Charlie Rose

ChongSunWah  04/15/2012 12:31 PM Report

The Zionist Mission is not just to create a Greater Israel but to prepare for their Messiah to come back hence the Alaqsa Mosque got to go. But how that's the question?

The bombing of Iran will help them to achieve this objective because through the chaos while bombing Iran they will just bring the Alaqsa mosque down just like what they had done to WTC Building 7!

Please visit http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com

ShalomFreedman  04/15/2012 12:05 PM Report

Among the many recent articles discrediting Beinart is one today by Daniel Doron in 'The Jerusalem Post'. Doron is especially angered by the slanders of Beinart in regard to the ethical character of the the Israel Defense Forces. Anyone who has served in it as I have knows how it makes special efforts to avoid civilian casualties on the other side. Beinart's false presentation of the character of the Israeli Army make him to my mind especially reprehensible.

nbarkan  04/14/2012 05:34 AM Report

I must agree with DP Chinitz. If Peter Beinart is truly concerned with preserving the democratic character of the State of Israel, then he should move to Israel and bring his astute analytic skills to the Israeli people as a citizen, and not as a bystander from the diaspora. As a citizen, he will have the opportunity to direct his children, who have presumably been inculcated with the values appropriate to a liberal democracy, to those combat units in the IDF which he claims (wrongfully) are populated primarily by settler elements within Israeli society.

topazgirl  04/10/2012 02:53 PM Report

...Sorry, I may have interpreted REMant's paragraph incorrectly... I thought him to mean that Netanyahu wants "the liberalism, without the liberality", not Beinart. But I could be wrong... REMant's beautiful words can, at times, be a bit convoluted to know for sure...

REMant, could you weigh in here, and clarify, please?

No, Gelles, you are exactly where you are supposed to be! Your left-leaning heart is counter-balanced with reasoned and intelligent investigation on all sides of "the issues"... Very little dogma from you! I hope, and strive to be the same, for I know MY liberal heart can sometimes close my eyes to a few stark realities... I wish more folks would come down from their extreme "ideological perches" and meet us somewhere in the rational middle! I appreciate your insights, and think nothing but good from them.

Thank-you <3...

Gelles  04/10/2012 07:50 AM Report

DP Chinitz and Topaz Girl offer reasoned comment.

DP says, if all Jews went to Israel, their numbers would offer better odds that a "Jewish" state can last long enough in Arabia to be permanent.

Topaz Girl says now is the time to talk, do not make war more likely.

Gelles says marry each other -- hybrid people may be healthier and less at war with each other than tribes who will not marry outside their numbers.

Shalom says stay the course.

Max the German says the dream may die.

REMant says Beinart, the young Jew, may want liberalism, without liberality. I am certain we all want to be thin without curbing our appetite for food we like. But I fail to comprehend REM's comment on Beinart. I am left and liberal (using my own definitions). My sympathy is with Netanyahu and his late brother Johnny, hero of Entebbe, not with Peter Beinart. Does that impeach my liberality or my liberalism, or both?

One thing is sure, racism is bad for all tribes and races. But it is also common. Peace is good. In the past, marriage between Kings and Queens often helped bring peace. A long passage of time can be a help. America and Canada took their time becoming the great friends we are. Netanyahu has in the past thought that after a very long time, peace might bless these two neighbors.

I am told China wants fixed exchange rates and America wants floating rates. On this account China and America may someday hate each other's guts. For the moment, intermarriage between billions of Asians and their neighbors across the Pacific will make us all look Asian. Smoother skin, straighter hair, higher marks in school.

We cannot blame China. We Europeans went East. Genghis Kahn went home.

dpchinitz  04/10/2012 04:39 AM Report

Beinart, like J Street, is a reincarnation of Breira in the sixties, Americans for Peace Now etc. There is nothing new here, and if he has fifteen minutes of fame, let him enjoy it.

But what perplexes me is an intelligent interviewer like Charlie Rose not asking: Can you explain to me how if you care so much about "the gift of a Jewish Democratic Israel that you received from your parents and grandparents" is so important to you, you choose to live in the US as a media star, rather than move to Israel to make a difference?" By the way, he could ask the same of AIPAC leaders as well. Israelis will be a minority between the Jordan and the Mediterranian whether there is a two state solution or not, and that is largely due to those who "care", like Beinart, staying put in the US rather than putting down their chits on their principles. All the rest is air.

topazgirl  04/10/2012 04:36 AM Report

I copy REMant's last paragraph here because I think he/she made a very important statement:

"No one believes Netanyahu will ever abandon his lifelong commitment to the occupation of the Palestinian territories. He is hoping for a neocon in the White House. But his position is fast deteriorating, which is what disturbs Beinart so much, because it appears [Netanyahu] wants the liberalism, without the liberality".

That is the unfortunate truth... In 1949, much of the World was in favor of the Jews setting up and organizing their own State. They had long suffered, and deserved a safe, democratic place to finally call their own. This area was a logical place for them, as their historical roots began in the region... But there was a huge hitch in their plans... the Palestinians were there too!

I do not want to negate the amazing strides Israel has made since 1949... They have thrived as a democratic society, with a bustling economy, and the highest standard of living in the region. But over the years, as their military power has grown, and with US backing, they have felt entitled to take over more and more of the region, eventually marginalizing the Palestinians in their own land. To me, it looks nothing short of colonization...

As long as the government of Israel closes its eyes to their settlers taking over more of the West Bank every year, Israel will never realize the security it seeks and hopes for... The Palestinians are rightfully pissed! As the US has a large assimilated Jewish-American population, and the concept of democracy is so ingrained in us, we have strongly embraced their cause. At times, I feel, this may be to their detriment... We have emboldened the Israeli's feelings of entitlement to "take what they want", with no repercussions.

I hesitate in saying much of this; anti-semitism is a powerfully ugly word, and many times pointing out Israel's flaws in this regard can get one accused of it... But truth needs to be pointed out, for Irael's own good!

I love Gelles' ongoing theme of the "Golden Rule"! This is what Israel needs to heed, and fast! Palestinians are as angry at their own leadership's failure to help solve this problem, as they are angry at Israel. The prospect of a "Palestnian Spring" will be the Israeli's worst nightmare! They have been sowing those seeds for decades, and it may soon become their future reality if Netanyahu does not sit down with the "Authority" and Hamas, and seriously discuss what concessions need to be made to ensure both people' futures... And the US needs to take a strong stand for this, and quit caving in to the fear of being considered anti-semitic if we do not agree with the Israli status quo. We do them no favors by supporting every move they care to make...

ShalomFreedman  04/10/2012 04:02 AM Report

Beinart's ethical arrogance is matched only by his political ignorance. Were he at all concerned for the true consequences of his remarks he might look at who is supporting his demand to boycott Israel. He joins with the Islamists, the neo- Nazis, those of the Radical Left , the long- time haters of Israel and its would- be- destroyers. He calls to boycott what is arguably the most patriotic, and dedicated population in Israel, the Jews who live in the Biblical homeland of the people of Israel, Judea and Samaria ( The West Bank). These are people who contribute to Israel in many ways, not the least in their disproportionate service to the defense of Israel. Beinart defames Israel while claiming to be defending it and liberal principles. But how? By demanding Israel make Peace when there is no one to make Peace with. The last three Prime Ministers of Israel have said they would make territorial withdrawals and help create a Palestine Arab state. Their offers were rejected. Even today there is no Palestinian group ,including the allegedly moderate Fatah, which draws a Middle Eastern map in which the state of Israel has a part in it.

His actions and his words are irresponsible and moral.

PS If you read the Talkbacks on this site or any other site you will know the kinds of people who support his views.

Gelles  04/10/2012 01:48 AM Report

A Zionist who is an "American", who may be Jewish, Christian, or a humanist who believes in science more than miracles, and who may favor a fairer deal for the have-nots and more obedience to the Golden Rule for the "haves", may wish Arabs and Muslims, too, love Jews just as he or she does.

Such a Zionist American may also wish very few Arabs and Muslims hate Jews and hate Israel even more.

Such Zionist Americans may also wish all Jews who want to come to live as Americans would be invited to do so and would add an industrious population to the industrious America we already have.

All of these wishes are contrary to fact. The Jews of Israel do not presently enjoy the security everyone everywhere wants.

What should these Jews do? Follow Beinart? -- I say NO. Follow Netanyahu? I say, USUALLY.

If the object is survival, inter-marriage may help. Unless God, Himself, intervenes, without inter-marriage Jews may appear to be an ethnic group different from most such groups in America and the West. Jews may appear to be more like many unassimilated ethnic groups who do not favor inter-marriage as much as the millions of inter-married Americans who have mixed the tribes from Europe into modern assimilated America.

Of course the lives of Palestinians are precious and they should be made better by all of us. But if Palestinian hatred for Jews stands in the way, we should side with the Jews.

Many people claim, "In the end we will all be dead." That is also true. So, even if all my answers are "incorrect" by your lights, in the very end it will not make any difference. Such is an easy way out of these questions.

Harder ways suggest no picnic.

Max83  04/09/2012 07:07 PM Report

This is probably the most important interview I have seen on Charlie Rose so far. Thank you Mr. Beinart for speaking the Truth and writing your book.

If the stubborn, ignorant, arrogant and fundamentalist older timer bloc of the Jewish-American community keeps setting the policies for the State of Israel it may well die soon or maybe it has died already in its true form?

I am German, now living in the USA, and I am a supporter of the Günter Grass poem ''Was gesagt werden muss'', because it says in my opinion exactly what Mr. Beinart is saying in his book and in this interview.

The biased and shockingly unbalanced and primitive media coverage of this topic and Mr. Grass' work and person does not change this, it actually just emphasized and confirmed that the time is over-due to say what must be said.

If there is no change in Israeli foreign policy and if there is no softening in some factions of Israeli-American community towards the idea of what Zionism truly means back to its original roots, the State of Israel will become the number one symbol of hypocrisy and anti-democracy worldwide, which will lead to its decline politically as well as socially.

The majority of the world wants to see the democratic State of Israel thrive and not just survive and is more than willing and able to support this endeavor, but not if they are bullied into supporting the State of Israel under out-dated guilt trips of supposed anti-antisemitism that arise as soon as the policies of the Israeli government are not supported unconditionally, questioned or even opposed.

The Israeli government and the American-Jewish community are not the pinnacle of morals and ethics in the world, as aren't Germans or any other people or countries in the world, but if the State of Israel and some of the hardliners in the Jewish community continue to use and claim the moral high ground in all matters political and ethical, because what unfortunately happened to their people over 60 years ago in Germany, they will not find this support, especially not amongst the average citizens.

They might get the support of the political class temporarily, but this is inferior support as compared to the true popular support of the majority of the people.

In our globalized world only co-operation, tolerance and open-mindedness will lead to long-term sustainable peaceful and prosperous co-existence, and yes it is risky to take these steps and to be the first to open your arms to embrace the other, but there is no other option, and since Israel has military superiority in their region at the moment and the military backing of their American and even European allies it should be much easier to be the generous and giving one first and to open their arms first instead of demanding this only from others.

If the State of Israel and some of its hardliners keep being paranoid, fearful and bully-like they will reap what they sow.

This is a crucial time in the collective Jewish/Israeli consciousness and it will either brake Israel or make it even better and more loved than it is even today.

I wish the Jewish-American community the very best and the courage to stand up for and to do what is right and just.

From Mr. Beinart's website (http://peter-beinart.com/):

''Israel’s next great crisis may come not with the

Palestinians or Iran but with young American Jews.

A dramatic shift is taking place in Israel and America. In Israel, the deepening occupation of the West Bank is putting Israeli democracy at risk. In the United States, the refusal of major Jewish organizations to defend democracy in the Jewish state is alienating many young liberal Jews from Zionism itself. In the next generation, the liberal Zionist dream—the dream of a state that safeguards the Jewish people and cherishes democratic ideals—may die.''

REMant  04/09/2012 11:46 AM Report

Mark Levine, a professor at UC Irvine called this Beinart's liberal Zionist fantasy in a recent review for Aljazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/201232611482224476.html) i.e., that it hoped to reconcile Zionism and liberalism, as Beinart put it clearly here at the last.

He wrote a piece in the NYRB two years ago calling on the hardliners to return to what he felt were Zionism's founding liberalism before it risked losing the allegiance of youth, whom polls showed losing interest*, and this book is a continuation. It is not a very new theme, and it is, Levine notes, a decade, if not a century, behind the times. "It is," he says, "Beinart's inability to accept and grapple with what Israeli scholar Benjamin Beit Hallahmi has called the 'original sins' of Zionism that is the most important fault with his argument (indeed, his book Original Sins: Reflections on the History of Zionism and Israel, would be valuable reading for most liberal American Jews, including Beinart)," and Levine asks if liberalism of this kind, which also advocated the invasion of Iraq is itself worth saving.

No one believes Netanyahu will ever abandon his lifelong commitment to the occupation of the Palestinian territories. He is hoping for a neocon in the White House. But his position is fast deteriorating, which is what disturbs Beinart so much, because it appears he wants the liberalism, without the liberality.

*See M J Rosenberg, Israel: The eroding consensus http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/03/201131784045745152.html