Charlie Rose

SharkswithfrikingLazers  08/31/2012 07:21 PM Report

"So if schizophrenia is fundamentally a disorder of time, and that's what we're studying right now, that suggests entirely new rehabilitative strategies. Instead of pumping people full of meds, what if we could just sit them down and have them play videogames that recalibrate their timing?

So this is why studying very basic science things like time can really end up having a lot of importance for bigger issues."

FLATOW: Wow.

(LAUGHTER)

FLATOW: If it's - could it be that simple?

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/24/159998668/david-eagleman-gets-inside-our-heads

My vote is the pruning goes awry.

griffithas  08/31/2012 12:19 PM Report

Mr. Rose,

I am writing to thank you for your Brain Series on Schizophrenia. I had a son with this terrible disease and I now understand from the description of the progress of the symptoms that he was a classic case. Bruce died at the age of 43. I understand that there was nothing that I could do to help him and that it was not my fault yet as a parent it is hard not to beat yourself up about it from time to time. Your program was very helpful. Again, Thank you, Ann Griffith

jpke  08/21/2012 03:40 PM Report

Mr (Charlie)Rose,

You've had a series on the brain, brain "science" and psychiatry with various guests discussing developments and "discoveries" in their field(s). How about doing a show (or even a series) on a growing number of groups and activists in the field of "mental health" and psychiatric reform? I (and a growing number of others) believe it would be of great public service to broadcast in the "mainstream" media the views and work of individuals such as Peter Breggin, MD(author,psychiatrist), Jim Gottstein (atty, mental health activist), Robert Whitaker(psychiatric researcher and author), David Healy MD (author, psychiatrist), Ann Blake-Tracy(International Coalition for Drug Awareness), and others.

There is increasing, documented evidence on the harm done by the use of psychotropic drugs which should be made more "public".

There are also mental health/ psychiatric consumer (and "insider expert") voices rising on issues related to: Informed consent, coercion, disclosure, misrepresentation, false claims, conflict of interest, corruption, ghostwriting, fraudulent practice, physical/mental abuse, and professional ethics and standards issues in the psychiatric and mental health field.

Your response would be appreciated.

Sincerely, Jim Keiser

PS: I'm adding the following statements (by others) for your consideration and comment:

RE. DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS: "The thing that bothers me the most about psychiatry (outside of the harm done by its so-called "treatments") is the fact that psychiatrists almost NEVER look for underlying medical disorders. They just use their "Bible," the DSM, which is merely a collection of symptoms that could be caused by MANY THINGS. By not using differential diagnosis, psychiatrists are failing to practice actual medicine. Joe Blow off the street, with no medical training, could come up with a diagnosis after listening to someone describe their symptoms once he has flipped through the pages of the DSM. If I can accomplish one thing (and I have no idea of how to do this), I would like to create a standard that forces psychiatrists to do a thorough battery of medical tests before any medications are prescribed or labels given."~unk

___________________________________

STANDARD PRACTICE IN PSYCHIATRIC "DIAGNOSIS" AND TREATMENT (valid from my, and others' experiences):

"...Most people would agree that people need to (be) told accurate information about the validity of a diagnosis; including whether or not it is Biological in nature; or if this is a belief based on nothing more than a yet to be validated Hypothesis. Saying that a psychiatric diagnosis is a disease/chemical imbalance/neuro-biological in nature is a story told to 'bust the stigma' and to get people to take their meds; not because it is based on fact.

...Fraud is a crime, and also a civil law violation. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud, but there have also been fraudulent 'discoveries', e.g., in science, to gain prestige rather than immediate monetary gain. ...

...Most people would agree that people need to given accurate, unbiased information about the drugs prescribed to them and their children. Most of us would agree it would be wrong to tell people that they in fact have a disease/chemical imbalance or a neuro-biological condition requiring drugs to treat it; when no imbalance, disease, defect or neuro-biological condition has been identified. These claims are being made without any physical, neurological or medical examination taking place. A conversation with the person and gathering information from others about their personal opinions and subjective observation of the patient or 'client' is not an examination; and even a consensus of informed opinions does not make the weakest of 'evidence' scientific or valid; it does not make the psychiatric diagnosis a medical condition either. ...

The fact is: no genetic condition, chemical imbalance, or neuro-biological pathology has been identified ever--in any human being alive or dead; that causes any mental illness, or psychiatric diagnosis. ...

...Failing to give people the very information which is necessary to protect their children and themselves is particularly heinous; despicable really, all things considered. ...

...For professionals to ignore their ethical duty to fully inform patients and parents of children about the nature of psychiatric diagnoses, about the potential for harm involved in taking psychiatric drugs is criminal; not just 'unethical.' It is, in reality fraud...

...This being the case, it is an unethical claim for any psychiatrist or mental health professional to make. It is dishonest, it is disrespectful and it is evidence of an utter lack of professional integrity. ...

...Many believe the drugs are treating a disease, because of the erroneous belief that doctors don't lie to patients. People take neurotoxic drugs believing that the drugs treat a brain disease they have. The drugs cause iatrogenic, or 'physician caused' diseases, neurological impairments, and can disable them; and even cause their untimely death. ...

...It is fraud. It is Standard Practice. It is criminal. "~from article in Systems of Care Yakima

dianrib  06/03/2012 07:19 PM Report

Charlie , Thank you for all your high quality shows You are an oasis in a TV wasteland.

My dad had schizophrenia since I was 13. My mom did not handle it well, so childhood was difficult and confusing.

I worried for years I would inherit this sickness . Thankfully at 69 I have not. You and PBS are a treasure.

Regards

Interestedparty  05/14/2012 11:28 PM Report

Charlie - extremely interesting series. Can Dr Kandel discuss what we have learned about the links between involuntary brain and body functions - IE; are those generally less affected by genetics, aging, etc than any of our cognitive brain functions and if so, why? I am wondering if human development suggests some basic brain functions which are less variable than others ?

mtoggweiler  05/01/2012 07:44 PM Report

Thank you Charlie for this show. The subject of schizophrenia so needs more public airing. I have in a very personal way been researching it for more than 40 years: having had a father with the diagnosis and an older sister whom I closely witnessed deteriorate over years through various diagnoses until finally being dubbed schizophrenic.

What I observed was what I would call a very definite "software" component to the condition: it would surprise me if many persons regardless of their genetic (hardware) profile could have endured the chronic and cruel emotional abuse I witnessed and its attendant life stresses and avoid a serious psychiatric diagnosis. To survive such relentless mistreatment mentally intact, a victim needs to find, during a crucial window in time, a person or persons where they can come to feel safe and cared enough to share and face the agony of their experiences. Such a person was not available for my sister within the extended family, the practice was to deny, ignore and minimize the impact the mistreatment portended. The failure to functionally address abuse is a characteristic of the greater family social system, which itself is strongly influenced by the values of the greater society. In this way at least for some, an aspect of schizophrenia can be seen as a social disease, a social software virus if you will: not everyone gets the diagnosis, but those who do would not come to that point but for the social dysfunction around them.

The show mentioned the likelihood of numerous types of schizophrenias instead of a single disorder with one very specific genetic profile. While there very well may be a largely genetic route for some schizophrenics, for those where social environment, i.e. their software programming, was the dominant causal factor, some relief may be found in the pharmaceutical lab, but a true cure never will be.

Where social environment was the cause, a transformed social environment will also be the cure. Charlie's show was a meaningful and necessary step in inching toward that transformation: many more steps throughout our society for years to come are needed. And we all, especially those of us who have been in some way touched by this tragic condition have a responsibility to make that happen.

Danny Hurley, I salute you for your courage. If you happen to read this, I would very much like to open a discussion with you. I can be reached at: mtoggweiler{at sign}hotmail{dot}com {spam crawler protection}

shelby99  04/06/2012 04:48 PM Report

SHMD

Ditto that.

SHMD  04/05/2012 11:50 PM Report

Altho the panel was generally impressive, it was appalling to hear Eric Kandel- so interpersonally inept that he suggested that advances in genetics would allow women to terminate pregnancies where a fetal diathesis for schizophrenia was identified. He said this apparently oblivious to it's impact on the young man with schizophrenia who was sitting around the table with him. This reflects the true limits of biological reductionism.

blank  04/04/2012 01:37 AM Report

i'll watch this later it might have been my loading but this was cut up repeating words and taking segments and putting them out of place and not having the words match the video it got pretty crazy

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12269

blank  04/04/2012 01:36 AM Report

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12224

this all looked pretty cool but "8 Spruce Street" i don't know about that

the MAJOR issue is the low sound quality of this show on this website

22hz stereo (AWFUL) - this is like eating powder sugar and nothing else

donuts

(it should at least be 48hz mono [stereo - HIGHER] 256kbps - would only add 25% to the file size)

561kbps (597)

102kbps

256-102=154

154+561=715

154/561=.275

154/715=.22

note: look up ti bolts crank bolts torque wrenches park tools

rakstagemom  04/03/2012 01:45 PM Report

Thank you for your thoughtful coverage of a diverse range of brain-related disorders. As the parent of a child with a mental illness, I am saddened that many in this country ignore life-threatening illnesses like depression that can lead to devastating consequences like suicide when not promptly and properly diagnosed. In recent years, coverage of autism seems to have eclipsed coverage of other, no less significant, brain conditions. In many cases, such as depression, the disorders being ignored are far more prevalent. It's time we work with equal fervor for children, teens and adults affected by both autism and forms of mental illness including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety and more. Health care, education, research funding and community supports should be equally available to all youth living with brain disorders, not only those living with autism. Families of children with depression and other types of mental illness also make extraordinary sacrifices for their children and suffer grave financial outcomes due to high costs of care and limited career options compatible with parenting a special needs child. I encourage media outlets to give generous,comprehensive coverage to autism during April, which is autism awareness month -- and then to give equal coverage to childhood/teen mental illness during May, which is mental health awareness month. I encourage legislators and others working to improve life for people living with autism to be sure they offer the same support to people with mental illness. And I hope to see future reporting comparing the relative prevalence, cost and such for autism and depression. When diagnosis and treatment of mental illness is improved, we will all benefit from a society with lower school failure, higher employee productivity, reduced crime and substance abuse, and healthier families. Thank you for inching us closer to a world in which all brain disorders are investigated, understood and treated.

TLS  04/03/2012 09:45 AM Report

A mostly good show. What's missing: new evidence that the so-called "new generation" of medications often don't work much better than the old ones; a better explanation of what is meant by "environmental factors" (eg: the 1 in 100 rate of schizophrenia predates airplanes and harnessed nuclear energy); and any real recognition that schizophrenics are not helped by pharmaceuticals and scientists alone.

When I listen to Danny, I hear my son, also schizophrenic, also brilliant, also lost to endless nonproductive and/or anguished hours of daily existence. My son also "presents well" when he has to, for short periods of time, to let others know he is a worthy human being.

I'm most moved by Danny's willingness to speak his truth. I'm glad Charlie thanked him for it. I'm thankful to Eric for clearly stating that schizophrenia is not a behavior problem.

Charlie: if you do another show on this topic, please involve the innovators outside hard science--counselors, occupational therapists, family members, friends and support groups that know firsthand what it takes to keep a schizophrenic from homelessness, incarceration or suicide.

A good start; Danny is right: we need a nationwide discussion to increase understanding. I think Charlie asked why there's more attention paid to autism than schizophrenia. I'm not surprised none of the experts knew. It's because autism is nearly always detected in innocent children; schizophrenia is almost always an adult disease. We suspect that the adults are just lazy, self-absorbed and indulgent and when we're not fearing them, we're judging them. Changing that would help schizophrenics lead healthier lives.

CRome3  04/02/2012 11:14 PM Report

I created an account for the sole purpose of letting Danny Hurley know how much I respect and admire him. I don't believe my brother, equally intelligent, gentle and loving, would have been able to present his experience, and I am very grateful that you helped people better understand your, and his, challenges.

Sysyfus  04/02/2012 05:41 PM Report

I really admire Danny Hurley coming onto the TV program and sharing his story and i sights with the public. Would strongly encourage him to write a book about himself and what his experience has been. i eleieve he has a great deal of insight that would really help everyone - the layperson and the professionals- to learn more and gain insights from his first hand experiences.

BRAVO for your willingness to share with us.

Thanks you.

Conn47msm  04/02/2012 05:26 PM Report

The schizophrenia forum was very understandable../

I was shocked in some of the information--that people would gather to speak..

I really appreciated the explainations--of the brain-

Listening for the captialistic--mention of placing people in such situations--never seemed to appear..

I think this is the most realistic approach--I have seen as a TV-viewer..very impressive.

shelby99  04/02/2012 02:57 PM Report

Based on the date of his Master’s Thesis in 2005, Danny Hurley may have flown to Europe in the summer of 2000. If this is true, Danny may have been at 35,000 feet during a massive solar storm that could have impacted a vulnerable brain that does not mature until age 25.

During the last Solar Max, in July 2000, the earth experienced a Solar Proton Event with a proton flux of 24,000. The highest proton intensity recorded since 1976 was 43,000 pfu (protons/sq. cm-s-sr) in 1991. The July 2000 event was ranked as #5 in the Top 20 Radiation Storms since 1976 (NOAA GOES) and #30 in the Top 30 Geomagnetic Storms since 1932 (Potsdam Running Ap).

Protective nutraceuticals before, during and after an airplane flight is recommended. For example, blueberries increase dendritic spines as reported in the 16th Annual International 'Stress and Behavior' Neuroscience and Biopsychiatry Conference (2011). Ionizing radiation reduces dendritic spines in the brain. Reduction of dendritic spines in schizophrenia was described by the panelists. If the physician is not trained in nutraceutical remedies for ionizing radiation injury then the patient should be referred to a specialist.

----------------------

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/745317

16th Annual International 'Stress and Behavior' Neuroscience and Biopsychiatry Conference (2011)

Dendritic Spines Respond to Stress

Caroline Helwick

Ellen_Dibble  04/02/2012 11:33 AM Report

Gelles, I'll have to read more closely your comment, but I'll just say here, noblesse oblige. If wealth meant responsibility, as in the old days of the lairds in the castle and their serfs, then some of the rich would have and deserve the kind of respect and honor that once accrued. Nowadays, it seems that being rich ("that" rich, beyond having a house and mobility) means power. It does not mean responsibility. It's an issue of values.

As to getting a real good idea of how a schizophrenic brain works, I see Dr. Kandel is coming up again on Tuesday. Danny did great. It was very interesting. I'd like to say that I spent a summer after my freshman year in college as a volunteer Service Corps member at a state mental hospital in 1965, living in the nurses quarters, and going swimming together most nights, listening to some psychiatrists a few times, explaining. We went to a week of "camp" with a few dozen of them, rowing on a lake alone with a very sweet schizophrenic (or was he just a semi-misfit?); I recall one woman trying to explain to me that she was a compulsive thief. Another had been whacked over the head by someone in the Mafia. We spent the day, and in those cases at camp the night, with chronic schizophrenics, and some had had lobotomies, so I'm not sure why they were in the ward. And I'm not sure how much they were drugged. Some were epileptics, and we could see how the color green caused a fit (or do I misremember?). I remember the one who "had" a little dog that would follow him around and nip at his heels as he sat (alone) in front of the TV. I remember him trying to explain to me why he always gnawed at his hand. He had no vocabulary, or no speech, but would gesture. He knew I felt helpless, but he was trying to say "I'm here; I want to explain things to you." It was very moving. I don't think our college-age healthful presence was contagious to them, which was the general idea. They were a set of about 100 very serious and perplexing quandaries I am still thinking about.

Gelles  04/02/2012 02:02 AM Report

Shalom Freedman~

The disease that individuals suffer that impairs their brain's ability to cope with moods and problems is tragic from start to finish.

But, many of us see a collective schizophrenia that keeps our language and our law tied to conditions that prevent proper attention to this tragic disease.

If we cannot reduce collective causes of social schizophrenia, curing individual schizophrenia becomes far harder. I know the Brain Series Part 2 is more about the brain than the collective "brain" of society. But the two are closely connected through language and habits. At least that is my opinion and my worry.

Gelles  04/02/2012 01:44 AM Report

Ellen~

Change is wanted:

..... From less than full employment --> to full employment. Here, there, and everywhere.

..... In addition, from less than full DEMAND for all our needs (in the form of money enough to buy them -- and production enough to put them on the shelves, or otherwise for sale) --> to full DEMAND, here there and everywhere.

So that's the CHANGE we voted for when we elected our current president in 2008. He never really tried to explain the change we voted for -- or to force his government to deliver the goods -- to deliver meaningful CHANGE.

Masses in the street ought to be there because everyone needs a job and everyone needs to produce enough and purchase enough to evidence the high minimum standard of living high-technology stands ready to achieve.

Yet nothing like this is implied by a balanced budget. Budgets today imply taxes. And taxes create opposition by those we ask to pay them. I understand most people are mixed up by tax laws thousands of pages long. Such complexity should be seen as evidence of a bureaucratic legacy that prevents progress. We need jobs and output from work. Taxes may not be needed at all. Certainly, the corruption that taxes cause is not needed.

I believe we need a system for collaborative writing and agreement on agendas for middle class success by raising everyone below it up to middle class standards -- and by allowing the rich to have all they have presently accumulated. The huge new wealth we can create via robots and automation can raise the bottom and not lower the top.

Suppose no one believes the above claim. I say, then we have to prove it. I do not think we can take away a fixed pie from the rich -- nor do we have to. We can multiply the pie many times over if we allow demand to pay for supply by introducing full employment of labor and capital into every system that has less than full employment and less than an efficient and an effective way of getting the best results.

The book "Abundance" by Singularity University co-founder Peter Diamandis tells these facts at great length. They are the real truth. Legacy budgeting and deficit baloney only confuses all issues.

ShalomFreedman  04/02/2012 01:35 AM Report

This show is a true public service. I commend Charlie Rose on his considerate presentation and his closing words to Danny Hurley. All the expert presentations were clear and interesting. But I don't believe even the excellent presentation by Danny Hurley gave a strong enough sense of the horror of the disease. For anyone who has known a person who suffers from the kinds of delusions and paranoia that schizophrenia brings knows that person lives in an incredible nightmare world which no one else can really perceive. It is heartbreaking to know a person who suffers from schizophrenia.

Ellen_Dibble  04/01/2012 03:51 PM Report

Gelles, somewhere on Sunday morning talk, they were talking about how it was not Johnson or "his" Congress that passed Civil Rights; it was mass mobilization on the issue that demanded (and got) an attitudinal change, or attempt at it. The idea was that we see legislative gridlock, and lo and behold we voted for that. The idea is masses in the street could demand a balanced budget; nothing else will do.

How does that relate? Marching gets effects even without a million platforms? Was the Occupy movement? Was the Tea Party movement? How much effect do you have when addressing your senator or his staff, or for that matter the local committee on this or that, or town council -- unless you are stating a case that's already achieved orbit.

What I've noticed is that if I have a consistent point, I can persuade one by one on this board or that, and I find that by whatever social ferment process, bit by bit, sometimes suddenly, sometimes fast, the discussion begins to shift. I sure don't do that by myself; it's everybody doing their part that makes the difference. I do get impatient, but so it goes. I find I have to risk being wrong about this or that, "going off half-cocked," exposing how I'm semi-informed, all those deficiencies teachers warn against, but I find that most Americans are also working with similar deficiencies, and we can only do our best -- or nothing at all.

Gelles  04/01/2012 03:34 PM Report

Watch TV 3 hours a day. Write to forums half of that amount of time. Eat for the same time that you write. That takes up 6 hours. Sleep for 7 hours. The other 11 hours are for you. Don't forget exercise and chores.

Gelles  04/01/2012 03:27 PM Report

listener0123456789 ~

Do you listen to more than you watch?

The brain is material, the mind is what works with language and other means of communication. I believe we all have that straight. Each is a different "thing" -- but they share a single materiality; and bending them to serve our most pressing needs is what really counts.

Money is never is wasted -- until everyone is using brain and hands to meet their needs and we have no more slack in the system of production. Money that seems like it is wasted is like unearned profit to the rich: it allows for demand to match supply and keep us more content than otherwise.

Of more than a million in our audience, only a few write to these comments. And what they write is never mined for use. I guess we are pure noise in a pretty good broadcast exercise.

Gelles  04/01/2012 03:11 PM Report

The diagrams and images illustrating blood flows and electrical potentials inside the brain help us form rules of thumb about its usefulness in life,

The animal kingdoms have very advanced brains -- but their development of language to allow one generation to rapidly learn to cope with disease, enemies and death, and pass inventions on to benefit their species is small compared to ours.

Yet we seem to be progressing backwards more often than we like. The whole idea of "one man's cost is another man's bounty" does not seem to have made much progress from Adam Smith to Bowles and Simpson.

Is my habit of leaving out the typed word (when its mental sound made a good sentence as I typed) proof of my schizophrenia? Is my obsession over the space between sentence ends and question marks -- I like ? not? -- a sign of autism ?

This archived discussion may reach 500 comments. Is that a good idea? What is our immediate goal -- as the student body? and/or as the school's executive (Mr. Rose)?

I believe our aim is to improve the lives of the mentally ill. But many, like me, want to improve all lives -- of the ill and of the well, as well.

listener2345698  04/01/2012 01:12 PM Report

The real madness lies in trying to understand subjective human experience using the tools of the Scientific Revolution (empiricism, physicalism/materialism, reductionism, and so on); scientists will *never* (mark my words) find a "cure" for mental illness (nor a *simple* "cause", genetic or otherwise).

The brain and the mind are not the same thing, and the longer we blather on using these inappropriate tools for trying to make sense of the issues, the longer so much unnecessary human suffering continues and the longer tens of *billions* of dollars are wasted trying to "fix" people (note that I am not saying some people are not extremely disturbed, just that no one is a machine which can be repaired using (pseudo-)medical techniques.)

Ellen_Dibble  04/01/2012 01:12 PM Report

REMant, it seems that closer biochemical and genetic observation of healthy, developing, and sick brains will completely reconfigure the way, say, the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) -- any version -- classifies, and probably treats, the brain. That for me is the take-away from most of The Brain series. I'd like to say that if you think "irrationality" is part of some illness of the mind, you tend to lose me right there, since I cannot think of anyone who is not irrational in plenty of ways, plenty of the time, maybe not in the realm of polite, socialized presentation, but certainly elsewhere, and plenty of times in the public arena as well. Americans seem to revel in the irrational, the way the emotions generate so much energy.

Hmm. It was interesting to hear Hurley talk about watching 6 hours of TV a day because "it calms me," a close paraphrase. How does anxiety and other emotional strategies figure in this pared-down dendrite situation?

It was interesting to hear Kandel talk about the shrinkage of "working memory," which apparently makes it difficult to plan and anticipate, to put all the pieces together. Yet Hurley spoke of feeling a savior complex, that he had the weight of the world on his shoulders -- apparently with little or no ability to diagnose and execute a treatment for those ills. Atlas shrugged? But it sounds as if Hurley more evolved that limitation than tripped into it, and if the doctors are right, the nudeness of the dendrites began long ago, even before birth, so he wouldn't be having the feeling, "If I just ate my lima beans I would eventually be able to let go of the 6 hours of TV." He wouldn't have a set point (which I understand placebo effects rely on) to say two years ago, I was like this; go back -- because two years ago would have a premonition, a struggle, probably, in the brain to keep up -- witness his extreme success in academics. (By the way, I sure don't watch TV for self-soothing.)

Further, I'm not buying that the emotional and cognitive are easily split, but then I missed the first ten minutes. It seems to me that when my brain is put on the spot, reacting without a slow-thought component, it transcends in a way that the religious might define as the insinuation of the divine. What else to call it. If you can't give it rational explication, then you'd better not act on it, or even voice it, but what your brain did may be more than rational, ultra-rational, not less than rational. "Inspired." We may use that modality all the time and not be exactly conscious of it. The parts we put out there are the socially appropriate, ingrained, trained, "rational" thoughts, carefully calibrated to be seen and heard, to integrate with what all others within range will adjust to. It's calibrated to the thinking world; I guess we call that "rational" -- socialized. If the brain is working with less band-width, less working memory, it'll be less effective in that. You don't need Danny or others with a similar diagnosis for that. See me certain mornings before 8:00, or after I've had a deep whiff of tree pollen, something like that. The difference might be if you are ALWAYS operating with a distinctly different band width, you can never say, "Okay, now is the time to tackle this or that." And like most things in life, if you're lucky, you learn to delegate certain things, like maybe your planning, or your responses to people chasing you down the street, for instance, delegate that to others with easier access to broader perspectives. Good luck with THAT (the running down the street; think Trayvon Martin).

REMant  04/01/2012 12:21 PM Report

It is, I believe, fairly common for schizophrenia's onset to occur in the presumed stressful first year of college. The inference here, made more persuasive by the subject's repeated statements of his "grandeur," is that he in fact didn't find college as easy as he was led to believe. That may well be why kids are going around shooting their teachers and classmates, as well.

The fact is that we see schizophrenic behaviors in children, the elderly and "savages," all of whom are characterized by the absence of rationality. We see all sorts of "mental illness" in everyday behavior, in less extreme forms. If it is believed, as it commonly has been, that reason reflects a higher order of both evolutionary and personal development, we may see obsession to be only a mild form of paranoia. Fundamentally, they are distinguished by the inability to be both objective and self-confident, which psychological primitivists are going to have to come to terms with. Freud, who is anathema to most of them, even considered neurosis the price we pay for civilization.

It won't do to just pass off these things as "illness," meaning thereby, to be treated with drugs and surgery, having no behavioral implication, whether they involve genes or not. It seems quite clear that most of the problem in psychology, as in evangelical and Whig reform before it, is the result of attempting to find a way around recognizing the obvious fact that mental illness is simply regressive and thus we can't Job-like consider ppl sick and perfect at the same time, as if the illness came deus ex machina, from outer space. The mentally ill, incidentally, always feel they have no control over their conduct.

I'd point also to the difference between cognitive and emotional disorders is the context of the difference between masculinity and femininity. For instance, females are more what we, among Judeo-Christian peoples, at least call "religious," and such religious ppl are more prone to manic-depresssiveness, which I would consider only a milder form of the more general etiology. Males, to give another instance, are widely, and historically, considered to be less emotional and more rational than females. We find males in charge in less "religious" nations, and in fact it's reflected in their religious views, which are less manipulative. We also see autism being diagnosed in more boys than girls, and whether that's due to the incidence or the diagnosis wouldn't, on such an hypothesis, matter.

And nothing was mentioned here either about psychoanalytic observations which also, of course, dealt with gender differences. It is possible that what both paranoia and autism share is a reaction to socialization, rather than its insufficiency. A neurotic tries to manipulate authority. A paranoid defends rigidly against it, and while there is an element of self-destructiveness in both, in denigrating his doctor he may be exactly right.

Ellen_Dibble  04/01/2012 10:58 AM Report

Today IS April Fool's Day, and our foolishness vis-a-vis national health is on my mind. And I see Friday's show is up already, and I have a mental note to myself, chiefly from the end of the show, where as I recall, the doctors were pointing towards the next show, on autism, where rates of diagnosed autism have spiked, and certainly since 1940, when this disorder wasn't recognized at all. What shocks me is that all the scientists/physicians seems to be focused on altering the genetics, the damage done by the environment. They seem to concur that in schizophrenia (as well as apparently autism), there are a great number of synergies in play, synergies between genetics and environmental exposures (in the womb or later). And the genetics can surely be damaged by the environment as well. But who was focusing on addressing the specifics of the exposures, whether to viruses or pollutants in air, or in preserved and chemically altered foods, things we put on our skin, or merely touch. Just in terms of the Affordable Care Act, if we focus on modifying genetics, it seems to me we boost the cost of care, and the accessibility of that care to all who need it, whereas if we focus on identifying and controlling the "environmental" components, we could probably cut the cost to the national welfare and national budget far, far more effectively. What scientists and doctors are focusing on that?

Gelles  04/01/2012 04:57 AM Report

http://ustaxreform.us/.crs.htm links to related shows

Gelles  04/01/2012 04:15 AM Report

The purpose of the brain is to understand the universe -- not just the brain itself. If the brain does study its own performance and its purpose, it will eventually improve the culture that connects all brains to each other. We will always be unique individuals with some capable of understanding more or less than others. The "singularity" is proposed as a word to define a time when artificial brains will be as effective as living brains in the effort by both sorts of brains to advance human understanding of the universe. That time is fast approaching. But it may get here too late. We may all become dead a few seconds before the singularity. Visit Singularity University on the web. Read "Abundance" by SU co-founder Peter Diamandis. If SU has its way, brain science will be fully funded tomorrow and a lot of patients will live a better life.

Gelles  04/01/2012 03:56 AM Report

It'12:15 Sunday in the am -- just starting. I had skipped this show on TV -- but watched intently the replay here on the web. It was a marvelous show -- in that everyone was talking about a mental disorder that can be a disease BUT is very close to being NOT A DISEASE but only a possible cause for POOR PERFORMANCE in school or at work.

We live a long life in competition to perform well against others who are our peers. If we are imperfect -- is it on account of a DISEASE -- or just because we are not as good at our job as we would have preferred if this were possible.

Now what was the GIGANTIC ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM that we avoided.?

..... It was that the performance of our society and its institutions is SO LOUSY that any poor performance by people with less than perfect brain-power pales in comparison with our collective insanity.

The scientists on the show all seemed OK and heading in the right direction to tame the brain and its disorders over the nest millennium.

Charlie Rose, the pundit, is obviously ignorant about creating the jobs and treaties of peace he is responsible for -- in his capacity as the most important interviewer of big shots on PBS and Bloomberg?

So that gray area between the individual brain, character, talent, etc., and the collective effect of people on the legacies they leave for future generations, IS SO PROFOUND AND TRAGIC that we all get depressed just knowing of it.

Bina was stumped by the submit button. The staff running this archive will not clean up his mess until next week. Whose nuttiness causes that delay?

I notice someone is not yet in this discussion. He, the missed colleague, certainly exhibits delusions of grandeur when he races to post first nearly every day. I'd like to see some brain scans to explain why he does this and if his thoughts are abnormal.

My own delusions are also suspect. Brain science to explain individual variations in talent and performance will be interesting. How to explain the collective mal-administration of our laws, customs and performance -- especially at this TURNING POINT IN HISTORY characterized by DEFLATION -- will be daunting. If our institutions are truly crazy, like the Internal Revenue Code, how can we be sane as individuals?

I personally suffer from procrastination and the need to avoid all chores in favor of the easy life. This is on account of schizophrenia and bad habits. The cure is better nutrition with the help of Dr. Hyman.

I would also like the world to add inflation protection to all bank accounts. That would maintain full employment in order to produce the goods to back the money involved. Why would a sane world accept deflation when all it takes is controlled quantitative easing and federal spending to stop it dead in its tracks? If we mimicked WW II financial rules we would have enough money-power to advance brain science at an optimum rate. Charlie Rose must know that. He does not need pill when he can be one.

bina  04/01/2012 12:38 AM Report

Sorry. Obvviously, I was stumped by your "submit" button that didn't respond.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

bina  04/01/2012 12:32 AM Report

Hi. I just watched your Brain Series on Schizophrenia on the internet. I have been labelled a high-functioning schizoaffective. I take 24 mg/day perphenazine and 100 mg/day amitryptelene--for just over 20 years now. I don't have the Parkinsonian-like side-effects that I had on other phenothiazines, thorazine, navane, haldol. I'm an expert witness in the litigation of electric rates with an MBA in finance. I make about 130k/yr and am closing in on a 30 year pension. I tested at NIH in a study about 10 years ago for schizophrenics/schisoaffectives. 20 years ago I experienced delusions, depression, high anxiety. They thought I might have thought disorder because I jumped around in my speech. But that's not thought disorder. That's your brain running faster than your mouth. I've tested at an IQ of 142 in the second grade and later in my early twenties at IQ 156. I was a National Merit Semi-Finalist. First breakdown at 19 in my Junior year at Emory University. Many hospitalizations but I'd beat down the doors to get out by the 5th day. I did have the blunting of emotions and have hopeless thoughts still but am not suicidal as I've worked through my philosophical thoughts about life by this point in time. Social interaction required a push from frozen-stiff with fear in my teens to learning how to give compliments and not embarrass people at work who are wrong. I have a few friends and I have 3 sisters. And I have a spiritual relationship with my deceased parents. And I want a dog again. But my purpose in commenting is this. Why don't you try higher doses of perphenazine plus cognitive therapy. It worked for me. I've found exactly one schizoaffective person who has a professional career. She was a doctor at a NAMI convention who took a lot of other things. But even she didn't take as much perphenazine as I do. There was an article in the New England Journal of Medicine years ago about a research study that found that perphenazine works as well as the newer generation drugs like Resperidol. I don't know about clozapine because I've never had it. No hallucinations. But in dealing with young people who display schozophrenic/schizoaffective symptoms, you have to realize that just about anything is a live possibility --- why not? People believe in an after-life and God. So you have to separate out young adult hypotheses in their interpretation of their perceived world, from what "normal" people take to be reality. That's a whole learning experience of decoding people's intent in their conversations to get to the right understanding of the human aspects of love, deceit, treachery, absent-mindedness, etc. I didn't have any understanding of people at all. It took 30 years. Cognitive therapy for awhile. And then learning by observing. But I had to be told that observing is a learning tool. Moving from the literal to the vernacular and that once-mysterious "reading between the lines". I still get irritable, angry, dejected at times. I'm single. But have some great relationships in the office and with my friends outside the office. I just wish you people would try some higher doses of perhphenzine. Initially, I was prescribed 4 mg. That's ridiculous. On another note, I understand the Parkinsonian-like movements are absent with perphenazine because it has a different molecular structure (a parallel side-chain?) from other phenothiazines. Lastly, I'll mention teaching people organizational tools. I have no trouble writing 170 pages of testimony. But it took a girlfriend 20 years ago to tell me to make lists of things to do, to get me going and occupied during the day when there was no structure because I was on my own. Finally, good luck and thank you.

shelby99  03/31/2012 08:25 PM Report

There was an attempt to address the need to identify casual agents but no one on the panel commented directly on research currently available. It was disappointing but not surprising as the panel reflected the standard of medical care today. Environment was implicated as a probable cause or trigger of dysfunctional genes but there was no environmental expert on the panel. The intense focus on pursuit of funding for new and innovated genetic and biochemical research is very exciting and deserving but its success (or lack thereof) is at the expense of translational research and application of existing research data.

As much as I love Charlie Rose, he is not trained in scientific pursuits and does not know what he doesn’t know. Therefore, we all are being spoon fed only part of the truth, however noble. Environmental concerns are only being given lip service by the best minds in the country. It is like being patted on the head and told, “There now, don’t worry about the elephant in the living room.”

The question needs to be asked, “What environmental agents are known in be a risk factor for schizophrenia or other mental disorders?” Could anyone on the panel answer that question? If yes, then why not speak of it? If not, why not? There is enough data to support a recommendation of caution and preventive care for schizophrenic patients.

When a patient presents with the symptoms and diagnosis of schizophrenia, exposure to specific environmental agents needs to be ruled out. The patient should to be advised to avoid such exposure. If exposure is unavoidable then protective and preventive measures should be put in place. Medical schools and medical journals need to focus on educating physicians as to the currently known environmental risk factors for schizophrenia and other mental disorders. Elimination, detoxification and remediation for the acute and late environmental effects need to be added to therapeutic recommendations for schizophrenic patients.

So, what is the elephant in the living room? The brilliant Danny Hurley mentioned a potential environmental risk factor for schizophrenia in the description of his clinical presentation. He stated that after flying to Europe his initial onset of schizophrenia began. Then, on his return to the US from Europe he had another episode with hallucinations during the airplane flight. Danny Hurley is the person who should be paid the big bucks for neuroscience research. He was the only person on the panel who came close to identifying ionizing radiation as a risk factor for schizophrenia and other mental disorders.

Because ionizing radiation (IR) is a known risk factor for schizophrenia;

Because longer airplane flights fly at higher elevations and expose passengers to more IR;

Because psychosis occurred during increased exposure to IR;

Because long lived radioactive particles are concentrated in the food chain in parts of Europe due to nuclear fallout from Chernobyl in 1986;

Because rates of schizophrenia were elevated after Chernobyl;

Because Georgia Tech (where Danny Hurley attended school prior to onset of symptoms) has Nuclear and Radiological Engineering & Medical Physics Programs;

Therefore, ionizing radiation has not been ruled out as a causative or exacerbating agent in the patient and the patient should be advised as to appropriate lifestyle choices to prevent and reduce IR exposure, detox radioactive particles, and remediate for acute and late effects of radiation injury.

Kind regards

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http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/dsj/8/0/BR13/_pdf

DO LOW DOSES OF IONIZING RADIATION AFFECT THE HUMAN

BRAIN? K. Loganovsky

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http://journals.lww.com/epidem/Fulltext/2000/07000/Mortality_Among_Female_Nuclear_Weapons_Workers.174 .aspx

Standardized mortality ratios (SMRs) were elevated for deaths from mental disorders, …. SMRs for workers who were not issued a radiation badge were elevated for mental disorders…

cipguz  03/31/2012 07:13 PM Report

Thank you so much for sharing. My wife and I are living this situation with our son. The sad part is that our son graduated 4.0 and Suma cum laden in psychology.

Completed one year in Medical school; then Court, Hospital etc.

Is anyway this particular video can be share with the Police force? They need to understand what this illness does to an excellent person.

Thank you.

anne4444  03/31/2012 06:09 PM Report

Thank you for sharing the experience.

There are so many things in our world, which we still don’t know.

The 3rd eye vision is real. The answer is surely from high spiritual beings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewapKUCHXyc

He shall be very strong and very brave to grasp this opportunity, and then the knowledge of this universe will open to him. He should consider it as an opportunity instead of illness. Regardless, it is not easy life to live in two totally different worlds.

rpupkin  03/31/2012 05:28 PM Report

you're a good man, charlie rose.

aj617  03/31/2012 04:44 PM Report

I'm disappointed that there was nothing said about people who are

Scanofrantic with a touch of Kissafraidia. Folks who have

this problem develop odd little verifiable psychic abilities such as the power to coax a quiet crowd to cheer

a shy new band at a bar with a mild meditation. They also failed to mention the

best advice available to S...........s - "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get

you!"

tabs  03/31/2012 03:44 PM Report

Dr Kandel on an earlier show in this series stated that Talk Therapy is expensive and as such insurance companies limit coverage of this type of therapy in favor of drugs which create a condition of stasis in the individual. If the drugs are stopped the symptoms return. Thus the symptoms of the disease are being treated and perhaps not the root cause of the affliction as a cost containment by the insurance companies.

The efficacy of Talk Therapy as Dr Kandel stated again in an earlier show is that Brain configuration changes over time with Talk Therapy which would change brain chemistry. Thus at some point in time one may be able to do without taking a drug for the rest of their life? This may not be applicable in all cases, but should be explored if for no other reason than it might open some doors which would help alleviate a persons condition.

The question one has about Mr Hurley is that it was out of the blue that he was afflicted with Schizophrenia? There was no rational nor even a guess about the cause of his condition? For all we know it might have been a Mosquito bite that triggered it? In other words there was no continunity in this story, we are just dropped into the middle of it and are told what to believe. That one is helpless because it is a disease in which the cause is not known and the symptoms can be treated with drugs. Some where in there we are missing the existential story.

Perhaps the good Drs on the panel should take a chapter from Dr Mark Hyman about treating peoples afflictions as "process" instead of just treating the symptoms?

Ms Rapoport said something very interesting which confirmed something one had already believed. That is that each persons brain is unique, that no two are exactly the same....Thus each persons thought process , reasoning (interpetation of perception), and use of language would be unique to them as well. Yet on the structural, genetic or molecular level there are universal similarities shared by all men. Therefore if one is aware of those similarities as expressed by universal symbols and images then one can use them effectively not only in communicating ideas but understanding their concerns? The trick one would think is in being able to divine which symbols and images are unique and which are universal?

brentricheson  03/31/2012 06:05 AM Report

Being unable to sleep after this broadcast (and also due to other factors) I feel compelled to register and comment. "Because we need you here &" "For some of you this might be difficult to watch," preceding Tony Judt's final interview - fall with great gravity on these ears. Not many broadcasts have this much emotional impact upon me. Thank you to the host and to the participants for making the show what it is. As a person who suffers with a brain injury and/or disorder, Danny's story has the immediacy with regard to this post. In addition to the content of this episode and series I want to thank Mr. Hurley for his courage in contributing. Due to the weight of his participation I can only say that the content was worth the devotion of one, full episode. I continue to watch each Brain Series episode with great attention and I wanted to extend my compliments to each of the participants as well as the Simons Foundation and the production crew. Yours, Brent

SharkswithfrikingLazers  03/31/2012 04:18 AM Report

We also got to meet Elyn Saks on a previous episode:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyn_Saks

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11078

Is it me or can you tell something about mental health by looking at the eyes? Seems like when something is going on in the brain it is reflected in the eyes. I know when I get the flu my eyes turn glassy.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  03/31/2012 04:06 AM Report

Yes, with many, many drugs you just trade side effects.

So first generation drug you get out of the mental hospital but then no one really wants to be on the drug because you have Parkinson symptoms or other difficulties.

The second generation drug means you watch TV six hours a day to calm yourself and may get Type II Diabetes.

It does sound like something along the lines of the HIV drug cocktail may be the direction to take because so much activity is going on in the brain.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  03/31/2012 03:55 AM Report

Yes, I thought it sounded like a very profound finding:

Pre-frontal cortex is where we find the working memory. Pyramidal neuron is shaped like a triangle. Dendrites extend to convey messages. The Axon ends at the synapse. At the synapse are the dendritic spines which determine the amount and the richness of what is received.

In adolescence the brain reduces dendritic spines—those not helping with working memory. Schizophrenia may mean pruning goes awry--too much pruning. VERY PROFOUND FINDING. Excessive pruning is very difficult to treat because you are lacking anatomy. So stop the pruning quickly or find a way to regenerate what is lost.

I would think with the 60K concussions a year that occur with the million kids who play high school football you might have a ready made database for your work here.