Charlie Rose

epmeehan  07/14/2012 12:02 PM Report

Please sign this petition supporting Simpson Bowles:

http://www.change.org/petitions/congress-and-senate-use-the-simpson-bowles-report-to-address-the-fede ral-deficit-issue

Gelles  04/05/2012 08:47 AM Report

The following is my post, as indicated below, to the E O Wilson interview of April 3, 2012. It is interview 12273, if memory serves:

.

Admiral Rickover was asked if the human race might go extinct inside a cloud of dust left over from nuclear war. He said YES.

He was asked if that was not a prohibition against taking this risk forever and a day. He replied that if our species went extinct, a better one might follow.

In my opinion, the risk of nuclear war makes E O Wilson right -- and all his opponents foolish, nutty and disgusting.

..... Why get excited? Because when you add Rickover to Wilson you get empathy, and the determination to protect our posterity with our lives and minds, the winner.

..... The pleasure of neutrality in this matter, whereby our species decides that the power of chance trumps the opportunity of choice, is gone.

We must chose Wilson and empathy to enforce the Golden Rule. If the masochists among us triumph, the Golden Rule (where-under self-hate means hate everybody) calls for murder that amounts to suicide.

If the Wilson's among us triumph, it will be over the dead bodies of suicide bombers and the natural decline and ordinary death of their friends and defenders. (This accepts the permanence of Freedom of Speech of the type exhibited below.)

The US Constitution, Golden Rule, and Scientific attitude toward evidence and belief, are none of them suicide pacts.

.

www.ustaxreform.us/.crs.htm

Gelles  04/05/2012 08:11 AM Report

"but we will have no second chance if we do not escape it forever."

Gelles  04/05/2012 08:08 AM Report

Dear Ricardo ~

Thanks for details on Internet crazies and the next bubble we may expect to burst. I am an inactive member of Linkedin and Face Book -- but your post is a real help to put the nonsense together. I would like to go short on FB -- but the risk is too high for me to accept -- I do not like to lose. I have done well in the market -- but caution always ruled. Were I in charge I would use government lotteries to absorb the human taste for something for nothing. Capitalist investment capital markets are not IMO the best way to accomplish the production miracles waiting to be unleashed. Science, technology, engineering and mathematics are what we need. Business administration, law and economics need to come closer to STEM and get further away from error prone legacy notions.

I'm switching my posts to the CR Show interviews on empathy, biology, evolution and the future of mankind now being tested by events that cry out for cooperation between nations and peoples before its too late to end war and hate. We have escaped nuclear war so far -- but we will have no second chance if do not escape it forever.

Ricardo_Amaral  04/05/2012 05:35 AM Report

Gelles, you might enjoy watching this video:

January 01, 2012 C-SPAN – 2hrs 55 min.

Chris Hedges "Brace Yourself! The American Empire Is Over & The Descent Is Going To Be Horrifying!"

http://youtu.be/7zotYU21qcU

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Ricardo_Amaral  04/05/2012 03:54 AM Report

Gelles, I don't think that we both have gone mad.

But I am sure that the people on Wall Street have gone mad.

Zynga is a game company on the internet where you can buy a farm, or start your own city.

The company's top three games – FarmVille, FrontierVille and CityVille – accounted for 57 percent of online game revenue. Total revenue was $311.2 million for the quarter ending December 31, 2011.

Players can accept credit card offers, take surveys or buy services from Zynga's partners in order to obtain game credits, which would allow them to replenish their character's energy or receive premium currency that could be exchanged for other various virtual goods.

Players may also purchase game credits directly from Zynga via credit cards or PayPal. From within the game, players can purchase the points for a fee: US$5.00 for 21 game credits, for example.

In March 2010 Zynga started selling prepaid cards for virtual currency at more than 12,800 stores across the US.

This company started in July 2007 and went public in December 2011 and it has a market cap of around $ 10 billion dollars.

People are spending a lot of real money (if you still can call the US dollar real money these days) to buy virtual goods.

*****

LinkedIn is an internet rolodex that also has a US$ 10 billion market Cap.

Groupon is a company specialized in coupons and that company has a US$ 10 billion market cap.

But this latest internet bubble will reach its blow up point when Facebook goes public in May or June 2012 – they are estimating that Facebook will reach a US$ 75 billion to US$ 100 billion market cap right from its IPO.

That will be an extreme example of Wall Street gone mad, but the good news is that there are plenty of suckers out there who are willing to be taken for a ride.

“Goldman Sachs the Pillage People” stock is trading at $ 120 per share and P/E 27 – when that stock should be trading at most for P/E 14 that translates to US$ 63 per share – that stock should be trading at half its current market price.

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Gelles  04/05/2012 01:29 AM Report

Dear Ricardo ~

We both have gone mad. Your parody of internet illusions (that do exist in an unreal world similar to the one you see,) is pretty good.

But parody is not our aim. And you have left out the rest of the world's nations -- all of which are far worse in real life than the USA.

Part of the problem is the effect of natural competition. It outweighs natural cooperation -- by how much I'm not sure.

REMant competes IMO all the time. Yet we know he also cooperates -- for example he uses English not German or pig-Latin in this forum.

Chomsky wins intellectual ratings contests where the voters are very smart and left of center or apolitical. His opposite number on the right is not on the tip of my tongue. In fact I just don't know who it is. Right wing worship of a neo-liberalism embracing extreme rugged individualism, high interest paid by the poor to the rich, and rage against all Golden Rule suggestions because their motto is always "Screw You".

I am a believer in Parkinson's Law, "Salaried work expands to fill all accountable hours."

..... But I'm not sure of its Misery Mirror: "Fear and worry expand to fill all lives not yet overflowing with the mean results of bad luck."

Dystopia and Utopia are locked in political war at the moment. Although Utopia is within reach, fear of Dystopia is present wherever you look.

My plan to replace debt with money is obviously only a beginning. We may need professional optimists to make economic democracy work.

Ricardo_Amaral  04/04/2012 02:48 PM Report

Gelles, you wrote “I notice lots of typos in my last few posts.”

I also noticed many typos on my postings, but I just check and polish my postings when an article is being published on Brazzil magazine or other publications.

I love Noam Chomsky, and I wish Charlie Rose would bring him more often to be interviewed on his show.

http://thefinalcollapseoftheusdollar.blogspot.com/2011/06/noam-chomsky_8716.html

Here is what I just posted on the ET forum:

BRIC - the new emerging world superpower

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=238113&perpage=6&pagenumber=8

April 4, 2012

SouthAmerica: Mokwit, before you know "Embraer" will take over Boeing Corp. - the new company BoEmbraer...

What is left of useful US companies are for sale anyway - Budweiser, Burger King, very soon Boeing, and so on....

The new US economy will be based on Zynga - Americans will be able to buy a farm, in Farmville, and they also be able to buy real estate, in Cityville. Americans finally will live in a complete world of illusion. And they finally Americans will be able to conquer the world in this make believe world.

Americans will be able to connect to LinkedIn (the rolodex) and get any job they want since in that world of illusion you will be able to get a job as a rocket scientist, an astronaut, be any type of doctor, or even a policeman on Cityville and Farmville.

You will be able to use your Groupon coupons to buy anything you want in the Zynga world.

You also will be able to rate the restaurants, and everything else you want to rate using the Yelp service.

And this American make believe world of the future is what gives the value of Facebook of a possible 100 billion monopoly make believe dollars.

Yes, you will be able to use monopoly make believe dollars (the new US currency) to buy railroads, houses, apartment buildings, and so on in Atlantic City or in any of the Zynga Cityvilles.

Ben Bernanke probably still be Fed Chairman and he will be trying to blow bubbles as fast as he can with his new monopoly money; to inflate the prices of everything on this new American make believe world.

The Republicans are going to be happy with this new American make believe system since when senior citizens get sick they will be sent to a Zynga Hospital, and would be taken care by the Zynga doctors and Zynga make believe drugs and the system would use Groupon coupons and monopoly make believe money.

Zynga world is the future of the United States social-economic system - the world of illusion.

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Gelles  04/04/2012 07:49 AM Report

When I re-locate to Carlsbad in a few weeks I hope to get going on my Wiki-policy and Electric Money projects. Ricardo, you may be a nit wit -- but your my nit wit. And I'm yours. The other nits wits here do not usually mention each other in postings.

Gelles  04/04/2012 07:45 AM Report

Yes, Chomsky too.

This Charlie Rose forum has a great search box !

Too bad they will not allow post-send edits. I notice lots of typos in my last few posts.

Gelles  04/04/2012 07:43 AM Report

Yes, Rose interviewed BOTH Hedges and Hitchens. The search box on the upper right size brings them right up. What about Chomsky?

Gelles  04/04/2012 07:37 AM Report

Christopher Hedges brings to mind the late Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens was a favorite of mine -- he came down hard on our faults and the faults of Islamo fascists. He died a while back from cancer -- he was not old.

As I recall, Hitchens was often on Charlie Rose. Maybe I'll check our archive. Has Hedges also been on?

Gelles  04/04/2012 07:26 AM Report

Ricardo~

Thanks for the link to Chris Hedges and his call for reform and empathy.

He was with the NY Times and both he and they remain with debt-based money as a fixed given institution.

I want his ideas of reform to switch to output-based money.

His call for empathy, if it begins to work as he hopes, will also be a welcome one.

If he wrong about Islam and empathy. If the Islam "move" into Europe begins to show peaceful results, then Hedges will have proved to be a valuable prophet.

If the Islamic experience in Europe proves the opposite, then Hedges is just wrong.

I am convinces Hedges is, like Chomsky, a nit wit. I have met our enemy. They are not like Hedges. They will kill him without understanding his idea of empathy.

Now, he is right about many of the changes he wants in our economic system in America and everywhere else. We do need to end poverty on earth.

By the way, nobody in America is silencing Hedges. His book will sell. His voice will be heard.

Let him ply his nit wit trade in ideas in Islamic territory. Will he survive a day? He sees America as the cause of the trouble between Islam and Christianity. As I say, he is a nit wit. He blames Wilson for Hitler, Stalin and Islamo fascism. As I say, he is a nit wit. But, he also spoke much truth. The Hedges Chomsky doctrines are interesting. I wonder if the two agree with each other?

Ricardo, you two are a nit wit. Because you do not fully agree with me.

My start of a WIKI-POLICY system www.ustaxreform.us/em13.htm -- is an attempt to allow Chomsky, Hedges, Ricardo Amaral and John Gelles, to arrive at several consensus agendas in spite of their opposing nit wit conditions.

The following is my post tonight to the Pelosi page on this Charlie Rose forum:

..... "If both candidates for president in November agree that America and its trading partners cannot employ output-based money (with which to pay down debt denominated in a lesser currency,) then the world is doomed to honor war and the persistence of poverty on the richest planet of which we know.

"I, for one, in that case, will leave this planet to live on its only moon. There I will have the money to pay the wages to do the work that produces the means to enjoy everyday life.

"If you would join me, ask now for a ticket -- I'll send it. Together we'll watch the election hoping one or both of these men will see the light in time for us to return to their side. Yes we will have the return ticket too. It's the only kind they sell."

Gelles  04/04/2012 06:34 AM Report

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12270#comment_88593

Gelles  04/04/2012 06:21 AM Report

SIR WALTER SCOTT COMES TO OUR RESCUE

Breathes there the man with soul so dead

Who never to himself hath said,

This is my own, my native land!

Whose heart hath ne’er within him burned,

As home his footsteps he hath turned

From wandering on a foreign strand!

If such there breathe, go, mark him well;

For him no minstrel raptures swell;

High though his titles, proud his name,

Boundless his wealth as wish can claim

Despite those titles, power, and pelf,

The wretch, concentred all in self,

Living, shall forfeit fair renown,

And, doubly dying, shall go down

To the vile dust from whence he sprung,

Unwept, unhonored , and unsung.

Ricardo_Amaral  04/04/2012 02:53 AM Report

Gelles, you will enjoy watching this video as well:

Chris Hedges “The World as It is”

http://youtu.be/zdz3IN5fz9Y

"You can't sustain a democracy in an oligarchic state. The writers on Athenian democracy understood that 2000 years ago," says Chris Hedges, whose new book The World As It Is: Dispatches on the Myth of Human Progress explores the problems of a crumbling empire, inside and out."

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Ricardo_Amaral  04/04/2012 02:45 AM Report

Gelles, watch this video:

Ron Paul's opinion on Iran

http://youtu.be/qIhcgPyYGWw

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Ricardo_Amaral  04/04/2012 02:33 AM Report

Gelles, after what happened to Iraq, and Libya (2 oil rich countries) - today Iran has the right to build its nuclear arsenal more than ever.

Look what NATO did to Libya last year - that country is in total chaos today as a result of outside interference in the internal affairs of that country.

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Ricardo_Amaral  04/04/2012 02:24 AM Report

Gelles, it is too late to stop a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, since Israel is supposed to have at least 300 nukes.

But in my opinion, Iran has earned the right to build their nuclear weapons, since the United States has been interfering in the internal affairs of that country for the last 60 years with catastrophic results for the Iranian people.

*****

Should Iran feel threatened? - March 6, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXT0ikbGhnU

The US has 40 military bases surrounding Iran. What if Iran had as many bases around the US? Would we feel threatened?

*****

Here is what I wrote 6 years ago on that subject:

Iran and American Interference

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63583&perpage=6&highlight=iran%201953&pagenu mber=1

February 6, 2006

SouthAmerica: The United States government believes that “The boogieman is coming to get you again – Iran is the latest boogieman …

The Iranians want to build nuclear weapons – and so what?

Since Iran is a sovereign country they have the right to do anything they want inside their country to protect their population, including building nuclear weapons - In my opinion, the same story applies to North Korea.

Here we are talking about a country's sovereignty. I don't know if the American people understand the concept of "Sovereignty" today, otherwise why the United States make such a big deal about other countries developing nuclear weapons?

This is not a debate about defending North Korea's or Iran's position. This is a debate about how a country that has sovereignty also has the right to build nuclear weapons.

The decision to build nuclear weapons is between the government and the people of that country. If the people of a country decides that they want to build nuclear weapons; then it is not the business of any other country to try to stop that endeavor. Or a country has sovereignty or it does not.

Every country has the right to build nuclear weapons including not only North Korea but also Iran, Brazil, Argentina, etc.

By the way; the United States, and the Russia, both countries have the right to develop and build its new series of smaller nuclear weapons. I don't see any other country trying to stop the United States or Russia from going ahead with their nuclear weapons plans.

Here is why the Iranians don't trust the United States, and they believe that they need nuclear weapons to defend their country against a possible pre-emptive attack by the United States.

Remember, Iran is the second part of the "Axis of Evil." If you watch the Fox News Network, the impression that you get is that the Iranian government is getting ready to attack the US with nuclear weapons.

You know, like a repetition of the Saddam Hussein regime change fiasco. These phantom weapons can be launched and reach the US in 45 minutes, or something like that. (What a bunch of BS.)

You might ask: why not North Korea first?

Because of two reasons:

1) Iran has lots of "OIL" and North Korea doesn't.

2) North Korea has a large army, and the US could not beat them during the first Korean War, and the US most likely can't beat them again.

The North Koreans have a 5 million people army, and the US can't beat even a bunch of insurgents in Iraq estimated at less than 15,000 people.

I want to remind you once again, Iran has lots of "OIL."

Here is another example of how well American intervention on other country’s business worked in the past – it is just a reminder.

Here we go again…………

**********

Part 1 of 2

The American Prospect

"Regime change since 1953"

Article published 11/01/03

Regime Change: The Legacy - Since 1953, U.S. presidents have been toppling other governments. Now, the consequences.

By Stephen Kinzer

A very happy group of men convened at the White House on Sept. 4, 1953, to hear a cloak-and-dagger story that would resonate through all of subsequent American history. Two weeks before, the Central Intelligence Agency had overthrown Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran. It was the first time the CIA had deposed a foreign leader, and on this day the agent who ran the operation, Kermit Roosevelt, was to explain how he did it.

Roosevelt's account of bribes, staged riots and artillery duels was almost too hair-raising to believe. It transfixed everyone in the room, including President Dwight Eisenhower, who later wrote that it "seemed more like a dime novel than historical facts." If there was a single moment when the United States can be said to have entered the modern era of covert action and regime change, this was it.

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Gelles  04/03/2012 08:35 PM Report

Ricardo ~ "You old Devil" means, in colloquial English, not the Prince of Hades, but an ordinary joker (one who plays jokes on people) or trouble maker.

The threat I mentioned is not just of Iranian Bomb -- but of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East (and everywhere) that could lead to terrorism or accident that I know YOU don't want. The time to prevent such arms race is now. The best way is by diplomacy and leadership by the USA and the other great nuclear powers.

Ricardo_Amaral  04/03/2012 02:08 PM Report

Gelles, I don't care about the Iranian bomb. The Iranians are not going to use it anyway.

If you want to get paranoid about nuclear weapons then start thinking about the 100 nukes that Pakistan has on its arsenal. For many years I have been saying that's the problem that the United States and Israel should worry about.

The Iranians are very civilized people, and I can't see them attacking anybody with nukes.

But I can see Pakistan using their nuclear weapons against other countries including Israel.

I mentioned to you that I am agnostic, and the word Devil it doesn't mean anything to me.

The History of the Devil

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/history-devil/

.

Gelles  04/03/2012 08:08 AM Report

Erskine Bowles is a good Democrat who would lead us out of deflation and on to a solid green democratic future -- if he had his way. What is in the road blocking progress as we read and write?

At the moment I'm trying to write, "A DEMAND-DRIVEN RECOVERY versus THE SUPPLY-SIDE LEGACY of DEBT-BASED MONEY".

So far it's just a blank page at www.ustaxreform.us/em11.htm

I'm selling my home in Ventura (I hope and pray). Then it's off to Carlsbad and my eldest son. He will supervise his old father in whatever time remains for us to enjoy this wonderful life.

The proceeds from sale of the home I would like to put to good use. Like promoting the idea (of A DEMAND-DRIVEN RECOVERY versus THE SUPPLY-SIDE LEGACY of DEBT-BASED MONEY.)

I would like to link up with Dr. Peter H. Diamandis, the co-author of "ABUNDANCE" and co-founder with Ray Kurzweil of Singularity University. We would define what I mean about a DEMAND-DRIVEN economy, where output-based money keeps up with production after artificial intelligence rivals our own.

I see the profit-oriented "market" as a very limited convenience. It tries to replace prize juries of well informed specialists with ordinary shoppers in stores who may not even be well heeled.

The problem of "increasing returns" (opposite to the law of diminishing returns), the nature of which may be blamed for things like the QWERTY keyboard and other legacies we hang on to at our peril, -- that problem -- is part of the puzzle I'm facing.

Why do we think SUPPLY-SIDE pursuit of profit is as good as or better than DEMAND-SIDE pursuit of the public interest?

It just isn't you know. Private profit is good. The public interest is the better goal in the long run.

Assuming I'm right, will I have time to make the case for a business system that thinks more of cash than debt, more of WORK than sipping wine and smoking pot? "The science to study the brain, the proper use of the force of habit", these are two opportunities Charlie Rose has recently aired. Do you think if I make nice toward him, he will ever upgrade this software to rival the forums at Amazon?

Gelles  04/03/2012 07:19 AM Report

Ricardo -- you old Devil you. You want Russia and China to embrace the Iranian Bomb. You Devil you. You found a joke and laughed. You old Devil you. You are really a card. You old Devil you. Let's dance on graves of the millions when they die because you wanted a Mid-East arms race. You old Devil you. If I didn't know in your heart you love Copts, Christians, Bahá'ís and strong women, I'd wonder how that old Devil had corrupted your soul.

Ricardo_Amaral  04/03/2012 05:15 AM Report

Let's start a global boycott of all Israeli products “ASAP”

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67053&perpage=6&pagenumber=69

...Israel is responsible for at least US$ 30.00 in the price of oil in global markets – you can call it the Israel premium that is hurting the economies of most countries around the world.

Israel constant paranoia about Iran nuclear weapons is causing major damage to the world economy – this is actual economic damage that is well underway and it is causing massive unemployment and creating major instability in many countries around the world.

All this economic implosion is happening with the compliments of Israel.

Most countries from around the world that are hurting because of the extra US$ 30.00 in Israel premium regarding the price of oil – all these countries should start boycotting Israel in every way possible, and start by boycotting all Israeli products.

If the UN can place sanctions on Iranian oil because of Israel's paranoia regarding Iran's possible development of nuclear weapons, then most countries from around the world can start boycotting all Israeli products, because of the actual economic damage that is happening to their economies as a direct result of the extra US$ 30.00 in Israel premium regarding the price of oil.

Let Israel and the Israeli people pay the price for the damage that Israel is inflicting into the global economy via the price of oil.

Let's spread through out the internet the message about starting immediately a global boycott of all Israeli products.

We should start the Israeli boycott in all countries of South America and go from there....

In a nutshell: Israel is causing US$ 100's of billions in losses related to economic activity in the economies from countries around the world.

This is real economic damage that Israel is inflicting around the world as a result of the extra US$ 30.00 in Israel premium regarding the global price of oil.

.

Gelles  04/02/2012 08:09 AM Report

In WW II we proved "a nation can afford all it can produce." Production, not debt, is the sound base on which money can be created.

So, what IF what you produce does not SELL ?

In that case, re-engineer your product until it's the best on earth. If you cannot do that, copy the products that are better than yours.

What about PATENTS? What about COMPETENCE? If these are our problems -- address them. Reform all patents IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST. Reform all education and training until our engineers are better and more plentiful than theirs. Stop hiding from the truth and running off at the mouth. The only things that work are user friendly systems inspired by genius friendly people.

Gelles  04/02/2012 07:59 AM Report

Simpson and Bowles deliver slogans, not solutions to debt-based systems that have been a failure for thousands of years. The Basel Accords tell us that debt is never worth more than it can deliver. They say mark it down to its power to deliver real wealth. But that is not enough.

Wealth can only be delivered by hard work and systems that can recover from natural disasters and avoid man-made total war.

Simpson loves a good one liner. He is a stand-up comic in politics. He is too old to ask for our consent to anything less than the evidence he points to really proves his point.

Wiser people than he point to the energy we are NOT yet producing, the income deficit among the poor and middle class, and the undone projects to repair our nation that only full employment can even suggest makes any sense -- compared with unemployment as our Achilles heel.

It is time for a change from all our failed laws and practices to what we proved in WW II could deliver the goods and give civilization a chance.

Gelles  04/02/2012 07:44 AM Report

Shalom Freedman and Colleagues in These Pages ~

"If the U.S. is to be the major power", during the time it takes for all major powers to embrace human rights; government of, by and for the people; liberty, equality and fraternity; the four freedoms; and similar ideal goals of modern civilization, -- then it cannot place above these goals subordinate particulars of ambiguous economic theories.

Entitlements is the sticking point. If the U.S. does NOT EVIDENCE that its people have the highest minimum standard of living, via work, business, law and practice, then it has no claim to be the major anything.

Any nation may come to boast it has the power of Russia to destroy all worlds -- when that is the fact. But the human race can dare them to do it, as people everywhere reject its lousy achievements toward becoming the best nation in sight. In fact, Russia is our equal in raw senseless power. But our people are entitled to four freedoms. Are theirs?

Importantly, our entitlement to freedom from want and fear remains an undelivered ideal. We, too, stink -- in the degree to which we delivered these two sacred promises of WW II.

But we delivered more of them than others.

The idea that we are NOT entitled, to more than we have delivered so far, is a lousy idea. Certainly, we have to WORK to deliver on these ENTITLEMENTS. So we must reform our system to make sure we know what we're doing.

Please visit www.ustaxreform.us

Please take notice of the fact that our system of debt-based money does not work. We need output-based money. Your major point needs reconsideration, clarification, and proof that it can deliver security -- not just gambling casinos.

ShalomFreedman  04/02/2012 04:31 AM Report

The major point is clear. The U.S. must make major changes in the way it is now running itself. It must make major cuts in expenditures, entitlement programs and change the tax system. It must move toward reducing the debt even though this will involve painful cuts in Defense, Health Care. Bowles are talking sense to the American people, and their path or something similar to it must be adopted if the U.S. is be the major power of the global future.

tbo88  04/01/2012 09:57 PM Report

Uh, Mariel, we should all take this personally. What they said at the end was exact. They weren't making it personal just for themselves, but a responsibility for us all no matter what your financial status. Everyone jumps to conclusions, I hate conclusions. Think about the end result is what they are trying to tell everyone. Why does everyone have a comment that comes close to something positive and then puts a big BUT at the end. Stand up and come together and not expect everyone in Washington to save your ass. We should save each others besides our own.

MarieIsenburg  04/01/2012 08:30 PM Report

Mssrs Simpson and Bowles make strong points on the economics. Their analysis and frankness are refreshing and their ideas practical. However, if they hope to accomplish anything, they must withhold social commentary. There, they show they know as little about the struggle to hold on in America as the rest of us know about the consequences of the deficit.

These gentlemen should focus on the dollars. Someone else will have to convince the rest of us that the our country can make these changes while maintaining general stability and civility. Making it personal only creates obstacles.

PorterCT1989  03/31/2012 10:23 PM Report

I would like to add that I agree wholeheartedly with strikebuzzard's comment:

"I know there is a move afoot, proposed by DoD, to increase the premiums, which I do not object to, as it is still a hell of a deal, as is the pension plan"

... it is a great deal and I value that benefit very highly. But also as an American thankful for the service and sacrifices of all our military veterans it is one promise we as Americans made to its veterans that should be kept. Increased premiums will help ease deficit spending but it will do nothing to resolve

My comments were meant to point out that Sen Simpson's characterization of the 440.00 as a "premium" is incorrect. It is an administrative fee for the added convenience of a health care manager.

I believe that in general, news reports and to some extent Allen Simpson's remarks incorrectly paints TriCare as some cadillac healthcare plan. It is a government "self-insured" plan that runs from either 1) date of retirement from active duty; or, 2) in the case of retired reserve members from their 60th birthday. At 65 Medicare becomes the primary healthcare coverage. TriCare has most if not more of the same coverage limitations and deductibles as most other health care plans.

TriCare has become quite expensive to the government in recent years as have all healthcare care plans.

I also did not want the average listener to be left with the idea there are 2+ million military members out there with as little as one year of service drawing free health care.

strikebuzzard  03/31/2012 02:48 PM Report

As a retired military member, I can tell you I pay $38.34 a month for Tri-care Prime for my wife and myself ($460.08 a year for healthcare). There is also available the straight Tri-care option, which costs nothing, but there are more co-pays and fewer restrictions on who you see, and a $3000 a year max out of pocket payment. I know there is a move afoot, proposed by DoD, to increase the premiums, which I do not object to, as it is still a hell of a deal, as is the pension plan. From my limited knowledge as a receiver of the perks mentioned, I do not have a problem with any of Allen Simpson's remarks...

PorterCT1989  03/31/2012 01:41 PM Report

Allen Simpson misrepresented militray tricare benefit. In particular, he mentions that retired military pay only $440 annually for healthcare. In fact retired military receive free healthcare. Traditionally, many years ago, this was from military facilities and that was on a lower priority to active duty and dependents. That evolved to the CHAMPUS program and now TriCare. There are significant deductibles, limited space available and enrolled practioners.

TriCare comes several flavors on the administrative end. In areas where their is a designated care facility or PCF a retired member may opt for TriCare Prime. the $440 goes to a contracted healthcare manager to manage appointments referrals etc. None of the 440.00 goes to pay for healthcare services.

A retired member transitions from TriCare to Medicare at 65. TriCare becomes secondary.

The General Sen Simpson speaks of with one year of service, is undoubtedly a reserve member. I am retire military with 27 years of service, 12 years of that on active duty. Retired reserve members like the general are eligible for TriCare at age 60 and transition to medicare at age 65. a total of five years of healthcare.

Many if not most of these retired reserve members myself included opt to procure civilian healthcare thru their civilian jobs, much more expensive yet better and certainly more convenient.

P.S. Many if not most of these retired reservists Sen Simpson implies to be such a burden have most likely served multiple tours in combat areas.

I think they have earned the healthcare such as it is.

john_q_public  03/31/2012 09:04 AM Report

Alan Simpson, the great mathematician explains the significance of a trillion: If you spent a dollar a day ...

He's an arrogant idiot. That doesn't tell you the significance of a trillion. What business does he have trying to explain this?

I don't like either of these morons.

Good luck United States.

Gelles  03/31/2012 07:12 AM Report

Connecting ABUNDANCE to MONEY -- as in a monetary system of production:

..... I have been trying in recent days to express a belief that Keynesian Thought (or Functional Finance) would serve to connect the promise of ABUNDANCE via high technology to AGGREGATE DEMAND via fiat money spent or saved within new economic systems designed to avoid deflation and inflation within controllable limits.

..... You can call this a planned economy or a command economy -- similar to socialism of the recent past. But it is more than that.

Socialism failed on account of bureaucracy and police statism. A functional abundance-creating political economy would be guided by data and common sense -- by it goals and objectives -- more than by biblical dogma. It would be based on results -- not on fixed principles that can come to cause more trouble than they're worth.

I've got to quit here. Let me end with the thought that Amazon Forums have better software than Charlie Rose's. We need a new Wikipedia devoted to collaborative creative writing that can go viral with sound inventive cures for what ails us.

Gelles  03/31/2012 06:19 AM Report

Unlike Simpson, Bowles, Baker, Rose and Gelles, George Goehl would reform our economy and our law by challenging corporations (perhaps like Michael Moore) -- and not mostly by trying to reform Congress and politics at a more general level.

He spent ten minutes with Bill Moyers tonight on PBS explaining how to bring change by confronting particular corporate CEO's and stockholders at meetings and in the streets.

His present plan of action is called "99% Spring". Google it.

If his plan succeeded, we would have leaders who had not reformed law and economics to sustain production and cultural change, but would have a revolution that tried to bring fairness to our systems without explaining how they would work -- and how to prevent new bosses from becoming as bad as the old ones.

Goehl is executive director of National People’s Action, a network of metropolitan and statewide membership organizations dedicated to advancing economic and racial justice.

If he saw how China works I believe he would see that new bosses are not enough. New systems are required that promote human rights, the Golden Rule, and production to meet the supply and demand quotas of a modern economic democracy.

There is a common denominator between Simpson-Bowles and Anti-corporatism Leaderless Forces, both as mesmerized by their own voices. They talk nonsense and that's the end of it.

You can say the same about ME and YOU. But you would be wrong. Somebody soon will have a clue about what to do. I think Peter Demandis in his book "ABUNDANCE" is the prophet worth joining.

Meanwhile, Charlie Rose and Bill Moyers compete for our attention to problems they prove have no solutions.

Don't you believe them. They have no solutions. Keynesian thought offers the best we know of so far. It won WW II. It will win again when Singularity University joins Functional Finance to bring technology and logistics to bear on current economic stalemates.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  03/31/2012 04:10 AM Report

Here is what will happen with a retirement age of 68 in the year 2050:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=19THRdXxmaI

Gelles  03/30/2012 10:55 PM Report

It is tragic that the American people (and the rest of the modern and emerging capitalist and semi-capitalist economies) think of the global shortage of income and money in the hands of the bottom half of that world as something FIXED and ordained by magic or market or God or whoever or whatever.

THAT SHORTAGE, represented by goods and services not produced and sold to the bottom half (the abused members of our family and friends circles -- even ourselves), would have been PRODUCED if we demanded and created FULL EMPLOYMENT of labor and capital and our institutions responsible for law, education, training, and development of rational business and government habits.

Such full employment, would create automated production supply chains that multiplied economic output many times over.

And we would have matched that output with fiat money to buy it and avoid all deflation's.

So what about inflation's ?

Can counter-productive inflation (that might make money too weak to motivate the hard work necessary for invention and operation of a high tech monetary system of production) -- can such inflation be AVOIDED simultaneously with deflation's defeat by full employment ?

Those of us who assume we are too stupid to prevent both deflation and excessive inflation seem to hold all the cards. They like the system that favors the top only, and brings grief to half or more of us, and that is truly a tragedy.

Will nobody here see what I'm saying? Is everyone convinced the global economy is on the way down the toilet?

rivers  03/30/2012 10:06 PM Report

It was quite disturbing to hear former Senator Simpson pride himself in having "pissed off" everyone. Moreover, it was difficult to stomach his mocking of retired AARP members during the interview.

I guess that if all Americans had the same medical benefits that he has that the public provides for him as a former senator then the citizens of this great country would not be plagued with the constant fear of having to lose everything, including their lives, if they were suddenly besieged with catastrophic health problems.

I thought that those who were elected to public office were chosen to serve the public, not to ridicule and exploit them. Therefore former Senator Simpson owes an apology to his constituents and to the American public, especially to retired members of AARP, who he has "pissed off" while holding office.

JoeFriday  03/30/2012 08:51 PM Report

Charlie's statement at the top intro of the show,

"An increasing number of people believe that the debt, the U.S. debt, is the biggest problem facing this country"

could not be more WRONG.

Not only has concern about the federal debt dropped much further down the list of priorities of Americans since the enlightenment of the "We Are The 99%", but the American people are not buying the calls by the likes of Simpson & Bowles, for "Shared Sacrifice".

In a National Journal poll, about 70% hold the view that our federal deficits & debt are as a result of the undertaxation of the wealthy and excessive defense spending:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/daily/poll-americans-split-on-concern-for-very-poor-20120213

The independent non-partisan Congressional Budget Office agrees, reporting that the vast overwhelming majority of our current federal deficits and debt, as well as our medium-term projected future federal deficits and debt, are as a direct result of the massive decline in federal income tax revenue caused by the numerous rounds of massive tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefited the Rich & Corporate enacted during the previous administration.

Those that caused or benefited from this massive expansion of federal deficits and debt should be required to pay it off. There was no shared benefit, why should there now be shared sacrifice ?

JF

Gelles  03/30/2012 08:07 PM Report

Useful links to Charlie Rose Show current interviews

http://ustaxreform.us/.crs.htm

Gelles  03/30/2012 07:58 PM Report

Tabs and REMant and Simpson, Bowles and Rose ~

If the five of you were chartered to solve the problems of (a)_Global economic progress (toward the end of poverty and beginning of great ABUNDANCE), and (b)_Global peace and environmental security, -- would you be able to agree on anything?

You all deny Keynesian ideas as you simultaneously accept his main idea that we need an effective monetary system of PRODUCTION -- not the "head-in-the-sand" doctrine of making laissez-faire your only religion.

The rules and practices of WW II (that created a "free enterprise" + "cost-plus contract" driven command economy COMPROMISE), must be copied today to create the highly educated, sun-powered hydrogen stored energy model, that beckons action where it will count.

There is a theory that "Complexity know no limit". This may be true. But it must be tamed as best we can. Brevity, avoidance of ambiguity, some redundancy, -- these three are a useful trinity.

The Golden Rule, the CENTER must HOLD, take aim at corruption and take advantage of good luck -- these three are another useful trinity.

Liberty, Equality, Fraternity -- same rule of three.

Life, Liberty and Happiness (that attaches to virtue) -- same rule of 3.

Left, Center, Right -- find the middle and avoid the extremes.

Simpson, Bowles and Charlie Rose -- three blind mice, who for one hour contradicted themselves 60 times. They mean well. But they did not explain how to train and employ everyone in need of MORE -- to put them to work on producing MORE, including the money tot buy it!

tabs  03/30/2012 06:54 PM Report

Now comes Part Three:

The following was sent to CNBC DURING Warren Buffets last appearence on the network. One is of the opinion that he was shown this e-mail by the CNBC staff during the show.

Warren The Perennial Optimist

Monday, February 27, 2012

The question is in 1914 did Czar Nicholas II ever think that by 1918 that he, his whole family and Czarist Russia would all be dead and gone? That a whole new and radically different system such as Communism would take its place? Does Warren Buffet ever think that kind of radical night and day change could possibly ever happen to the US and world? Warren seems oblivious to the possibility and to the dangers we now face, Yet history shows again and again that kind of game changing event can happen., And we are not talking about a rise of Communism here either, for God only knows how the dice will land.

What one really has to consider is that events in the world are moving to ever greater instability brought on by the deficit and Sovereign debt issues of Europe and the USA. These issues are a ticking time bomb whose fuse is lit and is getting shorter by the day as the debt continue to mount and the human dimension as reflected through politics refuses to grapple with the problem in a realistic fashion. Ironically the American economy in particular is doing well under the circumstances, but can be brought low by having its foundations based upon monetary and fiscal policies of the US government. This situation is something far different in its circumstances than anything the US has faced before. We are in that undiscovered territory where one has to be aware that the situation is such that gaming changing events can happen. One could liken it to Tornado or Hurricane weather.

That is the problem one finds with Warren Buffets analysis. He ignores the risk to the system.

TABS

tabs  03/30/2012 06:01 PM Report

Now comes Part 2:

On a cold April night nearly 100 years ago Thomas Andrews scribbled some math equations on a piece of paper. When he had finished he looked up and said to Bruce Ismay of the White Star Line that, "The Titanic is going to sink." No other words or explanations were necessary those words spoke for themselves.

Mr Bowles and Simpson seemed to be exhibiting gallows humor at times during the course of the discussion. This means that they have reached the point where they have done everything that they can do and it will not alter the course and or inevitability of the Arc of History. This was readily apparent when one of them said that it is not your grandchildren ,nor your children that will suffer but us.

Their time frame for a Sovereign Debt Crisis like ones own is not that far off into the future. Perhaps as soon as the end of 2012. One has long said that a crisis happens long before the last USD is begged, borrowed, printed, taxed and spent.

tabs  03/30/2012 05:38 PM Report

Now Comes part One:

The following was sent to Mr Rose via E-mail early this morning and was originally posted to the old Charlie Rose comment board on or about the date indicated. The quote at the end is by Abraham Lincoln.

Thu, 09/04/2008 - 16:48

Time To Take Stock Of What Your Doing

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because you can say it or do it, it doesn't mean that you should. Freedom implies a level of responsibility for ones actions. A responsibility to be a good neighbor, not only to know your own limitations but to know your neighbors sensibilities. Americans are fast losing that sensibility. Democracy to function requires that both sides of a political argument trusts the other, that their hearts are for the best interest of the nation and not just partisan interests. Since 2000 the stitching of this Republic is being torn at by both sides and, is becoming more viperous with each passing election cycle. At some point the parties had better realize that they are creating a whirlwind. For, "If we do not do right God will let us go our own way to our ruin."

TABS

EPatrickMosman  03/30/2012 04:27 PM Report

The last sentence of my post should read;

"It should be obvious to any thinking person that throwing Federal money at education has been a failure and continuing to throw money meets Einstein's definition of insanity "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

EPatrickMosman  03/30/2012 04:20 PM Report

Mr.Rose,

First my wife and I wish to thank you for giving Messrs. Simpson and Bowles a national public forum to discuss the dire straits of the America's fiscal and financial condition and the hard, even drastic, actions which are needed to rescue the Ship of State and set it on a course of fiscal responsibility now as the future is too late.

Unfortunately their report failed to unite the disparate parties, particularly President Obama, for whom the report was prepared, who is concentrating on dividing the country by race, class, haves/havenots, gender, religion/no religion and sexual orientation to concentrate on the future of the United States of America.Once again president Obama showed his "leading from behind" leadership method.

The point was made that should the USA be called upon to defend Taiwan against China, America would be funding both sides of the war. As it is now the interest paid to China on our debt is funding the Chinese military buildup as well as its space program.

The poor state of America's K-12 education system was also mentioned vs that of Singapore's and major differences were mentioned, two of which were discipline and teacher education.What were not mentioned was the entry of the Federal government into the education process, the courts ruling that students had 'rights', the unionization of teachers and probably one of the most critical, the inability of poorly educated parents to assist or even take an interest in their children' education.It should be obvious to any thinking person that throwing Federal money at education has a failure and continuing to throw money meets Einstein's definition of insanity "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

gotnotruck  03/30/2012 03:58 PM Report

Two questions: Charlie, Why didn't you ask why not single payer, which the rest of the "civilized world" uses well at much lower cost. The Chinese had it originally, then switched to our system. Now back. The insurance industry is a sacred cow. Challenge that. Another question: what is American self perceived "superiority" based on, and what do we need to cut in "Defense"? (What we have is an Offense Dept.) More than 800 bases around the world the DOD acknowledges. How would Americans feel if there were foreign bases on our ground? That question gets through easily to every American I've talked to. Including in Ashe Co, NC. Don't those bases earn us enemies, not friends? Addicts to our defense spending? Might it not be good for Europe's economies, and ours, if we pulled out our bases. They could build their own. The Germans have plenty of money. And would save us enormous amounts. Same with Korea and Japan. Not so sure about the Philippines. The American media rarely deals with anti Americanism, speaking of inability to comprehend reality. I was shocked to learn that most national legislators don't have passports. I'd assumed they knew it was poppycock to say Europe is socialist and fascist. As for education, I went to school in Chapel Hill. My father taught at UNC. We were taught in the late fifties early sixties by really smart women putting their hubbies through med school. Now the same are doctors. The hubbies usually left after the wife put em through. I still think you should have a regular NC farmer on. And have a few in mind. One who can't read but can quote chapter and verse. He doesn't believe in evolution, yet is for Medicare for everyone and against these stupid wars. Doesn't know if his grandaddy voted for FDR, sounded fascinated when I asked him, but like most mountain folk votes Republican. In Eastern NC I see whites and blacks eating lunch together at filling stations with a few tables and menus in Spanish. Just as in MLK's vision, yet the white votes R and the black D. Yankees don't get that. Nor do they get that whites like me and a lot of my family were in the civil rights movement, as were white friends from every state in the South. And they don't want to hear about it. Be more adventurous!

Richard_DeBiase  03/30/2012 03:04 PM Report

Sorry about the syntax error in the link in my comment below at 03/30/2012 01:16 PM. The extra slash ( /) at the end will send it to a "page unfound" error. Try it this way, and it should work:

-----------------------------

And nearly 50% of Americans have used marijuana by the time they graduate high school:

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2012/mar/07/gary-johnson/marijuana-use-claim-close-mark

REMant  03/30/2012 01:29 PM Report

I think Medicare and Medicaid will have to be folded into a single-payer system for the entire population. But the problem with discussions of this subject is that they always look to cutting the price of healthcare rather than prices generally, and righting the imbalance in wealth and income. This is a monetary, not a fiscal, problem, although, of course the reason for the Fed's monetary policy is obviously fiscal.

Would that 50% of the deficit were being funded by foreign countries. Actually, 61% of last year's Treasuries were bought by the Fed.

And the American Revolution was funded in great part by depreciation of the currency, just as our wars are now, and lotteries, as well as, incidentally, by the British, themselves, who bought their supplies here.

Harrington, several centuries ago, following Machiavelli, realized that politics follows money, not money, politics, (see http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=916&layout=html) but it had long been a reality. The principle has informed British policy from his time to this, and Bernanke, Summers and co are hot to imitate them. It's not the Supreme Court's or the Koch brother's fault alone. But to adapt Lincoln, or more accurately, Jesus, a nation divided between capitalism and politics cannot stand. One will corrupt the other. (And it could be said that when the North triumphed in that conflict, corruption won.)

Milton Friedman long ago demonstrated why a negative income tax would be a more efficient means of welfare administration than all the tax expenditures and entitlements dreamed up.

I would suggest to ex-Sen Simpson that ex-Gov Romney will not live up to his expectations.