Charlie Rose

elestirici  12/12/2011 07:52 PM Report

Charlie could restrain himself reasonably well until the mention of Turkey, at which time he had to prove his grasp of Turkish politics from his recent encounters with Turkish politicians and businessmen. He was totally wrong of course, and Ferguson's brief summary was much closer to the truth. It got worse when Iran was being discussed, for a moment it wasn't clear who was interviewing whom. The selection of the guests are generally very good, but generally, at the end I say to myself, "I wish Charlie could keep his mouth shut and let the guest finish her/his statement".

greattimes  12/12/2011 10:41 AM Report

Many thanks again to Charly and his great guest!

I enjoy the common sense from Niall and his ability

to cut threw the pile of information and get to

what counts in a simple way.

Gelles  12/11/2011 03:36 PM Report

Dear Charly-knows ~

Niall Ferguson, CR, U and I, know we don't know everything. But we want to know what's fair or unfair, best or worst, for our children and theirs.

The 20th Century proved man is not God's creation, but nature's. He has the morals of a virus, the promise of a bacterium. Yet he can and does do better. Will Rogers never met a man he did not like. I usually believe in the truth of that ideal.

Fortunately, the worst we know has happened, we know from movies, plays and books. We have been eye-witness to much of the best. William Buckley was born when I was born. He died nearly 4 years ago. He was not well, had his fill of this life and did not fear eternity. I thought while we were both alive that he had the wrong prescription for supporting the Golden Rule -- for me, the supreme law for man on Earth. He, of course, saw merit in his own convictions.

Like any mortal, I would like to die in my sleep and leave as little mess behind for family to clean up. If it happened tonight, I would have failed to minimize the mess. I spend too much time engaged in bad habits -- categorized by most as escapism. Nothing illegal. All familiar friends.

Your pen name, c-nose--where'd you get it? Popped into your head, I'd guess, based more on sound than anything else.

I lost my first name, John, because of trouble with passwords and other nonsense. To hate computer short-comings is good. For years I loved computers. Now they can cause me grief. Jon Huntsman is a very appealing candidate. He has been stressing a "deficit in confidence" in our cherished institutions; and he wants to grow manufactured and other necessary output that rewards individuals and societies for good work and good conduct.

In connection with such growth he never spends words on the deficit in demand. For this I hold him accountable.

The importance of ending all deficits in demand (and supply) has been recognized by all worthy of high office. If he does not change his tune I will wish him no success.

America is home to many ethnic groups. Most still love a nation associated with their ethnicity. They are not wandering nomads. The have a past that knew real borders.

Jews without Jerusalem and Eretz Yisrael were wanderers to some extent. They made great citizens of many nations where they lived. But they often retained an ethnicity that would be happier with real borders and real people. There are many reasons for a Jewish State. This is one.

The Arab Spring may eventually favor a Jewish State. Arab democracy may favor human rights. Iran needs to prefer nuclear non-proliferation to nuclear murder or increased risk of nuclear accident.

Bill Buckley and I agreed on this point and on his love of the piano.

Charli-NO's (as in NO) ~ so long for now

AQQ  12/11/2011 03:34 PM Report

I love Charlie, but this is one of his worst "interrupt the guest" performances. Good lord... Ferguson handled it with admirable tact.

chawlynose  12/11/2011 10:51 AM Report

Now that I've watched half of this interview, maybe my criticism of this gentleman was a little harsh. I was basing my comment on a PBS program centered on him a few years ago that was Highly Sensationalized (I didn't like it, so I didn't trust it). Also, the term, 'killer Apps', is annoying to me, because I Hate Computer Terminology (I think it's way over done by too many jackasses).

But this interview shows that he's not such a horse's ass. Reality is too 'Dynamic' to really 'know' everything; I think he realizes that.

Gelles  12/11/2011 06:52 AM Report

They might offer a good one, two punch against defeatism.

A sentence checker is possible but not cheap -- and would not be infallible. Post-send edit is super-cheap and nearly infallible. How about a ten cent charge for every post-send edit. No billing. To sign up for it you would have to deposit one dollar -- not refundable -- good for 2 years.

Revenue from post-send edit charges would pay its cost. Profit above cost would go to CR as an annual Christmas present from the Neiman Marcus catalog -- not in cash. CR could avoid any income tax on the present by forwarding it to me. I would pay the tax as punishment for my errors.

Gelles  12/11/2011 06:31 AM Report

Tom Friedman explained Americans Elect to me better than I had thought possible. It makes me believe there's more to it than what its own website otherwise suggests. PART OF WHAT FRIEDMAN WROTE IN THE NY TIMES IS AS FOLLOWS:

The goal of Americans Elect is to take a presidential nominating process now monopolized by the Republican and Democratic parties, which are beholden to their special interests, and blow it wide open — guaranteeing that a credible third choice, nominated independently, will not only be on the ballot in every state but be able to take part in every presidential debate and challenge both parties from the middle with the best ideas on how deal with the debt, education and jobs.

“Our goal is to open up what has been an anticompetitive process to people in the middle who are unsatisfied with the choices of the two parties,” said Kahlil Byrd, the C.E.O. of Americans Elect, speaking from its swank offices, financed with some serious hedge-fund money, a stone’s throw from the White House.

As the group explains on its Web site (americanselect.org ):

..... “Americans Elect is the first-ever open nominating process. We’re using the Internet to give every single voter — Democrat, Republican or independent — the power to nominate a presidential ticket in 2012. The people will choose the issues. The people will choose the candidates. And in a secure, online convention next June, the people will make history by putting their choice on the ballot in every state.”

Here is how it will work, explains Elliot Ackerman, an Iraq war veteran with a Silver Star, who serves as the chief operating officer of Americans Elect, and whose father, Peter, a successful investor, has been a prime engine behind the group. First, anyone interested in becoming a delegate goes to the Americans Elect Web site and registers. As part of that process, you will be asked to fill in a questionnaire about your political priorities: education, foreign policy, the economy, etc. This enables Americans Elect to put you in contact with others who share your views so you can discuss them and organize together.

Then you will be invited to draft a candidate or support one who has already been drafted and to contribute to the list of questions that anyone running on the Americans Elect platform will have to answer on the site.

“The questions, the priorities, the nominations and the rules will all come from the community, not from two entrenched parties,” said Ackerman.

Any presidential nominee must conform to all the Constitutional requirements, as well as be considered someone of similar stature to our previous presidents. That means no Lady Gaga allowed.

Every candidate will have to post in words or video his or her answers to the platform questions produced by the Americans Elect delegates. In April 2012, the candidate pool will be reduced to six through three rounds of voting.

The six, assuming they all want to run, will then have to name their running mates. The only rule is that a Democrat must run with a Republican or independent, and a Republican with a Democrat or independent.

“Each presidential candidate has to pick a running mate outside of their party and reaching across the divide of politics,” said Ackerman.

In June 2012, the online convention will choose who among the six will run as the Americans Elect candidate — automatically on the ballot in all 50 states.

...

Write it down: Americans Elect. What Amazon.com did to books, what the blogosphere did to newspapers, what the iPod did to music, what drugstore.com did to pharmacies, Americans Elect plans to do to the two-party duopoly that has dominated American political life — remove the barriers to real competition, flatten the incumbents and let the people in. Watch out.

======= end Friedman (partial copyrighted opinion)

[Friedman partial is offered at the teachable moment in accordance with law] ======

Now, I still have not figured out to become an effective delegate or elector under the Constitution and AE rules. It may be all there, but I'm not fully on to it. I do like what little I understand of how to get OUTPUT BASED MONEY on the minds of ordinary people who need a job, a skill, a loan or break.

AE seems to promote "competition" as the way to improve our "cooperation" with each other as Americans and residents on Earth.

It also promotes "cooperation" as a necessary way to enjoy "competition" and its beneficial results. In "Nixon Agonistes", the book by Gary Wills, (the smartest man amongst us) wrote, competition makes sense only if repeated with new contests -- and no sense if all losers are incinerated for losing.

I like General James Logan Jones, Jr. (born December 19, 1943). He is the former United States National Security Advisor and a retired United States Marine Corps General. He is presidential in manner and has a splendid reputation. As his running mate I might like Ben Bernanke, who seems to be unafraid of money and monetary systems of production, consumption and democracy. They might off a good one, two punch against defeatism.

Gelles  12/11/2011 05:30 AM Report

finalfantasytown ~

Should the US have had a different Chinese ally in WWII, such as Mao instead of Chiang Kai-shek? How would General Joseph Stilwell have answered that question? Did WWII begin the transformation of Asia into the Meiji Restoration model? Is the American presence in Asia sufficient for its best effect there and in Europe and the Western Hemisphere? And what about our polar regions, and near and outer space? Even cyberspace, science, engineering, and Olympic competition?

The question you asked was even harder.But the easy answer is "maybe".

finalfantasytown  12/11/2011 03:45 AM Report

Should it be worried that United States would have been conducted into world war two circle if being militarily involved in the wrong combinated affairs in China because tasting meat and blood results in the similar disease and messier things will happen. Are immune method available currently?

Gelles  12/10/2011 09:46 PM Report

I guess I mean

http://www.c-span.org/Campaign2012/

Gelles  12/10/2011 09:43 PM Report

Election 2012 will be a humdinger. It may start the revolution we need to reform debt-based capitalism until it conforms to output-(and results)-based golden-rule-ism.

CSPAN is starting its TV-internet version of the issues and solutions competing for our attention.

The CR Show is also something of this sort -- but its archive is not condensed enough for the laity.

www.outputbasedmoney.info/.crs.htm <==>is a help in this matter. I hope to find on CSPAN.org (or com) some stuff to link to from here.

Gelles  12/10/2011 09:28 PM Report

Why the sharp disagreement on what the future will or should hold (for the human race whose best segment wants freedom for all of it,) between Obama, Rose, Ferguson, Tett, Rubin, Henri-Levy, (and Republicans I watched in replay today, like Huntsman, Romney, and Gingrich), and commentators here (like Freedman, zb1, Chawleynose, John Gelles and others)?

We all have had more common experiences with democracy than not. We all know the stubborn way those we love the most may have an independent view of what is fact or fiction, what is good or bad.

The heart of the matter is the persistence of poverty in an age of potential zero-scarcity. Some blame the poor, some the rich, some the government, some left-wing thought, some right-wing thought, some religious difference, some ethnic difference, some nationalism, some money, some education some ignorance, etc. All are right. Differences make for disagreement. Again the real issue is poverty and how to end it once and for all.

If pressed, all will agree that if we pushed the restart button -- and every bank account were reset to AVERAGE every Christmas, and this were done for 20 years in a row, in a few short years after that experience, we would end up back where we are today: poverty would be back. And inequality in wealth and income would be as extreme as inequality in useful talent has always been.

So I say our problem is not with other people -- it is with the fact that we have yet to find the means to sustain a zero-scarcity world or the golden rule or both.

We can reject the emphasis on materialism above, and switch from wealth to POWER and BELIEF. In this case we want freedom to live in a world apart from other worlds and to believe in facts unique to individuals. Unlike a world without poverty, this imagined place would be a world without rhyme, reason or a possible future.

Huntsman, Romney and Gingrich wanted America's role as Peace-keeper in Chief, measured by economic, industrial, military and moral power facts, to continue for the foreseeable future. Other Americans would settle for future partnerships with nations who proved in fact to be as good as we are. To confirm whom these might be I suggest colonies be formed in several candidates for leader-partnerships. The colonies would contain one million volunteers from each candidate nation. These volunteers would have to appear from time to time on reality TV -- broadcast everywhere. Within a few decades, we might have not just one America -- but a half a dozen great nation equivalents.

ShalomFreedman  12/10/2011 03:10 PM Report

Niall Ferguson is one of the intellectual giants of our age. It was wise of Charlie Rose to realize that one half hour speaking to him was not enough.

It is however of course disheartening to hear his forecast of relative Western and especially American decline. This is because it does not come with a forecast of the extension of Western values to the rest of the world. One of his key elements in speaking about the rise of the West is scientific inquiry. Is there at the moment any real sign that scientific work at the highest level is being done on a grand scale anywhere ( Except perhaps for Japan) outside the West?

There is much more to comment on in Ferguson's interview. It is not that 'amen' should be said to all his insights. But he does deserve real attention, thought and respect and certainly not the belittling kinds of ignorant comments made by anonymous posters hiding behind their own ridiculous aliases.

zb1  12/10/2011 07:43 AM Report

Hard not to think of Ferguson as a giant windbag. Understanding civilization is really not all that complicated. Governments/Societies/People get vested in their existing infrastructure – physical, social, relationships, ideas, assets, values - to the point that they are slow to change, while those around them learn from what is useful and discard what is not. Actually that sounds just like Ferguson: he's stuck in his mindless/soul-less view of markets as the be all and end all to everything. First off it is fundamentally mistaken view of our world and second its a bad view of the world.

And as with most free market proponents scratch beneath the surface and you have a hypocrite. For example, Ferguson doesn't actually mind regulation just so long as its his idea of what good regulation is. Too bad in Ferguson's world measure of history and economics doesn't include the quality of life over the consumption of useless goods.

Charlie, while always trying to be the gentleman, did manage to politely challenge Ferguson a number of times and you could see Ferguson mumbling some nonsense that even Ferguson knew was made up junk.

chawlynose  12/10/2011 07:18 AM Report

Nial Ferguson is a Sensationalist, pompous opportunist, ScatterBrain. No doubt, he is only affiliated with 'names' like Oxford and Harvard for His Resume (looks impressive). But he is only here (in America) to be a 'Celebrity'. A pompous, sensationalist, ScatterBrained Celebrity, mind you.

He makes politicians look like decent human beings.

Gelles  12/10/2011 05:08 AM Report

If we do not start to immediately pay consumers lots of money we will soon be putting them in armed forces where they are paid to kill instead of being paid to patronize places that sell the products of other workers.

Gelles  12/10/2011 05:03 AM Report

Many people like Rose and guests think a planned increase in living standards and cure for deflation cannot work because only market prices have the smarts to make supply chains work. Such people have a point. Market price seems to be simpler than a planned controlled price.

But Market price as we know it has been defeated by lawful debt.

We can replace all fixed debt with claims based on equity not law. But I suggest we also build an Economic Security Agency to support the NSA. It will help Bernanke and Obama send the checks to the right consumers this time. We have the computers to do this that planners did not have in the 1930's

Gelles  12/10/2011 04:52 AM Report

Niall Ferguson, Robert Rubin, Gillian Tett and Charlie Rose are looking at Europe's banks and sovereign debt and wondering if some plan can emerge to prevent default by banks and national treasuries in all the nations using the euro -- which is threatened by weakness in Greece, Spain and Italy.

If defaults begin, because Germany, France and America cannot pony up the money and/or guarantees to convince global investors not to start runs on banks and dumping euro denominated debt and bonds issued by weak EU national treasuries, then world trade, employment and production may suffer a prolonged depression with social and military results not unlike what we experienced in the 1930's

The new BRIC markets may not prevent a spreading global recession/depression. It may be up to Ben Bernanke and Barack Obama to prevent a drift or race to an arms race followed, possibly, by a very short WW III.

Ferguson, Rubin, Rose and Tett, may not have said all the above. They may have an idea that an arms race is not the way to end a deficit in demand. But it certainly is one way. It worked in WW II and in the Cold War.

An anti-poverty peace race would be better. Economically they are practically the same. In both you produce from a list of requirements -- and you make monetized demand equal physical supply.

Bernanke seems to be the only human being on earth, aside from money cranks, who knows how to break the back of DEFLATION and depression.

REMant, below, mentions over-production and under-consumption. Under-consumption is easily cured by checks sent by mail to consumers. They can be called tax-refunds.

Over-production needs first to be corrected as a measure: if it measures an excess compared to a nation with low living standards, such nation must first be brought up to standard. After that, economic output of necessities can level off with no harm done.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  12/10/2011 03:59 AM Report

Charlie, Niall has been on many, many shows: NPR, TEDGLOBAL, The Colbert Report . . .

When you have him back please do something different and invite Jared Diamond too.

I know Niall says it is institutions/killer apps over "Guns, Germs, and Steel" but you don't get the killer apps without the right guns, germs and steel.

Niall talks about North and South Korea and East and West Germany as examples of why it is institutions and not so much geography. I would love to hear Jared's take and have them both on a panel.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  12/10/2011 03:52 AM Report

Niall gives us the "Word Ethic" as a play off one of his killer apps.

Yes Luther wanted people to read (because of the three Cs--Catholic Church Corruption) but how many were taught how to read and where did they get books? Even today with almost everyone having the skill of reading, and information everywhere, is there really a "Word Ethic"?

As to his work ethic killer app, that is why we bought slaves.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  12/10/2011 03:40 AM Report

Charlie, Niall mentions that Chinese men work in Zambia because they can earn three times the wages and then can take their riches back home and get one of the few Chinese women available.

China and Africa--I think we need a show about the labor side, including prison labor.

SharkswithfrikingLazers  12/10/2011 03:34 AM Report

Yes Charlie, the China Factor. I heard the disbelief in your voice when Niall said China would surpass us in five years. This would mean the next President would be the last to sit over the largest economy.

However, "the IMF added that it prefers to compare economies using market exchange rates, and that under this comparison the U.S. “is currently 130% bigger than China, and will still be 70% larger by 2016.”

So it depends upon how you frame it.

More: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/imf-bombshell-age-of-america-about-to-end-2011-04-25?pagenumber=1

jcsunya  12/10/2011 02:42 AM Report

Oh Charlie, I have watched your program with great interest since its inception, and what I noticed 20 years ago seems to be only more true today. Your interviewing style is composed of a double-edged sword in its conversational tone. One one hand, we get a deeply authentic and thoughtful interaction. But, on the other, we get you stepping on the interviewee's thoughts and words before they can complete a thought. Stop interrupting so much, and let them answer one of your qiestions beforew you sake them three or four variations of that same question. You are great, but, like a loved one in the family, you are also a great pain! I think you must have felt too rushed for time in this particular interaction. I hop Niall can come back, and that you can listen a little more before you go into monologue.

Gregman2  12/09/2011 07:30 PM Report

OWS is not about Western Civ. It's about a failure of modern Capitalism (and FDR's band-aids). China has no clear advantage with its market socialism other than that they have little stalemates in the decision-making process.

tabs  12/09/2011 03:49 PM Report

So what has Western Civilization come to, but the OWS movement. One thinks that the OWS shouldn't have occupied the cold, dreary, cement canyons of Manhattan, but stormed the beaches of Southern California. Taking and occupying New Port, Huntington, Redondo, Malibu and Zuma Beaches. At least there they could have caught a few rays and worked on their tans.

OLAN  12/09/2011 02:25 PM Report

The killer apps are Christianity, e.g. the fruits of the Holy Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, self-control, chastity.

Christians may not work. Some would sell drugs for mammon. But Christianity does. Christians have both. It depends on their free will.

How do you explain some eastern country westernize, become aggressive and got the atomic bomb? Did they learn the wrong thing? Or did they not have enough time to learn the right thing? Or they have learned everything else but the killer apps?

Neither did Hitler have the killer apps either. Neither did Marx.

How do we explain we have to deal with some religion as if we were dealing with some decease?

For world empire, e.g. Britain, they have ruled the world for 500 years. They have time to learn and apply with their killer apps, Christianity. Their killer apps still live on, maybe in a different face, but nonetheless, live on. And I of a different face hope it lives on because it is good for humanity and for everyone else. Thank you, Christianity. Thank you, Britain.

REMant  12/09/2011 12:54 PM Report

I guess what I want to say about all Whig history is that it is "compensation," not far different from giving out prizes for participation. It is primitivist in that it always assumes something inherently golden was lost, but through no fault of one's own. It yearns for improvement, which seemingly to boost its own ego, it projects on others, like a drill sergeant barking at recruits. Freud had his pulse on this, probably because it was so prevalent in his time.

REMant  12/09/2011 12:22 PM Report

Prof Ferguson certainly likes to produce what historians call big history. Years ago the Durants toiled on these things, and long before them Gibbon, Weber and Spengler, and another Ferguson. In the 1960's there was William McNeill's The Rise of the West. Civilization was the title used a generation ago by Kenneth Clark for a book and TV series. It doesn't sound like this one has much in common with it, except perhaps in its parochialism, and, of course, the TV series. Most recently there was Jared Diamond's thesis, which absolved natives of any complicity in their fate by making it a mere matter of the absence of materials. But in general historians eschew things of this sort, tho, of course, a great many of them work within such a paradigm. I am not sure why Harvard hired Mr Ferguson, or rather perhaps I'm afraid to say I think I do. This book, he has said, was written for young ppl, tho British young ppl in particular, in association with the attempt to remodel British textbooks.

But what is curious about the idea of the West is that it was created not so much by us, but by those "rest" in the heady days of post-war independence and the rise of Communist guerrilla movements. True there was a lot of talk of not only American but also British "exceptionalism" before that, but except for Ms Thatcher and Ronald Reagan that pretty much vanished more than a generation ago, and what is left, is in fact Left, and what is peculiar is that it still sounds so much like the real McCoy. It makes one wonder if in fact to begin with the idea was not so much Tory as Whig, (or the socialists, fascists) and our current crusaders are not just as hypocritical as Mandeville portrayed them several centuries ago. It brings to mind as well the Progressive's desire to save the children, muscular Christianity, Boy Scouts, Nazi youth and various similar Communist versions.

Personally, I have always had the impression that aside perhaps from London, Paris, Amsterdam and a few other such seats of empire, 150-200 years ago, ppl looked far less down their noses at "the rest," than some of "the rest" looked down their noses at the West, and IMHO not without reason. I think the reason for this is that before widespread banking the world was far more equal. The difference was not manufacturing or science or work ethic as Ferguson opines as much as credit which inflated their value over the raw materials needed to sustain them, and created the phenomena of overproduction and underconsumption.

Without this there ought to be no real reason for "poor countries" needing a bailout, and I can't buy the argument that therefore the Eurozone needs greater fiscal unity. Devaluing your currency is the last thing a developing country should do. It certainly doesn't fall within the realm of "rule-of-law." And I can't imagine what he thinks Adam Smith may have had to do with any of this.