation, appeals to the more negative tendecies in 'man' and does not portray a 'responsible' effort to promote a dignified illustration of illustrious virtues to better benefit the more latent potentials in critical thinkers. The style of some journalists presenting themselves as untouchable and immaculate beings without frailties -- is deceitful.

In this instance I might prefer a more prudent choice of wording -- than the 'negative image producing phrase' of "CRAWLING BACK." It creates an image that does not enhance or promote a sense of dignity and respect for any President of the United States, but instead presents the reporting and discussions of 'News' to appear as 'common-place'--and not to be recognized as veracious.

We are not speaking of 'low-life street crawling characters' that might fit that mode of referencing. My goodness --- We are referring to the Presidency. I have had great respect for Mr. Alter in the past but he has alerted me to pay closer attention even though I will not dare to condemn him.

NeilMacCallister  09/11/2012 11:53 AM Report

A "republic" is "a nation of laws, not men" -- I thought we were ALL "republicans"?

Democrats prefer to elect a "King", a person they choose to "pick the winners" -- hoping or knowing that they have the favor of that King.

Our modern-day "King's nobles" are the 30-yrs-in-office Congressional "Lords", our labor union "Dukes", and our public employee "Generals and Captains".

It is a tragedy that America is descending BACKWARD into feudalism -- with Barack Obama.

Gelles  09/11/2012 02:13 AM Report

On assuming his presidential duties, and responsibility for performance of our economy, in January 2009, he and the world knew we faced a deficit in demand -- globally -- and everyone was deciding to do nothing about it,scale-wise, to put everyone to work and sufficient debt-free money into circulation to whip deflation and prevent hyper-inflation from getting started.

Four years later, he asks for more time to fail. He ought to be fired.

Yet, to fire the president who failed should not require us to elect someone worse.

In this archive is damn little about demand and never a word in debt-free money (based on production -- not loans and debt alone).

If America declines and freedom is eclipsed, most of those who voted wrong and ruled foolishly will be punished. But so will those who didn't.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  09/10/2012 11:47 PM Report

Yes, from Denver we had promise and now from Charlotte we have patience.

So when do you pull the plug on patience because you have lost faith in promise? Four years?

Yes! Unless there are reasons not to: it takes time to unwind a real estate bubble of this magnitude, there are plans in place that will work in the next four years, the crooks on Wall Street--and their illegal behavior--have been stopped, the obstructionist party--that has made history with their obstructionism--offers something fiscally wonderful.

So you see it is a mixed bag with no clear choice.

The October Surprise should be a clear plan.

(It is too bad Americans Elect failed the country.)

SharkswithfrikingLazers  09/10/2012 11:29 PM Report

It is said that the human body completely regenerates itself every seven years.

Bill Clinton is completely regenerated as a vegan, with a repaired heart and a really powerful wife.

Perhaps the old Clinton died on the surgeon's table and we have the new and improved version.

Loved his speech. Sorry to read by our fact checker friends that he played fast and loose with the numbers.

blank  09/10/2012 10:32 PM Report

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/05/us-white-house-threatens-veto.html

or we can follow the republican plan to become like syria

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19538585

i read a study (which i can't find right at the moment i think it was in 'the week') where the results showed most anti government people dislike their own local governments (who really literally are the closest representations of themselves) and therefore try to shut down the national government - that's the pattern

so it seems like the first step is for all of us to look in the mirror and better ourselves (it seems like people are projecting their own personal decline onto others)

if we want results we need to be creative at the local level step things up and do better i think it's the only way (truthfully just for your own well being how effective is blaming others i went through that for years and never accomplished anything only further self destruction)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19552701

anyway this is a lesson that i need to take -> i don't feel like me posting messages here is very effective or worthwhile especially when i'm specifically NOT addressing real true important unrelated problems in my own personal life that are critical life and death and unrelenting - that i actually have control over and can make a difference with - which are preventing everything - and therefore helping in a bigger way - everything is out of order

it's very serious i just felt like i needed to follow up on the other message i posted - with further info - where currently the link doesn't work - (i think when i'm doing better i'll be able to accomplish everything - i'm unable to think clearly at the moment - so sorry for all the posting)

i need to take steps in order to think rationally about things and take effective real and active steps (and if i'm dead set on destroying my surroundings i need to take time to truly look at myself and understand what has led me on this suicidal self destructive path - which is in no way the case for me i can say definitely)

richard-lipscombe  09/10/2012 07:15 PM Report

The truth is America is in steep decline under Obama and it will continue if he is re-elected...Romney might turn it around - no one knows...but what we do know for sure is that Obama can/will not stop the decline of America...

The real hope and change in America is at the State and Local Government levels...there are some fine young leaders from both sides of politics coming through...what is so refreshing is that both Republic and Democratic are doing essentially the same thing - cutting the size and reach of government...

what the guest here do not talk about is America's place in the world...it is all navel gazing and speculation at times about where ones navel is....

America is facing a changing world - global shifts of power to Asia and Brics...America is leaderless at the national level...Obama has no vision for America because he sees it as a collection of community-based issues...Obama is an issue politician who should not be in power at the national level because he does not govern for all but for his special interest...it not surprising to me that Obama that detests Romney...Obama has never had the success that Romney has had and he never will because he is a victim who covets other victims whereas Romney is a success who strives to help others to succeed...

the most telling criticism of Obama is he can not keep good staff....they are not loyal because he is loner not a team player...if he was a loner with a big bold plan we could all understand his mission but he has no plan...

America will struggle to survive the mistake of re-electing Obama...a weak leader with no vision... the hope is that one of the fine young leaders, either Democratic or Republican, will come to set up the country for success for the rest of C21st..the good news is that America will be in such a mess after another four years of Obama that they will have a free hand to reform...

Charlie Rose if you think America is in bad shape today just wait - another four years of Obama will bring problems that Americans have not seen for generations...what a needless waste of potentially the best country in the world...

President George W Bush started the decline of America and President Barack Obama is accelerating it! What a shame....

cheers, richard.

Dasein  09/10/2012 05:21 PM Report

These guests and the host are cryptocrats.This is carefully "scripted spontaneity." But even so, reality seeps in. For example there was Rose's wistful "something more" comment when it was apparent to all that the Obama menu in blank on the inside. Sorry Slim, it's all high white here-no chance of bringing any criticism of Obama's failure to talk about race in any meaningfull way. No specifics please-it's like that restaurant in Spain (now closed) which serves you what you want, only they have already decided what you want. And sorry Whereisthejournalism. Facts are too irrelevant to be relevant when the great ones speak about the Great One. And Remant. On this show history is the last thing to count when history is being made by these savants in real(virtual) time. As Baudrillard said... History is too obvious to be true. Why are you still talking about that history. This show actually previews in real time all the history you need to know. Enjoy, all!

whereisthejournalism  09/10/2012 04:14 PM Report

I have never seen such a lack of journalism, such an anti-factual stance on this show in all the years (12) that I have been watching it. Charlie continually cut of Alter and at one point, as if he had been appointed to do so, the NYT writer (I would not call him a reporter) got up and tried to equate the Republican and Democratic congressional majorities since the Gingrich era. He intentionally (I assume, unless he highly ignorant) glossed over the FACTs that in fact showed the majorities to have behave in highly significant ways. Is this called "fair" and "balanced" "journalism?"

First and foremost journalists have to hew to the facts.

I was so upset and disappointed with Charlie here. In fact coverage of the Democratic convention rarely rose to the level of actually discussing facts about Obama's administration.

I have to wonder of Charlie is a deep-seated racist or if the underwriters and Bloomberg have taken over. Charlie, you have lost a viewer and I am sad about it.

REMant  09/10/2012 02:52 PM Report

I'm sorry I didn't think Clinton much better than Christie and Glenn Kessler of The Post REALLY "took apart" his speech: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-bill-clintons-speech-and-other-de mocrats-at-the-convention-in-charlotte/2012/09/06/55b9df68-f7e1-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_blog.html I do agree with Alter that Obama has given away a lot of money to his constituents. But a great amount of the New Deal is plainly unconstitutional, and the Fed's fundamentally fiat money forces it down everyone's throats. Woodward's new book says that Obama simply looks down his nose at opponents like Boehner, whom he likened to cigar-smoking, golf-playing, wheeling and dealing state senators. That plainly hasn't helped him in relations with Congress, perhaps even those in his own party.

The problem with Obamacare was not that it was passed, but the form in which it was, and how. A lot of that probably had to do with the timing: postponing it might have made more ppl feel it couldn't be afforded. I don't disagree with the general idea behind the president's program, just the notions that it would pay for itself simply in the act of spending the money, and that the govt knows better how to accomplish these things than anyone else.

However, mercantilist-Keynesian-bankers, like Krugman, have always believed that when an economy runs out of steam, it is because it ran out of coal, not that the engine needs an overhaul. And any such suggestion is prone to get labeled "puritanical."

I think what these two guys are trying to say is that the president would be better off not trying to contest the election in the usual fashion but talk about what he is doing and why and assume the public is smart enough to understand it. I said this, myself, at least two years ago.

Slim  09/10/2012 01:22 PM Report

This is my last post on this site. It surprises me, it probably shouldn't, that all my posts concerning obvious race bias in this country and the media were taken down. No notice or reason from the site. They just disappear with no trace, except in my memory. Apparently "1984" is here, just a little late, and run by special interests and money, not "big brother" government.