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ChongSunWah 04/04/2012 03:21 PM Report
Your thought is not too far fetched about Zionists taking over the America government when the puppet refuses to be one they got to do something, right? Like get rid of him but I don't know how. They did it to JFK already when he poked into Israel nuclear development.(I also suspect Rabin is not an individual job.) You watch this tape they want Netanyahu to be the President Of America. Israeli Extremists in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS3JkLMRdSI&feature=related
Thanks to the Jews high technology the internet we are getting so many information and we can judge for ourselves and finally see the true color of the Zionists instead of just hearing about these powerful families that control the world. I already heard it in in 60's.
The Zionists hold top position in the administration and they listen to Israel and report back to Israel. And Let say President Obama still refuse to bomb Iran what do you think the Zionists will do? I think they will still go ahead because at this final stage of their masterplan it is very important that their 'status quo' will remain this mean the Zionist cannot allow China trump over America to take the financial lead. If they do China can set new rules and regulations and this is not acceptable for the Zionists. Zionists cannot compete they want total control so they got to cheat and manipulate. In the late 50's every countries that want to succeed economically got to know-tow to America policies which was in fact the Zionists footprints, do you do get it? If we do not put all our heads together this war can lead to 3rd World War and Russia will also come into the picture to support China and at the end the Asian countries must or force to take side. This is a dangerous game the Netanyahu government is playing but to them it is nromal because they had been doing it all their life please watch all the video that I have posted in my blog. Whe we talk of the end of the war maybe this is the one because nuclear weapons will be used and this mean the end of humanity.
The Zionists feel they are losing the support from America and they need a back up plan to achieve their end goal and I see their end goal on the religious front is during the bombing of Iran it will be very chaotic then without our notice they will bomb the Al aqsa Mosque like during Sept 11 Building No 7 just came down with no reason. This is my other greatest fear because it seems their duty is to bring back their Messiah and he will appear at the Temple Mount which is the present site of Al aqsa Mosque
ChongSunWah 04/04/2012 02:24 PM Report
Dear World Watcher,
I have not been watching Charlie Rose for quite a while not because I was not interested but by chance I got into youtube and can you believe all the information over there in mind boggling. I have posted a lot of it systematically so when people read it they will understand how the Zionists stole the land of the Palestinians. I hope you can help to spread my blog because I have organized it well. I still got letters from Senators.
I have just posted my letter to all the Senators to help save our one world. The last one was entitle We have only One World
Dear Senator ,
We need to save America from Zionists control of America and our One World.
If we fail to stop Netanyahu in what seems to be his strong desire to pre-emptively bomb Iran within these next six months, the consequences will be catastrophic. This was what I have written and believe; “Zionism has Destroyed PALESTINE and now it is on the march to destroy our One World if we fail to stop them from bombing Iran! I hope the world can count on all of you senators to give us the support we need to halt Israeli aggression.
Let’s bring America back where it belongs; “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave”, because together we can stop the Zionists’ aggression and Unity is Strength.
http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/stop-zionists-globalism/
This is my reply to Senator Rand Paul.
Thank you very much for the reply. I would like you to know I have received a reply from President Obama and I did reply to him. http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/barack-obama-2012/the-white-house-reply/ http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/barack-obama-2012/to-president-obama/
You said, “Starting in 2002, the Iranian government announced their intent to construct two underground heavy-water nuclear facilities. This action worried many because heavy-water nuclear facilities can be used to enrich weapons grade uranium for the production of nuclear weapons.” Have you see this full documentary - The BBC Film That Exposed Israel’s Secret Illegal Nuclear Weapons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMOtvSGJVvc&feature=related
Iran signed the NPT (Nuclear nonProliferation Treaty), Iran joined the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), allows IAEA inspectors to their facilities, Iran did not Invade Anyone, Iran doesn’t have any nukes.
While
Israel refused to sign the NPT, Israel refused to join the IAEA, refused to allow IAEA inspectors to their Secret Illegal Nuclear Facilities, Israel invaded all of their neighbors, openly commits genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians & Israel has hundreds of Nukes.
We MUST do our very best to stop Netanyahu government to bomb Iran because there is too much to risk in the Middle East if he does so. The stability of the entire region would be subject to further threat, and I don't think the US nor Israel nor any of the other Middle Eastern country would want that. Imagine the phenomenal spike we would see in oil prices if that were to happen!
Please Visit INFOWARS.COM for the truth about what’s really going on….Do it for the United States, Do it for the world. http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/9-11-truth-israel-did-it/
I have just written my 3rd reply to Senator Rubio. I hope you can find the time to read it. http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/petition-palestine/senator-marco-rubio/
Love, light, peace, harmony and unity,
Sunflower Chong
amwsf 03/30/2012 08:36 AM Report
Charlie,
You desperately need some diversity at your table.
Jeffrey Goldberg was a MAJOR cheerleader for the Iraq war. And he seems to have slipped into the same posture for a war against Iran. Why should you, or we, trust ANYONE who was so catastrophically wrong about Iraq to give a clear-eyed analysis of the reasons for and consequences of a war on Iran.
You should consider bringing on Glenn Greenwald of Salon.com on a regular basis to discuss national security issues: he's incredibly well informed and extremely articulate, and one of the most-read and one of the most-respected bloggers on the internet. (He also is regularly published in The Guardian and in the New York Times "Room for Debate" blog, and makes regular appearances on MSNBC and has appeared on ABC's "This Week.") In addition, he would be an excellent guest to discuss the Iran "threat" and a counterweight to the current warmongering, subtle and otherwise, of most of your guests and of the "typewriter brigade," most of whom have actively avoided serving in the military any of the wars they so ardently supported and support.
You should also "friend" Andrew Basevich" and bring him on your show on a regulr basis to discuss national security and defense issus. He appeared on Bill Moyer's show, "Moyers & Company" on March 23rd [Moving Beyond War: http://billmoyers.com/episode/moving-beyond-war/ ] and made far more sense than Jeffrey Goldberg as well as most, if not all, the other "national security experts" that appear on your show on a regular basis.
Charlie, your viewers deserve MUCH more than the tired rehashes of your "friends." Get some new "friends," some "fresh blood" and alternative viewpoints. And frankly, yes, truth DOES have a "liberal bias."
worldwatcher 03/28/2012 08:26 PM Report
To ChongSunWah:
I to think that if Netanyahu militarily attacks Iran, he should be put in the Hague -- where Sharon and other previous Prime Ministers and military officers should have been put. But, Zionists and Israel -- in their Jewish white-supremacist apartheid colonial perpetration -- have already committed more than enough crimes -- still ongoing -- against humanity to be put in the Hague -- crimes in particular against the native Palestinian people and the Lebanese people, as well as that Israel has started every one of its 5 or 6 (always, of course, using some pretext) wars, except one (in 1973 when Egypt tried to get back land stolen by Israel in 1967). Those Euro-Western countries have *protected* that *IDEOLOGICALLY* RACIST, *MASSIVELY HYPOCRITICAL* STATE, ISRAEL, for the past 60-something years! In fact, no less than GANDHI CALLED ZIONISM "A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY" (Ref. online, "The Jews of Palestine, 1938", by Mohandes K. Gandhi).
Serb officials were put in the Hague, among other reasons, for allegedly "trying to alter the demographic balance of a land through artificial means: i.e., allegedly through ethnic cleansing. (I say "allegedly" because the whole Yugoslavian break-up, after Tito, was one *ENGINEERED* by the Western powers (first by *Germany* of all countries, and then by other countries, like Britain and the U.S., using NATO as a cover, followed suit.) So, since an Israeli Jewish dissident professor from Zionism and who *quit* Israel and moved to London has, among other Israeli and non-Israeli Jews have written about and documented this (like Ilan Pappe in his book, _The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine_ -- see Amazon; or even *proud arch-Zionist racist* Benny Morris, who's interviews and writings you can read about online), why haven't *Israel* and *Israeli* leaders been put in the Hague a long time ago? Well, because they are *white Europeans* who are oppressing *non-European* people (who aren't even regarded as people by the European West). So, even the once brutally oppressed (European Jews) -- who actually treated most Jewish holocaust victims like sh*t, as such victims and books have spoken out about this -- could become the latest brutal oppressors (against, ironically Semitic) Palestinians and other Arabs (a whole lot more Semitic than European Jews)!
Finally, it was *Israel* who was the *1st* to introduce nuclear weapons into the Middle East. If the U.S. or the Western imperialist powers didn't want some other country in the Middle East to eventually develop a deterent nuclear weapons capability, then the U.S. and other Euro-Western powers should have stopped *Israel* in the first place.
Actually I HOPE THAT IRAN *DOES* DEVELOP NUCLEAR WEAPONS -- OR AT LEAST A NUCLEAR-READY CAPACITY -- in order to end Israel's plan ("THE CLEAN BREAK PAPER") for full spectrum dominance of the entire Middle East and African region -- and to thus *stabilize* the Middle East against Israel, against constant U.S./Israeli military threats against Iran -- of which an actual attack would start an international war ('WWIII' IN THE MDDLE EAST) that would suck in half the countries of the European West and devastate our and other economies (for Western countries already in "The Great Recession" trouble) for all but the rich.
SEE "THE CLEAN BREAK PAPER", 1997
--PLANS WRITTEN BY AMERICAN JEWISH NEOCONS AND ISRAELI GOVT OFFICIALS TO MANIPULATE THE U.S. INTO HELPING ISRAEL DOMINATE THE MIDDLE EAST AND THEN "BREAKING" WITH THE U.S.: BASICALLY TELLING THE U.S. GOVT TO 'GO TO HELL!: WE ISRAELIS DON'T NEED YOU, THE U.S., ANYMORE!!'
NOW *THAT'S* ***CHHHUTZZZPPAH***...!!!
ChongSunWah 03/09/2012 05:50 AM Report
So Sorry got a problem in my computer. I kept clicking because it just stay put.
Dear moderator can you delete the extra. Thank you so much.
ChongSunWah 03/09/2012 12:30 AM Report
Dear Worldwatcher,
I have posted my 2nd letter to Netanyahu at http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/barking-dogs-dont-bite/
I remember for the Iraq war many people wanted to impeached George Bush. I wanted to put these lines BUT WAS ADVISED NOT TO.
"IF YOU DARE TO BOMB IRAN WITHOUT THE GREEN LIGHT FROM UNITED NATION THE WHOLE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT ISRAEL AND THE FIRST THING WE WILL DO IS PUT YOU IN THE HAGUE JUST LIKE MILOSEVIC!"
If I have written something that is not correct please let me know.
How to get UN to come out with a NEW RULE if any leaders preemptive strike because they got fear they must go to jail! What do you think?
ChongSunWah 03/09/2012 12:30 AM Report
Dear Worldwatcher,
I have posted my 2nd letter to Netanyahu at http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/barking-dogs-dont-bite/
I remember for the Iraq war many people wanted to impeached George Bush. I wanted to put these lines BUT WAS ADVISED NOT TO.
"IF YOU DARE TO BOMB IRAN WITHOUT THE GREEN LIGHT FROM UNITED NATION THE WHOLE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT ISRAEL AND THE FIRST THING WE WILL DO IS PUT YOU IN THE HAGUE JUST LIKE MILOSEVIC!"
If I have written something that is not correct please let me know.
How to get UN to come out with a NEW RULE if any leaders preemptive strike because they got fear they must go to jail! What do you think?
ChongSunWah 03/09/2012 12:30 AM Report
Dear Worldwatcher,
I have posted my 2nd letter to Netanyahu at http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/barking-dogs-dont-bite/
I remember for the Iraq war many people wanted to impeached George Bush. I wanted to put these lines BUT WAS ADVISED NOT TO.
"IF YOU DARE TO BOMB IRAN WITHOUT THE GREEN LIGHT FROM UNITED NATION THE WHOLE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT ISRAEL AND THE FIRST THING WE WILL DO IS PUT YOU IN THE HAGUE JUST LIKE MILOSEVIC!"
If I have written something that is not correct please let me know.
How to get UN to come out with a NEW RULE if any leaders preemptive strike because they got fear they must go to jail! What do you think?
ChongSunWah 03/09/2012 12:30 AM Report
Dear Worldwatcher,
I have posted my 2nd letter to Netanyahu at http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/barking-dogs-dont-bite/
I remember for the Iraq war many people wanted to impeached George Bush. I wanted to put these lines BUT WAS ADVISED NOT TO.
"IF YOU DARE TO BOMB IRAN WITHOUT THE GREEN LIGHT FROM UNITED NATION THE WHOLE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT ISRAEL AND THE FIRST THING WE WILL DO IS PUT YOU IN THE HAGUE JUST LIKE MILOSEVIC!"
If I have written something that is not correct please let me know.
How to get UN to come out with a NEW RULE if any leaders preemptive strike because they got fear they must go to jail! What do you think?
ChongSunWah 03/09/2012 12:30 AM Report
Dear Worldwatcher,
I have posted my 2nd letter to Netanyahu at http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/bibi-netanyahu/barking-dogs-dont-bite/
I remember for the Iraq war many people wanted to impeached George Bush. I wanted to put these lines BUT WAS ADVISED NOT TO.
"IF YOU DARE TO BOMB IRAN WITHOUT THE GREEN LIGHT FROM UNITED NATION THE WHOLE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT ISRAEL AND THE FIRST THING WE WILL DO IS PUT YOU IN THE HAGUE JUST LIKE MILOSEVIC!"
If I have written something that is not correct please let me know.
How to get UN to come out with a NEW RULE if any leaders preemptive strike because they got fear they must go to jail! What do you think?
worldwatcher 03/08/2012 07:55 PM Report
Gelles 03/08/2012 06:55 AM: "The idea of the sovereign state with a "legal right" to exist alone, and to "defend its geographical borders" with an army, navy and air force, is almost as old as "language" and equally as old as "law.""
ISRAEL DOESN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE EVEN THE WESTERN IMPERIALISTS' RECOGNIZED BORDERS OF ISRAEL ITSELF.
AND ISRAEL *CONSTANTLY VIOLATES* INTERNATIONAL LAW
--THE SETTLEMENTS AND ISRAEL'S CONTINUOUS STEALING OF PALESTINIAN LAND BEING THE MOST BLATANT, AMONG NUMEROUS OTHER, EXAMPLES.
BUT THE IDEA OF A WHITE-SUPREMACIST, RELIGIO-ETHNIC, SEMI-THEOCRATIC COLONIAL STATE
--THIS TIME A *JEWISH* WHITE-SUPREMACIST, INSTEAD OF *CHRISTIAN* WHITE-SUPREMACIST COLONIAL APARTHEID STATE
-- IN THE NON-EUROPEAN WORLD
-- ANALAGOUS TO THE FORMER OFFICIALY AND IDEOLOGICALLY WHITE-SUPREMACIST APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICAN STATE
--HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY, MORALLY __**REPUDIATED**__
--**EXCEPT** WHEN IT COMES TO ISRAEL:
THE EURO-WESTERN NATIONS' OF THE WORLD OTHERWISE *BLATANT* _MORAL DOUBLE STANDARD_
--WHICH THE PEOPLE OF THE MIDDLE EAST SO DISGUSTINGLY DESPISE.
------------------------------------------------------------
THE FOLLOWING IS THE BEST DESCRIPTION I'VE EVER HEARD OF
THIS BIG 'GOOD COP-BAD COP' 'PSY-OPS' GAME AGAINST IRAN --
OR, RATHER, AGAINST, AND WITH, THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT!!
-- 'YOU SCRATCH *OUR* BACK [ISRAEL'S] AND WE'LL SCRATCH *YOURS* [THE U.S. PRESIDENT'S]!:
Ricardo_Amaral 03/08/2012 06:31 AM:
"You should not worry about Israel attacking Iran – it is just a strategy to make sure that when the United States government starts cutting their budget, they keep the gravy train coming to Israel right on schedule – this is an opportunity to sweet the gravy train even further for the next few years.
...
Note: In the old days, this type of activity it was called a blackmail, but in today's world it is negotiation."
YES, AND IT'S NOT THE 1ST TIME THAT ISRAEL HAS 'BLACKMAILED' AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT
-- AND THUS, IN EFFECT, 'BLACKMAILED' THE UNITED STATES.
IN FACT, WHENEVER, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TRIES TO PRESSURE ISRAEL *NOT* TO START OR CONTINUE A WAR -- OR SETTLEMENTS EXPANSIONS --
ISRAEL THEN SENDS UNCLE SAM ___A *BBBIGGG* *FFFATTT* *BILL*___
FOR **NOT** DOING SOMETHING!
NOW *THAT'S* ___*** CHHHHUTZZZPAH!!!***___
THAT'S LIKE MAKING A PROSTITUTE PAY ***YOU*** TO HAVE HER BEND OVER.
EMSyed 03/08/2012 04:12 PM Report
I like these guys. Martin Indyk is my favorite. Listen to their interviews on Charlie Rose archives. They make total sense, even today. These guys have kept us safe and prosper. I would vote them into office today. They deserve highest civilian awards for their service to our nation.
Gelles 03/08/2012 07:15 AM Report
Should Israel attempt by force to prevent Iran from deploying nuclear arms aimed at the destruction of the Israeli citizenry -- with the open and tacit support of other sovereign states, or not? Should Israel refuse such attempt because its own existence will be far more secure if Iran is left to its own devices as are other nations, such as Pakistan?
Those questions are not yet answered by people with the power to try to force Iran to comply with its present treaty obligations to non-proliferation treaty signatories and other nations facing an existential threat from Iran?
Any answer to these profound questions should include the thought that collateral death and damage to innocent Iranians should be -- zero or as near to that as possible.
Gelles 03/08/2012 06:55 AM Report
The idea of the sovereign state with a "legal right" to exist alone, and to "defend its geographical borders" with an army, navy and air force, is almost as old as "language" and equally as old as "law."
In the 2oth Century the new sovereign state of Israel was created by its people with the blessing of the then newly created United Nations.
"Palestine" is presently about to be created -- by negotiating its borders and accepting membership in the United Nations. The delay in its formation from 1948 until today is an historical fact -- traceable to many separate events.
The human rights afforded to minorities who will live in Israel and Palestine ought to be no less than the human rights in all other sovereign states, including those with small populations. Israel is one among many sovereign states with populations of its size. The respect for minority rights in Israel is equal to such rights in the most advanced nations on earth.
The result of the facts above is that there will be a two state solution unless war and global politics dictate otherwise.
So Israel must seek allies among the most just and powerful nations earth. So far it has been successful. And Israel's performance in the field, when global emergencies call for foreign nations to help each other, has proved that Israel deserves your support.
Ricardo_Amaral 03/08/2012 06:31 AM Report
@ ChongSunWah – you should not worry about Israel attacking Iran – it is just a strategy to make sure that when the United States government starts cutting their budget, they keep the gravy train coming to Israel right on schedule – this is an opportunity to sweet the gravy train even further for the next few years.
It is almost a sure bet that Barack Obama will be re-elected and will be the president of the United States for the next 4 years.
The Israelis are trying to say that the entire world cares about Israel, and that the United States is doing the right thing to keep giving all these years the unconditional support of the United States government. But when the reality is the world has been saturated of this constant Israeli crisis that it has been going on for decades, and the world is sick and tired of this problem, since there are more important things happening around the world.
I can imagine how the private conversations between U.S. President Barack Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu went behind close doors. Here is how I think the conversation went:
U.S. President Barack Obama (Obama) probably opened the conversation by saying to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (Netanyahu): “everything is spinning out of control in the Middle East right now, and we look to the world like a bunch of fools who are completely clueless about everything we do regarding the countries of the Middle East. We are helping to destabilize the government of Syria, and even that is not going the way we want. And the last thing we need is another major screw up regarding Iran.
We need you to cool off your rhetoric right now regarding Iran, besides this is a presidential election year, and we can't afford for gas prices to skyrocket in 2012.
Netanyahu: O.K., I see that you got the point that we are trying to make – just look around to the damage that our rhetoric it has been inflicting for many months to the collapsing European economy, to the US economy, and to the world economy in general; our rhetoric about attacking Iran it has worked one more time and oil prices have gone up even though global demand for oil has been going down.
Can you imagine what would happen to the price of oil if Israel was stupid enough to attack Iran?
It is good that you grasped what would happen to you re-election efforts, and the damage that skyrocketing oil prices would do to the global economy – just to clarify a little more for you: we are talking about the global economy imploding into a black hole resulting in a lot worse Great Depression than the one that the world had in the 1930's.
Did you grasped the entire picture? We are talking here about economic armageddon.
Now that you got the picture, let's negotiate how much will be included on the “gravy train” for the next 4 years, and make sure that the “gravy train” keeps its regular delivery schedule regarding Israel.
It is a win-win situation for the United States and for Israel; you get re-elected here in the old USA and oil prices starts going down right now without the Israeli threat of attacking Iran.
The timing was perfect for us to bring back the old strategy regarding attacking Iran, we guaranty that the “gravy train” will continue coming from the old USA for 4 more years, and I guess the Iranians also don't mind about this oil embargo business, and so on, since that worked perfect also for the Iranians in every way.
The Iranians have been getting a much higher oil price for their supply, and they are laughing all the way to the bank. The embargo also helped them to get rid off many of the European countries that had no money to pay for their monthly oil bill, because they are all going bankrupt. And at the same time the embargo did free this new supply of oil that Iran can sell at a better price to the Asian countries, and actually they can get paid on time, and India is even willing to pay for the new oil with gold instead of euros or US dollars.
Note: In the old days, this type of activity it was called a blackmail, but in today's world it is negotiation.
In a nutshell: at the end of the day the entire Israel/USA/Iran crisis it is all about money, oil prices and greed.
.
ChongSunWah 03/08/2012 03:43 AM Report
Hello Worldwatcher I found you SO HAPPY:)
You go visit the site Mr Shimon Peres I cannot 'tahun' him when I heard him spoke so 'FAKE' that made me pour my heart out none stop. Still got so many thing I want to say.
I have been working very hard none stop with the hope can get Netanyahu come to his senses and along the way I found out that the 2 state solution is not workable at all after I read the article from Ramzi ElHoury. You go visit my blog to check it out under http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/petition-palestine/a-one-state-solution/
Then another Palestinian living in Germany send me thishttp://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/petition-palestine/alternative-palestinian-agenda/
I will be posting the 2nd letter to Netanyahu very soon under barking dogs don't bite. Now for the petition must change the wording like what you have written.
You know the Jews always said that Hamas wanted to wipe them out and I remembered you have cleared this misunderstanding to me because I need it for my letter to my Jewish Brothers and Sisters and rally for their support to stop Netanyahu madness to bomb Iran.
Can you give to me what Hamas meant about wiping the Jews out?
Thank you very much for helping me out and I am very happy that you are still around because I have been thinking about you all these while. I know you are very angry with the Zionist but a lot of Jews are very good people too they also very upset with the situation now especially with Netanyahu and Liberman.
You go visit http://dearmmlee.wordpress.com/category/sun-wah-chong/my-3-wise-men/ David Marshall a Jewish Singaporean wanted the Palestinians to have a homeland too. He was very sad to see his own people treated the Palestinians so inhumane. We all feel pain for the Palestinians suffering and we are all doing our best to move this matter forward. Meanwhile we keep loving the Jewish people and pray that their heart will be open for the Palestinians people so that the older folks can at least got a decent living before they live this world.
We must all work very hard to help the Palestinians to have a homeland soon because many good Jewish Brothers and sisters also come out and speak strongly and he is Avi Shlaimhttp://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/avi-shlaim-obama-must-stand-up-to-netanyahu-7 536456.html
worldwatcher 03/07/2012 08:05 PM Report
.
"Why anybody with any common sense would be taking seriously this [_*** JEWISH RELIGIOUS EXTREMIST FUNDAMENTALIST ***_] conversation [CLAIM] in 2011, and play along to give some credibility, and make an effort to try to validate such a land claim from thousands of years ago? ...[AND THAT, _3,000 OR 5,000 YEARS AGO_ _*"GOD"*_ PROMISED "THE JEWS" -- ALL OVER THE WORLD -- THE LAND IN HISTORIC PALESTINE]... It is crazy to even bring up such a subject based on the claim of handful of people from 3 to 4 thousand years ago."
IT'S AN ARGUMENT THAT IS ***LITERALLY*** FAR WORSE THAN ***MEDIEVAL***!!!
NO NATION IN THE WORLD WOULD ACCEPT SUCH AN ***UTTERLY RIDICULOUS*** CLAIM -- CERTAINLY NOT THE UNITED STATES -- WHICH IF THE U.S. CARES ABOUT JEWS SO MUCH, THEN GIVE THEM LAND FOR THEIR RACIST, IDEOLOGICALLY JEWISH WHITE-SUPREMACIST, ZIONIST STATE IN *NEVADA*!!
Ricardo_Amaral 03/07/2012 06:27 PM Report
Gelles, what are you trying to say when you wrote?: “It is home to the "People of the Book", and, as such, does not stand alone before those who yearn to turn back the clock 1400 years.”
Are trying to bring Muhammad (26 April 570 A.D. – 8 June 632 A.D.) to this conversation?
Why are you bringing the "People of the Book" subject with me?
I mentioned many times on my postings that I am “AGNOSTIC” and that all these religious fairy tales means nothing to me.
Here is what I posted on various web sites about a year ago during Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's trip to Washington D.C.
During Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's appearance in the U.S. Congress on May 24, 2011
to present his case why the United States should support Israel, he built his case based on mythology such as the story of “David and Goliath,” and he claimed that this was not a distortion of history.
The basis for his claim that the Jewish people has the right to the land of Israel is based on an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 Jewish people who was supposed to have lived in that area of the world about 4,000 years ago – and by 721 BC the Assyrians overrun Israel, disperses the population of about 50,000 Israelites, and takes thousands as slaves. Israel as a nation vanishes.
Why anybody with any common sense would be taking seriously this conversation in 2011, and play along to give some credibility, and make an effort to try to validate such a land claim from thousands of years ago?
The world has changed 1,000 times in the last 2,000 years regarding people's claim to most piece of land all around our planet.
It is crazy to even bring up such a subject based on the claim of handful of people from 3 to 4 thousand years ago.
Hello!!! The lights are on, but is anybody home?
The enthusiasm and explosive way the Senators and Congressmen applauded Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “Fairy Tales” shows the intellectual level of the American Congress – no wonder this country is going to hell in a handbasket.
I am glad that Netanyahu did not bring up the story of Moses to help build his case, since that was a story of the Jews and their Exodus from Egypt. And after leaving Egypt about 5,000 Jewish people were lost in the desert for 40 years.
What kind of people get lost in the desert for 40 years?
I guess they did not have a “Lawrence of Arabia” among them to find the way out.
If my ancestors were lost for 40 years in a desert, I would say that was not the brightest bunch of people in the world, and I would be embarrassed to claim that I was a descendent of such people.
If someone want to bring Hebrew history to support the case of why the United States should support Israel – that is crazy, since at best we are talking about a very small group of people who grew to at most 50,000 people by 721 BC – who had a brief history from 2,000 BC to 721 BC.
Based on that the Hebrews wanted to reclaim by 1948 the land their ancestors had lost 2,700 years ago.
The entire world has changed since 721 BC, and many other groups of people over the years got kicked out of their lands by other groups of people including the native Indian peoples who used to populate the Americas from North to South.
As a US foreign policy based on self-interest and also on a rational level it makes no sense for the United States to give the unconditional support that it has been giving Israel for a long time.
It is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s review one more time: the claims that the Hebrew people has over the land of Israel.
Here is the “History of the Hebrews” in a nutshell:
Around the year 2,000 BC Abraham (the founder of the Jewish religion) is supposed to have migrated with his family into Canaan.
Egypt's king, Ramses II, is now thought to have reigned between 1290-1224 B.C. – this is supposed to be the time when Moses lived and the Jews had their Exodus from Egypt.
At this point they were lost in the desert for 40 years then they managed to find the Promised Land. That brings us to estimate the birth of the Promised Land to around the year 1,180 BC.
King David – Goliath and so on is supposed to have happened around the year 1,050 BC.
In 970 BC King David is succeeded by his son Solomon.
In 721 BC the Assyrians overrun Israel, disperses the Israelites and takes thousands as slaves. Israel as a nation vanishes.
********
Reality check:
Now let us put the spotlight on all this information and try to put it on a more realistic perspective looking back from today.
Around the time of Abraham – this is where Hebrew history starts – the total world population is estimated to have been around 27 million people – and demographers know that 70 % of the population at that time were living in China and in India. That leaves about 8 million people to populate the rest of the world.
I guess at that time Abraham is just starting the Hebrew lineage.
Then we go to Moses time and the Exodus. Total world population is estimated to be around 45 million people around the year 1,200 BC. Again 70 % of the total is living in China and in India – that leaves about 14 million people scattered around the world.
Is it possible that this Exodus from Egypt involved less that 5,000 people? If we want to stretch even further since these people were supposed to be building Pyramids then let’s says there were 10,000 people who left Egypt with Moses in the Exodus. (I can’t imagine 10,000 people being lost in the desert for 40 years, but again…)
Let’s go now to the year 721 BC when the Assyrians overruns Israel, disperses the Israelites and takes thousands as slaves. Israel as a nation vanishes. The year 721 BC is the end of old Israel, until Israel it is recreated by the British in 1948.
In 721 BC the total world population is estimated to be around 80 million people. Again 70 % of the total is living in China and in India – that leaves about 12 million people scattered around the world.
Is it possible that the Israel that were destroyed in 721 BC had no more than 50,000 people living in that area of the world in small villages raging in size from a few hundred people to maybe 2,000 or 3,000 people?
Can anyone on his right mind justify the mess in the Middle East based on this story of a very small group of people who happen to have lived a long time ago?
***********
Here is the estimated global population from 10,000 BC to 2011 AD.
Total World Population in Selected Years:
Year…………..# of World Population
10,000 BC…………4 million people
5,000 BC…………..5 million
4,000 BC…………..7 million
3,000 BC…………14 million
2,000 BC…………27 million
1,000 BC…………50 million
500 BC………….100 million
200 BC………….150 million
1 AD…………….170 million
200 AD………….190 million
300 AD………….190 million
400 AD………….190 million
500 AD………….190 million
600 AD………….200 million
700 AD………….210 million
800 AD……….…220 million
900 AD…….……240 million
1,000 AD………..265 million
1,100 AD………..320 million
1,200 AD………..360 million
1,300 AD………..360 million
1,400 AD………..350 million
1,500 AD………..425 million
1,550 AD………..480 million
1,600 AD………..545 million
1,700 AD………..610 million
1,750 AD………..720 million
1,800 AD………..900 million
1,850 AD……...1,200 million or 1.2 billion
1,900 AD……...1,625 million or 1.6 billion
1,925 AD……...2,000 million or 2.0 billion
1,950 AD……...2,500 million or 2.5 billion
1,960 AD……...3,000 million or 3.0 billion
1,975 AD……...4,000 million or 4.0 billion
1,985 AD……...5,000 million or 5.0 billion
1,999 AD……...6,000 million or 6.0 billion
2,006 AD……...6,500 million or 6.5 billion
2,011 AD........7,000 million or 7.0 billion (people by October 2011)
Note: If you do check various sources regarding the history of world population then you will find out that the various estimates varies a little from source to source for the figures before 1 AD, but at the end of the day their estimates are not too far apart.
*****
Population:
Brazil: 203,429,773 (July 2011 est.)
Russia: 138,739,892 (July 2011 est.)
India: 1,189,172,906 (July 2011 est.)
China: 1,336,718,015 (July 2011 est.)
Total Bric's countries: 3 billion people
Israel: 7,473,052 (July 2010 est.)
.
Gelles 03/07/2012 05:12 PM Report
The issue is peace and human rights -- especially economic rights to protect working people from totalitarian governments and corrupt markets.
China is home to more wage slaves than we have people. That has to change. We are complicit in that bloody mess, and we have to change with China to price Chinese imports high enough to protect the global work force from poverty and exploitation by plutocrats and bureaucrats.
Haters of America and domestic self-haters be damned. You don't know what you're talking about. Haters of Israel, join Hitler wherever he is. He's on your side and you're on his.
Gelles 03/07/2012 05:01 PM Report
Ricardo the Brazilian Prophet intones unsparingly:
..... "The reality is: Israel with 7 million people is immaterial and irrelevant in a global population of 7 and very soon 8 billion people."
As usual Ricardo is wrong: Israel, according to all candidates for leadership in America, is a stubborn democratic power in the Middle East -- whose Parliament and separated branches of government conform to Western values and standards not yet copied sufficiently by its neighbors or its enemies -- most of whom who also see the USA as the Great Satan or worse.
With the help of France, England, Germany and America, Israel has become able to defend itself with sufficient force to protect it from a second Holocaust threatened by irrational foes. Like all other small nations on earth, it is not expendable. Its security is everyone's concern. It is home to the "People of the Book", and, as such, does not stand alone before those who yearn to turn back the clock 1400 years.
Israel is far from perfect. But it is decent and it is modern by the standards of our time. America is the Great Nation all others look to for global leadership to move from a darker past to a brighter future. The BRIC nations look to us -- I trust we will not fail them.
Richard_DeBiase 03/07/2012 01:50 PM Report
Dear worldwatcher:
Thanks for your correction below at 03/06/2012 07:34 PM.
I used the phrase "It's my understanding that..." to indicate that there is some doubt in my mind about the truth of the statement "Iran has threatened to destroy Israel". I have no first-hand quote in mind from the Iranian government. Further below, ShalomFreedman 03/06/2012 01:02 PM says "Iran has threatened to destroy Israel and with nuclear weapons might have the capability to do so." So maybe ShalomFreedman can offer us a specific source citation for the statement: "Iran has threatened to destroy Israel".
My comment was also intended to say that, even if Iran has threatened to destroy Israel, maybe it can be dismissed as bombastic bluster.
Best regards,
Ricardo_Amaral 03/07/2012 12:19 PM Report
Here is proof of why Iran needs nuclear weapons to be able to defend itself against a potential foreign attack.
The American Prospect
"Regime change since 1953"
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63583&perpage=6&highlight=1953&pagenumber=1
A very happy group of men convened at the White House on Sept. 4, 1953, to hear a cloak-and-dagger story that would resonate through all of subsequent American history. Two weeks before, the Central Intelligence Agency had overthrown Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran. It was the first time the CIA had deposed a foreign leader, and on this day the agent who ran the operation, Kermit Roosevelt, was to explain how he did it....
*****
Here is an interesting map of US military bases around Iran:
http://www.qwmagazine.com/2011/12/13/image-us-military-bases-around-iran/
I wonder how American would feel if it was the other way around and if Iran had over 40 military bases across the borders of Canada, and Mexico?
I guess maybe Americans would not mind it.
.
aj617 03/07/2012 09:37 AM Report
The facades of the set are nearly complete, the scripts written, and the
cameras ready to roll, and soon it can expected that the long-awaited
action movie - Attack on Iran - will be produced. Before y'all go ahead with
this folly please consider a contrarian point of view: that nuclear war is
actually impossible despite appearances, and due to this fact an attempt
by Iran to develop nuclear weapons would constain, not enhance, their
freedom of action (as they have ours) and should therefore (by perverse logic)
be quietly welcomed. They would lose influence even as they succeeded
and would soon come to share our guilt.
Perhaps my faith in the unseen power (to control nukes) is misplaced.
It is said to be a bundle of exotic technologies manifest in a network of secret
devices that barely contain a molten heart of evil with a gosamer thread of philosophy.
Most of its effort is devoted to keeping out of sight, but various interventions in the
world at large have been authorized. You will remember its influence, if you
can still remember, as a playland of kismets with kisses in your youth, before it
turned destructive and deadly later on. It will persist until all dreams are dead.
It is in fact a superior weapons system, and it will not allow a nuclear war to
end the Game, though it serves a purpose to have you believe that it might.
Stay tuned for the next episode of the alternative show - Don't Worry Be Happy
or How I Learned to Love the Bomb.
Ricardo_Amaral 03/07/2012 06:51 AM Report
Regarding the United States and Israel: Most countries around the world realized that there are more important things around the world related to the future such as India and China with almost 2.5 billion people than wasting time and money with little Israel with 7 million people.
The reality is: Israel with 7 million people is immaterial and irrelevant in a global population of 7 and very soon 8 billion people.
The world don't revolve around Israel and its never ending troubles.
As the economic and financial power moves from Europe and the United States to the Asian countries – All the leverage that Israel has had in the last 60 years becomes completely irrelevant, and obsolete on this new world of the 21st century.
That's a fact!!!!!!!!
It's crazy for the United States to continue to give Israel all kinds of support as the United States has been giving in the last 60 years.
The world has changed in drastic ways, and even the United States is becoming a former superpower faster than most people has realized.
Right now the United States is going through the late stages of a life cycle of a superpower - all superpowers have the same life cycle: birth, maturation, old age and disintegration.
The United States and Europe have reached the old age stage, and now they are moving to the disintegration stage – and we can see signs of that all over the place.
The foreign policy of the United States it has been a complete disaster in the last 10 years, and today everything is spinning completely out of control in the Middle East and beyond.
Supporting Israel in this blind fashion as the United States has been doing for decades – it goes completely against the long and short-term self-interest of the United States in the Middle East and around the world.
There are many naïve people around the world who think that a country can be a friend of another country, when in reality, in the words of Charles de Gaulle, "in international relations, a nation has no friends, only interests."
For some unjustifiable reason Israel demands that the United States keeps giving blind support to Israel even though most of this support goes against the short and long term self-interest of the United States and the American people.
China is 100 percent correct in not paying attention to the latest UN oil embargo placed against Iran, since that goes 100 percent against the self-interest of China not only today, but also in the long-term.
China and India should buy any extra oil that they can buy from Iran, since that is a good policy for China, and India and also to the people of both countries.
If old collapsing Europe is so foolish as to follow this silly UN oil embargo against Iranian oil – that is their problem since you have to be very stupid to do such a thing when the entire European economic system is collapsing – and this European pathetic foolishness will help release an extra supply of oil for countries such as China and India.
It will help Iran also in another way, since many of these European customers are many months behind in paying their oil bills to Iran, and now Iran will be able to sell all these oil to people in Asian and they will be able to actually get paid for the oil.
And the Indian government said the other day that they are willing to pay for this Iranian oil with gold instead of US dollars.
That's a win-win situation for Iran and also for India.
If Israel still want a loyal friend, a protector and fun, then they should buy a dog.
.
Ricardo_Amaral 03/07/2012 06:41 AM Report
March 6, 2012 - I just finished watching tonight's show the interview with Jeffrey Goldberg and Dennis Ross about the Israel/Iran current crisis.
The entire interview was a big PR job on behalf of the “Jewish Lobby”.
These guys talk about the United States and Israel as if these countries were equals in the global stage.
The United States is one of the largest countries in the world with the largest economy in the world, and a population of around 310 million people.
On the other hand, Israel is a country smaller than the state of New Jersey, also with a population smaller than the state of New Jersey, and Israel has an economy half of the size of the state of New Jersey in terms of GDP.
Population:
State of New Jersey population: 9 million people (2011 est.)
Israel population: 7 million people (2011 est.)
GDP:
State of New Jersey GDP: US$ 500 billion (2011 est.)
Israel GDP: US$ 245 billion (2011 est.)
And these clowns have the arrogance, and they think they are the equals of the United States.
And at the end of the show these talking heads could not resist, and they had to use the poor me card, and they brought up the holocaust in an effort to imply that poor Israel is going to be annihilated without the total protection from the United States.
These talking heads seem to be completely clueless about how the rest of the world feels about this Iran/Israel crisis, and what they are doing about it.
This silly talk from Israel it has been going on for over seven years.
We have been laughing for many years about these guys, and their old comedy show about Israel is planning to attack Iran....and Iran will have nuclear weapons in 6 months.....
Hah, hah, hah....
You can follow this old comedy series at:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67053&perpage=6&pagenumber=69
.
anne4444 03/06/2012 08:30 PM Report
When we look into the sky, we are all humble by the creation.
There are total 48 dimensions in our universe. 36 dimensions are inaccessible to us. Our souls can access 12 dimensions (12 strands soul DNA) while this material world with physical body limits us to only 3 dimensions (Double Helix DNA).
Knowledge is limitless, so does the intelligent being.
Gelles 03/06/2012 07:54 PM Report
"Yet, America is prepared to defend civilization far better than its enemies are prepared to end it."
And that is their only desire: Unless Russia, China and Iran, move closer to our values -- not theirs -- they deserve the greater tongue-lashing than we so often receive from our Western Civ. critics (most of whom today are on the left). This from a Keynesian seated on the left side of the aisle.
worldwatcher 03/06/2012 07:41 PM Report
Correction: It's Martin _Indyk_ -- typically undisclosed Zionist Jew and Israel lobby agent.
(Semi-phonetic typo: I misspelled his name below.)
worldwatcher 03/06/2012 07:34 PM Report
.
Richard_DeBiase 03/06/2012 03:53 PM:"It's my understanding that Iran has threatened to destroy Israel."
IRAN HAS *NEVER* THREATENED TO DESTROY ISRAEL
-- UNLESS ISRAEL ATTACKS FIRST.
IT'S ONE OF THOSE **REPEATED LIES** -- **WAR PROPAGANDA** -- LIKE, "AHMADINEJAD WANTS TO KILL ALL THE JEWS"
-- ANOTHER **REPEATED LIE** BY UNDISCLOSED ZIONIST ISRAEL LOBBY 'APPARACHIKS' IN PLACES LIKE "THE CHARLIE ROSE SHOW" AND THE REST OF THE U.S. MAINSTREAM MEDIA
-- BY THOSE UNDISCLOSED ZIONISTS LIKE DENNIS ROSS AND MARTIN INDICT AS WELL AS THE ONES WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY JEWISH FROM THEIR LAST NAME
-- THAT *ALWAYS* GOES *UNCHALLENGED*!
(There are some 25-30,000 IRANIAN JEWS still living in IRAN -- a prominent one went to Israel and, disgusted at Israel's mass homicidal racism against the Palestinians, he RETURNED to live in Iran -- AND NOT A *HAIR* IS HARMED ON THEIR HEADS! Over the decades, any number of Jews have actually, quietly *QUIT* ISRAEL and left!)
ISRAEL HAS **STARTED** EVERY WAR IT'S BEEN IN (ABOUT 5 MAJOR WARS, FROM THE VERY FIRST *COLONIAL* WAR IN 1948 -- IT'S SO-CALLED "WAR OF INDEPENDENCE" -- AND IN EVERY COUNTRY AROUND IT -- ALL TO STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S/COUNTRIES LAND.
-- EXCEPT THE 1973 WAR (WHEN EGYPT TRIED TO GET BACK LAND STOLEN BY ISRAEL).
IRAN HAS **NEVER** ATTACKED ANOTHER COUNTRY FIRST!
THE U.S. CIA *OVERTHREW* THE *DEMOCRATIC* GOVT OF IRAN IN 1953 -- AND BROUGHT IN THE EXTREMELY BRUTAL U.S.-SUPPORTED SHAH DICTATORSHIP WHICH LASTED FOR *DECADES*
-- WHICH LED TO THE SHAH'S OVERTHROW
-- WHICH LED TO THE GOVT AND SITUATION IRAN HAS TODAY:
IT'S CALLED *BLOWBACK*.
PURPOSELY LYING ABOUT SADDAM'S WMD'S, PRETEXTED THE 2ND U.S.-IRAQ WAR **FOR ISRAEL**
-- LIES FED BY ZIONIST AND ISRAEL LOBBY 'APPARACHIKS' IN OUR GOVT AND MEDIA WAS BAD FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE
-- AND THE 1,000'S OF U.S. SOLDIERS THAT GOT KILLED, AND THE *MANY* 10'S OF 1,00O'S OF U.S. SOLDIERS (MALE & FEMALE) THAT HAVE GOTTEN *MAIMED*
-- BUT PURPOSELY LYING ABOUT *IRAN* TO TAKE US TO WAR **AGAIN FOR ISRAEL**, WILL MAKE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN LOOK LIKE A PICNIC AND BE VERY BAD FOR ***US***!!!
-- Of course, not at all a "picnic" for the 100's of 1,000's of , probably over *1,000,000*, civilians alone killed in Iraq and the at least 10's of 1,000's of civilians alone killed in Afghanistan, besides the millions of Iraqi (an unknown number in Afghanistan) civilians alone seriously wounded/maimed, besides the millions of Iraqi (an unknown number in Afghanistan) civilians turned into refugees.
IT WILL PLUNGE *US* INTO _AN INTERNATIONAL WAR_ IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND _DESTROY_ OUR ECONOMY!! -- FROM THE WORLD OIL SUPPLY DISRUPTION ALONE!!
I actually hope that Iran *WILL* develop nukes or the clear capability for nukes to help stabilize the situation in the Mideast, since ISRAEL WAS THE *1ST* COUNTRY TO INTRODUCE NUKES (some 300-400) INTO THE MIDEAST.
IN FACT, AHMADINEJAD SAID THAT IF ISRAEL *DOES* ATTACK IRAN, THEN GOOD!:
THAT WILL MEAN **THE END** OF "THAT NASTY LITTLE RACIST STATE" -- JUST LIKE THAT FRENCH OFFICIAL ONCE SAID -- NAMED ISRAEL
-- AND I TOO WOULD SAY **"GOOD RIDDANCE"** TO THAT ATROCIOUS COLONIAL PERPETRATION AGAINST THE NATIVE PEOPLE -- THE *PALESTINIANS* -- BY THAT RACIST JEWISH WHITE-SUPREMACIST STATE IDEOLOGY -- ZIONISM
-- THAT, AS PREDICTED BY THE UK AND U.S. STATE DEPARTMENTS AT THE TIME -- WAY BACK IN 1947 & 1948 -- OVER HALF A CENTURY AGO
-- "WOULD BE _NOTHING BUT *TROUBLE*_ FOR US FOR THE NEXT *50* YEARS!"
THEY WAY *UNDER-ESTIMATED*.
Gelles 03/06/2012 07:33 PM Report
For analysis of the issues and choices I give this show an "A". And it needs an "A". Risks are high. Less than "A" would not be acceptable.
For predictions -- make your own. To yourself -- or share them.
I heard Panetta today on CSPAN3 speaking to AIPAC. His speech was even "A+". He wants Israel to cooperate with our current plan to "WAIT". But he also agreed their decisions are "their's", "not our's".
Me? I'm prepared to wait. I'm also prepared for any strike Israel may in fact deliver as has happened in the past.
Everyone is prepared to win. No one is prepared to lose. Netanyahu and his defense minister Ehud Barak and staffs, have responsibilities to do the right thing -- no matter how hard it is to know anything for sure.
Yet, America is prepared to defend civilization far better than it enemies are prepared to end it.
tabs 03/06/2012 07:30 PM Report
So, are Mr Goldberg and Mr Ross trying to talk themselves, America and Israel into a war? That we might as well get used to the idea that war is the only option that remains in trying to thwart Iranian nuclear aspirations? The part of the Netanyahu AIPAC speech that no one has addressed is where he reads the Allied letter to the Jewish Congress in 1944. Pointedly where he reads the line that if the Allies bombed Auschwitz it might provoke the Germans to even greater atrocities. The point being that, wasn't the on going Holocaust an atrocity enough, how much worse could the Germans have made it? Further that by not bombing Auschwitz lives were unnecessarily lost by not disrupting German efforts. This was in affect throwing the gauntlet down in front of Obama by claiming that the political and moral laxity of the FDR administration in in not thwarting the German genocide of the Jews is being repeated by the Obama administration. For Iran is already committing acts of war against Israel and America and that matters will just get worse if the Iranians get nuclear capability.
In the final analysis no matter what the US or Israel might do or not do with regards to Iranian nuclear aspirations it is a no win proposition. It is going to be a very heavy cost for the WORLD (price of oil) to bear. The only hope is that the Iranians will acquiesce in some fashion, to stand down from their pursuit. The Iranians seemingly have no desire to accommodate America, Israel or the west in general on this matter. What Iran's ultimate aim is in pursuing a nuclear strategy is an unknown which causes a great deal of fear and trepidation in the West. Meanwhile behind all the smoke and mirrors the Iranians keep on plodding along to what ever end they have in mind.
SharkswithfrikingLazers 03/06/2012 06:29 PM Report
Obama said it well today: Too much bluster, sanctions working, diplomacy possible:
"When I came into office, Iran was unified, on the move, had made substantial progress on its nuclear program, and the world was divided in terms of how to deal with it. What we’ve been able to do over the last three years is mobilize unprecedented, crippling sanctions on Iran. Iran is feeling the bite of these sanctions in a substantial way. The world is unified; Iran is politically isolated.
And what I have said is, is that we will not countenance Iran getting a nuclear weapon. My policy is not containment; my policy is to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon -- because if they get a nuclear weapon that could trigger an arms race in the region, it would undermine our non-proliferation goals, it could potentially fall into the hands of terrorists. And we’ve been in close consultation with all our allies, including Israel, in moving this strategy forward.
At this stage, it is my belief that we have a window of opportunity where this can still be resolved diplomatically. That’s not just my view. That’s the view of our top intelligence officials; it’s the view of top Israeli intelligence officials. And, as a consequence, we are going to continue to apply the pressure even as we provide a door for the Iranian regime to walk through where they could rejoin the community of nations by giving assurances to the international community that they’re meeting their obligations and they are not pursuing a nuclear weapon.
That’s my track record. Now, what’s said on the campaign trail -- those folks don’t have a lot of responsibilities. They’re not Commander-in-Chief. And when I see the casualness with which some of these folks talk about war, I’m reminded of the costs involved in war. I’m reminded that the decision that I have to make in terms of sending our young men and women into battle, and the impacts that has on their lives, the impact it has on our national security, the impact it has on our economy.
This is not a game. There’s nothing casual about it. And when I see some of these folks who have a lot of bluster and a lot of big talk, but when you actually ask them specifically what they would do, it turns out they repeat the things that we’ve been doing over the last three years, it indicates to me that that’s more about politics than actually trying to solve a difficult problem.
Now, the one thing that we have not done is we haven’t launched a war. If some of these folks think that it’s time to launch a war, they should say so. And they should explain to the American people exactly why they would do that and what the consequences would be. Everything else is just talk."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/06/press-conference-president
SharkswithfrikingLazers 03/06/2012 06:20 PM Report
"Go lay down."
That is what I tell my dog when she hears a noise and attacks the front door.
Stuxnet and Assassinations. Period.
(By the way, "60 Minutes" did a great segment on Stuxnet last Sunday:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57390124/stuxnet-computer-worm-opens-new-era-of-warfare/)
Notsofast 03/06/2012 04:38 PM Report
Charlie,
The pro-Israel love fest (interviews with Peres and Ross and Goldberg) was truly nauseating. What happened to your sense of balance, fairness, and objectivity?
Do we really need more show hours during which the usual pro-Israel cast and characters repeat AIPAC’s talking points ad nauseaum? I don’t think so! We have witnessed a hysteric anti-Iran propaganda and misinformation campaign that has reached a crescendo during the AIPAC meeting by people who cannot be possibly objective on the nuclear issue. (D. Ross, for example, is known for being a “dishonest broker” for tabling Israel’s positions as a U.S. peace negotiator. He is now part of a pressure group named “United Against a Nuclear Iran” whose latest “achievement” resulted in parents in Iran not being able to send money to their children studying abroad through the banking system! Goldberg is justifiably criticized for his semi-annual prediction about Israel’s intentions to attack Iran using essentially what the military and intelligence officials in Israel feed him).
To avoid the tragedies that resulted from similar campaigns in the past, responsible journalists need to avoid being “embedded” in them. The whole discussion on Iran should not revolve around whether and when Israel (U.S.) chooses to bomb Iran (as if this nation of 75 millions is a pile of inanimate objects that can be used for target practice). A question that you should have asked your guests is that WHY a country that has an arsenal of 200-300 nuclear bombs with delivery systems, the most sophisticated conventional weapons (courtesy of U.S. taxpayers) and second strike capabilities (using submarines courtesy of German taxpayers) feels “existentially threatened?” Why are the Iranian rulers, despite thirty years of evidence to the contrary, presented as more fanatic, zealous, and irrational than many members of the Israel government like Lieberman and Bibi and those whom they represent? WHY is Iran the “center of moral corruption” in the world when it is Israel that periodically levels its neighborhood and kills hundreds of innocent women, men, and children as part of its shooting-into-a-fish-barrel exercise?
Obviously, like many of your colleagues in the Western media, you are too, let’s say, timid to ask this type of questions. So why not invite guests who can eloquently represent the Iran’s side of the story at the same time? You owe a more balanced approach to matters of life and death to your viewers.
jason 03/06/2012 04:15 PM Report
this is just like the Euro and Greek debt situation
we kick the can down the road with the problem remained UNFIXED.
the only solution is to attack Iran.
but we really have no money to do war...
so we kick the can down the road and hope to get lucky...
Richard_DeBiase 03/06/2012 03:53 PM Report
This was a good discussion. I cannot think of a more vexing problem.
It's my understanding that Iran has threatened to destroy Israel. But it's easy to be bombastic when nobody takes your threats seriously. Iran may come to discover that being taken seriously is not as much fun as it sounds.
Obama should take every opportunity to avoid another war. But I'm afraid that the only military option is, regime change. I'm afraid that a limited military engagement, to set back Iran's nuclear program, will backfire horribly.
Good luck, everyone.
Dasein 03/06/2012 03:44 PM Report
Iran's best option is to strike Israel's nuclear facilities first, and then, if attacked by the USA, to mine the Staits. The justification for a first strike is obvious: Israel's nuclear forces are a threat to the entire area and must be eliminated. The justification for closing the Straits is equally obvious: economic sactions can come from war as easily as diplomatic actions.
worldwatcher 03/06/2012 03:36 PM Report
.
NO MORE _WARS FOR ISRAEL_ WITH OUR BLOOD AND TREASURE!
AND NO MORE _UNDISCLOSED_ _ZIONISTS_ AND _ISRAEL LOBBY_ AGENTS.
ShalomFreedman 03/06/2012 01:02 PM Report
This was a first- rate discussion. I would take exception a bit to the emphasis both place on the Israeli leadership making as first principle their own independent action. Prime Minister Shamir during the first Gulf War voluntarily refrained from attacking Saddam Hussein's Iraq though Iraq had launched missles against Israel. The Bush Government promised to reply and in fact did so inadequately. Fortunately the missiles were not that much of a threat. A nuclear weapon in the hands of Iran is something else.
I learned much from Dennis Ross analysis of Presidential thinking. I think both and he and Jeffrey Goldberg made clear the critical time- line difference between the U.S. and Israel. Again the most important point is that it is an existensial issue for Israel. Iran has threatened to destroy Israel and with nuclear weapons might have the capability to do so.
Both respondents seemed to suggest that the meeting bought time for Obama and his plan for sanctions. What we may see next is negotiations with Iran which simply buy Iran time to pursue its nuclear program. This of course would be a difficult and unacceptable situation for Israel.
I would make one more point. Israel's aim should be to prevent Iran having a nuclear option while at the same time limiting the damage Iran, and its allies would do in return.
I do not know how this will work out. I just pray Iran will be stopped without doing great harm to anyone.
REMant 03/06/2012 12:08 PM Report
The president nowadays is in a position to commit the US to combat on his own initiative, and not even need tell anyone except a few in Congress. If he makes public his position, therefore, it is only for public consumption. Until the second or third week of November you can be sure Obama will do little or nothing to give the impression to be visibly at odds with Israel. But since I don't think Netanyahu and entourage would necessarily have been here if they didn't need something from the US, I think you can discount unilateral action on their part. And since the president knows that precipitate action would do little to aid his re-election and more likely harm it, I think you can presume nothing will be done until after the election, and probably not then. He might, of course, be tempted to pull a Truman if a neocon gets the GOP nomination and this issue comes up in presidential debates like Quemoy and Matsu, but I doubt it will make any difference. The public and certainly not the armed forces has no appetite for another Iraq or Afghanistan, no matter how far down the list of disliked nations Iran falls. They may not want to demonstrate this at the polls, but at some point, if things worsen, they are going to have to make their views known. Also I think Putin's re-election argues this controversy is likely to be mooted.
PS- Well, I just back from voting. I was the 34th. You can call it "Stupor Tuesday" around here. No TV ads, no signs, not even any info on the election commission website.