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3antardude 11/20/2011 03:28 PM Report
easy talk drastic consequences if we go to war with Iran, time after time we make the same mistake
ShalomFreedman 11/17/2011 10:48 PM Report
I would like to correct my earlier comment. I said that Barak did not make 'headline grabbing comments'. But in fact one statement of his did make headlines. I suspect it is one he would not have wanted to. It is the one in which he says he understands how Iran surrounded by nuclear powers would want to be a nuclear power itself. This seeming 'understanding' of Iran was of course in direction contradiction to his main message i.e. Iran as nuclear power would constitute grave danger to the world. This is yet another case of how very smart people cannot control what others make of their words, and how the messages which comes across is not necessarily the one one intends to.
BENEZRAA 11/17/2011 04:58 PM Report
"OCCUPY" WALL STREET: UNDERSTANDING THE DELIBERATE PROPAGANDA APPLICATION OF THE TERM "OCCUPY" IN THE CONTEXT OF AMERICAN POLITICS
Extremes of Right and Left meet on the common grounds of dogmatic hatred of Jews and of dogmatic blame of Jews for the national and international financial crises in the world.
There are many well-intended participants in the "occupy" Wall Street "movement", participants who raise their voices in legitimate rage at corrupt, systemic, economic unfairness; yet, the more naive participants are unaware that there are forces with other agendas that use them for purposes beyond the mom and apple pie issues of hunger, homelessness, joblessness, and deficiencies of affordable medical care.
By using the word "occupation", and by singling out the prominent Jews in finance and in government (as do extreme right wingers), this "movement" pounds the word "occupation" into our domestic American brains; and the propaganda intent of this is to develop a subliminal association between the negativity that most people feel towards the "occupy" Wall Street "movement" and the rhetorical negativity against so-called "Israeli Occupation" and of the Jewish People.
The further propaganda intent is that this subliminal disquiet in the American Mind will develop into a conscious disquiet (irrational of course) against "Israeli Occupation"; ergo the goal is to bring about a change in American opinion and policy against the existential rights of Israel.
No one likes to be subject to "occupation". The "occupy" Wall Street "movement" seeks to cause Americans to feel that they are themselves suffering under the "occupation" of "Jewish Bankers", who -- by bigoted definition -- are "foreigners" at best and "instruments of the devil" at worst. If Americans can be brought to feel that they are suffering under Jewish "occupation" (and therefore under Israeli "occupation), then Americans can be brought to identify with "Palestinians", forming a bond against a common [Jewish] "enemy".
We would all be wise to see through this "movement" and to distinguish it from any sincere efforts to ameliorate the all too real economic inequalities that face America and the larger world.
BENEZRAA 11/17/2011 04:12 PM Report
RE: "ANOTHER ISRAELI RACIST" - A RESPONSE IN SATIRE
If only the Israeli "racists" would back off, there would be peace overnight in the Middle East and throughout Africa and Asia. It is all the fault of "racist" Jews. There are no Arab or Persian or Muslim terrorists, even though they murder women, children, the elderly, and anyone else including their own brethren, because they do it with love in their hearts. This love is so great that "non-racist" Israelis (do any exist?) pray every day that such acts as homicide/suicide bombings take place, and such acts as the firings of missiles at Israeli villages, because they know that these are gifts of love and welcome from Arab Muslims. How much better life will be for "non-racist" Israelis under one new Arab State! And as for the "racist" Israelis (virtually all Israelis of course): Praise Allah! "Racist Israelis" will soon be sending bubbles of air up from the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea and they will be pickling in the Dead Sea! True love! True peace!
ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE
It was Ehud Barak, who quite openly expressed his appreciation of the pragmatic reasons by which Iran may consider it wise to develop nuclear weapons. Barak made it quite clear that it was the present regime of the Mullahs and Ahmadinijad that pose the obvious and regime-proclaimed threat of annihilation to Israel. As to alleged acts of war against the present Iranian regime by Israel, be those acts real and provable or not, this is not a one-sided thing; Iran has waged war against Israel, and Iran's forces have been Hamas, Hezbollah, and Syria; and Iran has supplied support and weapons to these forces.
Anna4 11/17/2011 11:57 AM Report
Barak “settlements are not a problem” “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map” “we are building on Jewish land in E Jerusalem” The possibility for a two state solution seems more and more less likely when you listen to this interview. He is another Israeli racist asking “what would you do if your family was attacked” Incapable of applying that same standard to the Palestinians.
:48
Within the first minute Barak completely undermines the former head of the IAEA El Baradei saying that he had not told the “truth” about Iran.
Barak moves into how all countries around the world should agree to isolate Iran’s banking system. That is not happening
1:47
Move into nuclear weapons nations and Charlie nails Barak down on Israel having nuclear weapons and why it would be understandable in many ways that Iran would want nuclear weapons. Although Charlie does not go as far as talking about how Israel threatens to attack Iran almost every day.
Barak ” India nuclear weapons, Pakistan nuclear weapons, Chinese nuclear weapons, South Korea, Russia”
3:04
Charlie “Israel” has nuclear weapons. Refuses to sign the NPT
This part of the conversation is totally based on assuming that Iran has a nuclear weapons program.
10:00
If Israel pre-emptively attacks Iran (although according to Seymour Hersh Israel has had forces on the ground in Iran for quite some time) And Israel has all ready attacked Iran via Stuxnet. An act of war
Rose “what happens on day 2? “Will the middle east go up in flames”
16;36
Barak states that the thing that Hamas and Iran have in common is that they both want “Israel to dissapear” Charlie does not challenge.
We know that Professor Juan Cole debunked the mistranslated and often repeated by the Iraq/Iran warmongers “Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map”
Prof Cole
link to juancole.com
The phrase he then used as I read it is “The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).”
Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope– that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah’s government.
Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that “Israel must be wiped off the map” with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time.
22:16: Rose ask Barak “was the invasion of the Gaza appropriate” Barak does not answer at all. Charlie allows him to get away with it
24:48:
Barak “when the Palestinians tell you that Israeli’s are building in the settlements, it is propaganda”
Rose: Wait, wait. “Your not building in E Jerusalem” Sure wish Charlie would have mentioned the illegal Israeli settlements by name.
Then Barak goes into Jerusalem is the Jewish capital and we are only building on Jewish land and empty land.
Huge huge lie! What a liar Barak is
link to haaretz.com
“The World Likud movement held a cornerstone-laying ceremony yesterday for the expansion of the neighborhood of Nof Zion, despite – or possibly because of – American pressure against building in East Jerusalem. The Jewish settlement is in the middle of the Arab village of Jabal Mukkaber. Meanwhile, the Jerusalem municipality razed two Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem yesterday.”
When you listen to interviews like this the one state solution seems to be the only solution.
ShalomFreedman 11/17/2011 01:49 AM Report
Despite his difficulties with the English language Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak made a very fair, responsible and accurate presentation of Israel's situation. He was balanced and nuanced, and refused to make bombastic headline-grabbing statements. When Charlie Rose tried to lead him into criticizing Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu he simply outlined the reasons for the Prime Minister's position. When requested to tell us what the results of a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities would be he politely declined to speculate.He at the outset explained clearly why a nuclear Iran is a global danger. He explained the problems with the Palestinians including the role Hamas plays in preventing any real Peace negotiations. He too presented the facts in regard to the whole mistaken claim that it is 'settlements' which prevent peace negotiations. He also showed caution and perspective in regard to the current uprisings in the Arab world. He explained clearly the parameters for a two- state solution. He also made not surprisingly a strong defense of the Obama Administration's relation to Israel. He here emphasized the positive.
Harryj 11/16/2011 10:58 PM Report
Who thought of this Nation State idea anyways? The British? Maybe they should solve this problem.
Harryj 11/16/2011 10:48 PM Report
A thousand years from now, i bet the palestinans and israelis will probably be happily crossbreeding.
Harryj 11/16/2011 10:33 PM Report
Ehud says"if it walks like a duck.....its probably a duck", i think Netanyahu used "close but no cigar", they try so hard on the sales pitch.
BENEZRAA 11/16/2011 09:44 PM Report
WHAT GIVES U.N.E.S.C.O. AUTHORITY TO GRANT STATEHOOD TO THE NON-STATE OF PALESTINE?
(1) Even if the UNSC were to grant Statehood to an Arab "State of Palestine", it is premature for UNESCO to have granted full UNESCO membership status to the PAL.
(2) UN regulations and UNESCO regulations should already exist by which to nullify or reverse the existing UNESCO decision to grant full UNESCO status to the PAL.
(3) If neither UNESCO nor the UNGA nor the UNSC fail to reverse or nullify the existing UNESCO decision granting full status to the PAL at UNESCO, then the ICJ exists as a proper venue for Israel and other nations to grieve the existing inappropriate and unfortunate decision of UNESCO.
What a shame it is that UNESCO -- the UN body having the specific mission to preserve the historical heritage of unique peoples, to advance the education of all peoples, and to further the scientific and technological advancement of all peoples -- should be overtaken and corrupted by forces devoted to the hatred and annihilation of such as the Jewish People, and to eliminating all trace of Jews and Israel -- past, present, and future.
BENEZRAA 11/16/2011 09:28 PM Report
RE: "a land for the exclusive use of one people with full rights while those who once lived there are exiled to a "demilitarized area" where every aspect of their lives will be subject to the approval of those who dispossessed them. Could anything be further from "liberty and justice for all"?" THE PRINCIPLE IS SPOT ON; THE APPLICATION IS SPOT OFF.
By principle as stated, China should cease it's occupations of Tibet, Siankyang, and Kashmir; Muslims should cease their occupations of East Asia and Indonesia; and the Arabs should cease their occupations of Lebanon, of Israel, and of much of Africa.
Nancy_ 11/16/2011 06:52 PM Report
Clif: was every aspect of West Germans' lives "subject to the approval" of the US because American soldiers were stationed there to make sure Germany doesn't start a third world war? The Palestinians have an uninterrupted history of war crimes, from lynching their Jewish neighbors well before israel was established, through blowing up teenagers, the elderly, and the poor on public buses, to specifically targeting civilians with their missiles. Israelis have every reason to demand a demilitarized Palestinian state.
Regarding the dispossession: there were 275,000 people total in Palestine in 1800. Judaism back then was an ethnic and religious designation. But Muslims living in Palestine also didn't have a national identity. Few people around the world did. Things change. Two empires went, came, and went again. Whole nations in Europe and elsewhere were formed, dismantled and rearranged. Millions upon millions of people relocated -- by will or by necessity. Several genocides and wars later, it is what it is. Will you go knock on a door in your ancestors' village (I'm guessing) somewhere in Europe and demand your house back? You can choose to find a solution or you can sanctify violence, which is what many of the pro-Palestine voices around the globe -- and many of the voices within Palestine do.
Clif 11/16/2011 05:09 PM Report
a land for the exclusive use of one people with full rights while those who once lived there are exiled to a "demilitarized area" where every aspect of their lives will be subject to the approval of those who dispossessed them. Could anything be further from "liberty and justice for all"? Mr. Barak considers sharing the land and living with Palestinians as equals a terrible prospect. In America, the terrible injustice of the ejection of native-Americans has at least ended in their having the same rights as any other citizen. The Palestinians have nothing.
john_q_public 11/16/2011 02:55 PM Report
Jesus, Joseph,and Mary, When are you going to stop interrupting your guests Charlie? For God's sake, let them speak. It is so frustrating when you interrupt them. I cringe just waiting for you to interrupt. It's maddening.
Please, knock it off!
REMant 11/16/2011 12:37 PM Report
The IAEA report info is some eight years old and I doubt came as a surprise to anyone except the public at large.
A cynical sort would suppose the Israelis had decided to use the situation in Syria as a pretense to attack Iran preemptively, probably feeling that since Assad seems a goner, once Sunnis take over the opportunity would be lost. It would at a minimum muddle public opinion, in the way Sadaam was linked to al-Qaeda. In this, of course, the US, both administration and Republican neocons, would appear complicit, since it would provide a means to thumb their noses at China and Russia, helping ensure the president's re-election and a tea party defeat. The Wash Post, Wall St Journal and NY Times editorial boards, in any case, must be ecstatic, and I imagine it resonates with the Gulf potentates.
As Barak intimated the idea is that instead of a balance of power, the world must be governed by force or brainwashed by benevolent globalizers, of which Israel would have us believe it is one. It is the theory of just war, proclaimed by our president, and before that such generous ppl as Spanish colonialists, Papal inquisitors, and Stalinists.
The Jordan River is the boundary with Jordan, which means that it is on the other side of a potential Palestinian state, on its "west bank." Mr Barak may think that's defensible, but I think most everyone else thinks it's indefensible. Israel keeps reminding us how tiny it is. Perhaps we should indeed keep that more in mind.