Charlie Rose

ukash  04/15/2012 10:26 AM Report

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vongleichent  02/05/2012 09:23 AM Report

I would really love to see Ray Dalio a lot more on CR.

CDSpen  11/01/2011 02:28 PM Report

This was one of my favorite CR interviews. Very informative, explaining de-leveraging in a way that I have yet to see in other interviews, including on CR.

I am so respectful of Mr. Dalio's open-minded approach to thinking and problem-solving -- get egos out of the dialogue and listen; come to an understanding of basics of "the machine"; brainstorm for the most intelligent solutions, knowing we are all in this together. He's so right that it gave me goosebumps. This will be a test of humanity's intellectual capacity. Too bad his pessimism about humanity's ability to rise to the intellectual challenge also rings true with me. But interviews that suggest these concepts might accelerate the learning curve in time to help.

Mr. Dalio hit the nail right on the head when he talked about insisting that his donations/resources go to organizations that will make EFFICIENT use of funds. Efficiency is when you invest in what pays back exponentially, such as education or world health -- think Bill Gates. But, IMHO, efficiency in investment also necessitates making sure the endeavor is (to the extent possible) corruption-proof and exploitation proof. (And I bet Mr. Dalio agrees.)

??When integrity reaches an inflection point, we will have taken a giant step toward becoming a society possessing a “higher consciousness” that just might save the world. Sometimes I think that this is the unified message that the Occupy Wall Street movement is groping for.

CDSpen  11/01/2011 01:57 PM Report

Sorry I clicked on "report" below someone's comment. (A comment I totally agreed with!) I meant to look for more of what was being said, but found that this button was meant to report that someone had mis-used the comment field. Please disregard with my apologies.

JohnGelles  10/26/2011 06:19 PM Report

I cannot agree that a hedge fund with pension funds as buyers of the ideas that hedge funds improvise -- to make a great deal of commission income (which is taxed as capital gain) -- is no more a "SURE THING" than any other job you can create out of guts and know-how.

Many of your friends and neighbors, in law, medicine, banking, insurance, even agriculture or oil, make a good living most of their lives. None have a sure thing. But none are screwed over like the average person who works for an employer.

So what?

What was the purpose we had to listen to the CR Show hoping to hear liquid wisdom that might bring sanity to our life? Were we seeking to be entertained or in search of a magic bullet we could tell ourselves was the answer to casino capitalism in the hands of lawyers, lobbyists and idiots in elective office?

After Dalio I listened to Amy Goodman, Chris Hedges, Walter Isaacson, Charlie Rose, the ghost of Steve Jobs, and the inner thoughts me myself. I was the only one in touch with jobs for people, Apple's future headquarters (I'm imagining something very good), and imagining, too, money reform that will avoid WW III and neo-feudalism triumphant.

Ray Kurzweil remains optimistic that human intelligence among the real leaders in global technological progress will soon create machine intelligence to finesse the current problem of excessive envy among our corporate giants and political contestants.

Fraternal suicide at the top, as happened in WW I,is always possible: as is collision with a traveler in space big enough to make it curtains for us all. But these are not futures to be wished for.

Rather wish for government to admit it has the power and know-how to buy solutions to all economic want. It was done in WW II -- and can be done again tomorrow.

I'm sorry to say I'm waiting to receive my Kindle Fire to buy and read Steve Jobs by Walter I. But the weight of good books on Kindle is so small, compared with paper copies, I'm forced to make that choice until I find it may be a mistake.

Dragon talk to text is also on my mind. Please someone who makes it work tell us some detail.

AndyK  10/26/2011 04:40 PM Report

Dalio has some serious gaps in his thinking. First, his breakdown into "two worlds" is crafted (I think intentionally) to leave no room for political solutions to the apparent economic crisis. Dalio says "this is what it is, accept that you live in a 'developed,' debt-rich nation." OF COURSE a hedge fund manager would have this opinion, not because it is true (it isn't) but because preaching the inevitability of this system ensures that his firm continues to be directly subsidized by favorable government policies.

Second, his philosophy of management / people is skewed. At the end of the day, people make decisions that they justify, justify, justify and BAM--- they run out of rational explanation. "Rationality" does not run all the way down. He should read some Hume and lay off the Ayn Rand. This has practical implications for his business model that I won't get into in this short rejoinder. Similarly, I'm confident that his business operates like any other business, although it may claim transparency and flatness. He's at the top and I'm willing to bet that when he wants something done he will entertain your idea (to a point) and then, by fiat, decide on a course of action. No business can operate in a rational manner---- it takes an irrational END to discourse to force action.

As an aside, Charlie Rose would have done well to ask the all-important question: "does money make money?" Hedge funds, particularly big hedge funds, make money simply by virtue of their existence. When Soros broke the Bank of England there was no "risk" involved, in a sense. It was a guaranteed wealth-transfer. Bridgewater, AS AN ACTOR IN THE MARKET, WILL of cosmological necessity make money since it is so big that its actions self-validate.

The only possible risk to Bridgewater is political risk--- that is, will governments and nations reappropriate their own wealth.

All these points, plus his eye-twitching and manic attempts at self-control, suggest that he is, in fact, the Randian, Freemasonic type, beholden to fake ideas about rationality and insanely seeking to find "rational" post hoc justification for their wealth.

Tweak your machine all you want, Mr. Dalio, but you're in a privileged position through serendipity: you are one of the guys who got in at that unique point in history when wealth consolidated enough to become infinitely self-perpetuating.

CRRegular  10/25/2011 04:18 PM Report

I just wanted to thank the CR producers for inviting Ray Dalio on the program. He gave one of the most cogent and insightful analyses of the current economic crisis that I've heard anywhere, including on the Charlie Rose show. Although I don't agree with everything he had to say (for example, I wish CR had pressed Dalio a little more on specifics, like entitlement reform, which Dalio on hinted at), Dalio's global perspective helps to shine a new light on where we are and where we have to go. I'd love to see him on a panel of economists and business decision makers some time.

JohnGelles  10/24/2011 03:08 PM Report

A return to WWII economics, based on production not on debt, is long overdue. Opponents point out that war time unity makes decision by executive order far more likely than in "normal" times.

That may be true. But the risk of national decline is demonstrably high today. Our government owes us its recognition of this fact. Krugman on the Charlie Rose Show is the voice closest to my own. Niall Ferguson may have a contrary view that supports austerity now and Asian ascendancy later. Not that he hates America, but that he assumes the die is cast and Chimerica will fade as East beats West because it has more people to study engineering.

doothedew is too kind. We still have all the know-how to escape from non-performing debt. Our street demonstrations can easily evolve into political agendas that convince us all to raise employment and supply to meet the demands of higher wages and the determination to in the midst of plenty to solve the riddle of want.

Imagine if we had at our command a fleet of rescue planes to bring relief to Turkey one day and water to quench wild fires the next.

Ours is great nation engaged at a great historical moment in nano-tech, bio-tech and info-tech revolutions. We have the means and motive to improve law and economics to implement economic democracy and make good the Second Bill of Rights.

Many will say it's impossible. More must do the job for their neighbors' sake and their own. We ended slavery once. Debt-founded impotence is ready to yield the common sense of the common people. All we need is a nudge from people to your left and right. Doothedew and I are holding our breath for more here and now to contribute.

Contribute a thought to Rose and Delilo. They want to know what to do. If it's more than we've already mentioned, just add it to your endorsement our plan to follow the Preamble as others have before us:

http://ustaxreform.us/.preamble.htm

http://ustaxreform.us/.crs.htm

doothedew  10/24/2011 09:55 AM Report

John Gelles, You Are the Man.

The only problem is, the young wipper-snappers running the show now, have their heads Too far up their asses to learn anything from someone with the likes of you. Even what you say would fly over the head of the likes of a one, tom brokaw, who trys to commercialize his airheaded anchorman, admiration of your 'greatest generation', would be rendered to a gaseous brain freeze if confronted with the 'global challenges' (to use his words) that "plague", "our times" .

JohnGelles  10/24/2011 09:08 AM Report

The problem facing advanced industrial nations on Earth is to change from their vulnerable position of basing wealth on future "profit" to basing wealth on future production of the immense list they have of necessary items of "supply".

To be sure the list changes every day and is not published anywhere. But it exists and can be recorded for systematic management. The invisible hand that is relied on instead of an effective list (and system) does not exist. Reliance on a promise of self-correction that does not exist, leaves nations (and economic empires) on their way to slow or fast decline.

Today's rules, that call for profit on investment and secure debt as backing for money, have left banks and businesses with too little room for adding people to their payrolls and production to their plans.

Assuming our Chief Executive, Barack Obama, had the nerve to order his departments to contract for our greatest unmet needs in energy, health, education, infrastructure, affordable housing, etc., and ordered the Treasury to work with the Federal Reserve to be sure to have the money to pay its bills on time, we would be back where we were in 1944, where production was the goal and profit was set at cost plus a necessary percentage of cost.

The President would face impeachment. But that would be a small risk to take. Before impeachment proceedings had any effect, the President could initiate reform of regulations, taxes and government communications to put into plain English all that must be there if the general public is to understand what he is doing.

Thereafter, economic things would never be the same. The power of debt to "imprison" production would be crushed. We would be well on the way to energy independence -- or leaders standing in the way would be, like Sewell Avery was in 1944, removed from authority to wreck the nation.

The Army would back the President and the President would face an impeachment trial if Congress did not ratify his actions.

Assuming our current President does not want to go this far, he can still make all the changes called for by current events, by talking sense to the American people,

doothedew  10/24/2011 08:18 AM Report

excuse me, jose; I 'pruned' My EGO last night.

doothedew  10/24/2011 08:11 AM Report

... but the problem with 'Professors' is sometimes they are so focused and specialized that they miss things and are lose in interpretation, similar but not the same as bureaucrats, who are cut-off and padded from the reality; similar but different than the rich, who know nothing different; they don't comprehend some of the common sense intangibles associated with the reality of money and commerce that people who have suffered and struggled bring to the Value instilled within the currency. It's a real problem of society and human nature.

Why not eliminate, the organized crime aspect of 'government'? Why not level the political playing field of both parties, so more people have a say and more of a real choice?! That's all 'Buddy Roemer' wants to change. The time is Right for this. If not done now, then when?! It'll get worse, and probably bloody

josephtbrophy  10/24/2011 08:09 AM Report

CR at its best; thank you CR and Ray Dalio

I had to watch the discussion for a second and third time in the wee hours of the morn to make sure I watched the same program as many of commentators below professed to have watched.

did anyone notice Dalio's embouchure? a mark of achievement! I looked him up on Wiki and sure'nuf his dad was a jazz musician.

an embouchure takes lots of practice and patience and feedback; identifying what works and what doesn't work. Surely Dalio brings this practical management mindset to Bridgewater everyday. No wonder Bridgewater is he envy of Wall Street.

I seems to me that Dalio is a highly focused simple man with a simple vision. he avoids the clutter of egos and ideological boxes and snares.

I would trust Dalio in a heartbeat over Summers and Klugman (sic).

I would recommend that CR entertain a group session with Dalio and the commentators below with the hope that these learned and opinionated commentators might have an opportunity to have their egos pruned.

doothedew  10/24/2011 07:37 AM Report

More Good Points Mr. JG. If the economy (reality) works like a machine as this very successful HedgeFundManager-WorldManipulatorVirtuoso proclaims. Then, like a pump/organ/carburetor in a machine, the economy has to be 'primed'. And then once the machine is up and running, the 'priming' Must cease so it (the machine/economy) can function on it's own.

According to Krugman and Summers (who I assume have crunched the numbers and done the calculating, have likened the 'stimulus' as a spit in the bucket that wouldn't motivate a jackass to fart. And quite frankly, I would Trust those two 'Engineers' of the machine/economy then any of the Bozo 'politicians' (and their '$ugarDaddy make-up artist$) who are basicly just the Clowns of the "street theater" that you speak of.

I support the faction of the WSO that wants real and true Capitalism; and that won't happen until people start Listening AND Understanding what 'Buddy Roemer' is Saying.

JohnGelles  10/24/2011 06:23 AM Report

Important Correction:

The current political campaign in America, and street theater associated with inequality, ought to focus on immediate employment, income and homestead protection, as well as, total repeal of income tax and ridiculous laws and regulations.

The original sentence was stupid.

JohnGelles  10/24/2011 06:10 AM Report

By chance on Sunday night (23 October on PBS in Southern California,) I was listening to Booknotes Lamb/Friedman interview in 1994. Milton Friedman was explaining his being an admirer of Hayek and The Road to Serfdom.

You may watch the whole program at

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/61272-1

In that program Friedman explains his own belief in the negative income tax as the best way to move money to where it is needed to prevent poverty, and by implication, prevent the kind of jobs and mortgage crises we have at this very moment.

Friedman's main beef with government is its record of failure to prevent legalese and rigidity (in lawmaking and administration of its programs and projects) that an ideal free enterprise system is often able to achieve.

In this he is right, in my opinion.

My main beef with Friedman, and his notion of the invisible hand "system" for preventing gross error outside of government and inside markets as they have evolved.

There is no invisible hand. There is only deductive reasoning from a metaphysical belief in ideal markets.

Galbraith, Keynes, Lerner and Gelles (this last person no more than an ordinary observer of our times,) limit deductive reasoning to conclusions that can be confirmed by experience via inductive scientific reasoning.

We four confirm the excessive legalese and rigidity often found in government products and operations -- but see these offenses as inherent in Republican government as well as in Democratic government.

The issue is therefore results, not more than that.

Capitalism has come a cropper because its money supply is subject to contraction just when expansion is required. This is easily fixed with output-based money created to supplement debt-based money for as long as necessary.

The risk of hyperinflation, inherent in monetary schemes, must be met by the intention to dry-up any flood of money via forced savings, taxes or similar method, until motivation returns to any economy, and difficult work is accomplished as effectively as it would be if life itself depends on it: because life does depend on the output of work -- not on the ownership of currency or balances in books of account.

The negative income tax, which is the same as a positive minimum income, remains a sensible plan to back up other schemes to overcome business contraction and prevent the disasters we expect from deflation.

Milton Friedman and I have often disagreed. I once wrote him a letter at the Hoover institute -- when Gorbachev first came to power. I suggested the West could trust this man. He disagreed strongly with me. I threw his reply in the garbage. How foolish of me. His note would have been worth a few dollars today. Tant pis.

The current political campaign in America, and street theater associated with inequality, ought to focus on total repeal of income tax and ridiculous laws and regulations.

In their place we can put simplified rules with sufficient opportunity to rapidly appeal adverse decision by backup authority educated and experienced in blending compromise, an open mind, risk and objectives in proper proportion to merit our trust.

JohnGelles  10/23/2011 02:19 PM Report

Paul Krugman nailed it when he said the Occupy Wall Street actions in the West, mimicking in their way the Arab Spring in North Africa, may not produce new answers -- but it has produced some common sense in ordinary people who want sufficient yet fundamental change in Crony Casino Consumer Crazy Capitalism to guarantee full employment, full supply, full demand, and maximum morality in and under the monetary system of production we have been designing from WW I until today.

In that period of time Hayek has come to symbolize fear that government acting alone (if not constrained by private property and some respect for competition) will kill democracy and Keynes has come to symbolize belief that government can finance economic growth and democratic outcomes with money when events conspire with nature and human nature to defeat our systems of production with one perfect storm or another.

At the moment crime, corruption and terrorism have surfaced because economic security has evaporated. We have failed to tenure educational, health, and scientific institutions in favor of pointless profit when well distributed wealth was what we needed.

It is not immense wealth at and near the top that is the problem. Most of it supports the system itself -- not its worst parts, but all its parts.

It is the mismatch between our potential to enrich the very bottom at the base of our gigantic pyramid and our actual delivery to that base of sufficient money to demand the full potential now in sight.

Think of what we would do if the threat to our civilization were recognized for what it is: it is real, and it will turn us all into banana republics -- when we deserve what Washington and Jefferson and millions of other great examples wished for us and all our neighbors.

Many will answer the above with the notion that money is not as short as the good ideas I say are there. They will believe supply creates its own demand. They believe government can no more manage money than it can manage law.

They have a point. We will have to add as much equity to law as we add debt-free money to debt-based money in circulation.

We will have to add savings sufficient to make misers of many born to spend. In fact the day after we recognize the need to raise demand we will still have to improve every facet of our knowledge base that fights disease, disaster, narcissism, and unbounded complexity in challenges to human happiness from sources far from law and economics.

But this sort of reason to know there is no end to history is itself no reason to stop short of goals within easy reach that our parents handed to us. Bury the stake in the skeptics heart and put us all to work with money geared to product not money chained to debt.

http://ustaxreform.us

http://ustaxreform.us/.crs.htm

100percent  10/23/2011 01:54 PM Report

I wonder, would everyone be taking shots at Ray Dalio if he were their relative? We wouldn't be proud of him? We wouldn't be saying some form of "My relative got a great education, worked his way up in finance and does extremely well for the people he invests on behalf of, oh and he tries to promote a culture at work that puts the raw truth of the matter in front of individual ego. He's one version of the American dream."? No? We'd be the one loan standout in the family saying how he has "no connection to reality" right? Give me a break. I'm an unemployed father and this guy makes more sense to me than anyone who buys into the fact that their vitriol means something and will make a difference. The way I see it he's extraordinary at what he does, I'm sure the teachers in PA and other such pensions have no problem with him, and he seems to, until otherwise proven so as that's how it works here in America, operate under the law. So what's the real problem? We don't like he makes so much money? He only makes that money if he makes money for his investors. We don't like the amount of influence that a large hedge fund can have on making and driving markets? Pressure your representatives to change legislation. We'll see then if he truly minds or not, he says he wouldn't. We don't like how out of touch he is? He seems to be in touch with anyone at his company. How in touch are you? How in touch is your boss? Are we doing everything we can to help our fellow Americans get an education or a job? It's as though no one wants to look into a mirror and see how we, yes even the 99%, me included, had some part in this crisis and now want no part in chipping in to get us out of it. Its basis is a denial for any part in this economic situation whatsoever and a desire to simply blame the government and the "one percent" and be done with it. We didn't have any problems when things were good, we were employed, over borrowing and over spending for houses and other items that if we truly were honest with ourselves we would have said "I can't afford this", but no, it was all the predatory lenders, banks and credit card companies fault, I take no responsibility whatsoever. It's an easy thing to do, not take responsibility. Why? In general terms, apathy. Roughly 71% of the voting population is registered to vote, and only about 61% voted in the 2008 and 2010 elections. Roughly 1/3rd of our voting population doesn't even want to take responsibility for who our elected representatives are! And the sad part is that the 99%, the ones who feel as though they've been taken so advantage of are the ones that aren't voting! I know it's easier to get upset, yell at someone, write a scathing blog, camp out somewhere and hold up a sign than it is to try to become as educated as possible about all the issues and then use this information to inform your vote and just maybe try to help others in your community do the same. It's hard work. I just don't see how we think we can get out of this mess without putting in that type of work, and it comes from being productive, being proactive and taking an interest in the real ways we can effect and affect change. Or we can just keep logging on to sites and throw an occasional stone at a guy like Ray Dalio, who has at the bare minimum at least engaged in the conversation. I just don't see anything in history that suggests that will achieve anything lasting or great. We might as well shoot an aircraft carrier with a bb gun.

kisho73  10/23/2011 01:27 PM Report

Re WhereAreWeNow's comments: While PBS certainly can reflect our discourse and can even help us to broaden our minds and shape our opinions, we need an accessible and inclusive platform or vehicle to put these opinions into action. OWS is "barging in" on a dialogue that has excluded the voices of the majority for far too long.

zevkirsh  10/23/2011 12:13 PM Report

this man either has parkinsons or some other diskenisia. his head is very subtly shaking and he is losing fine motor control-----

He speaks in half truths, which is at least better than when charlie rose brings on lloyd blankenfein and is ilk to apologize and cover up for their crimes on what used to be a public television show and is now a financial syndicated 'interview' program.

doothedew  10/23/2011 08:41 AM Report

... maybe the Rich people can make a Big Cake and put All the Surplus people in it, and then eat it?

I don't know, I'm just trying to give something back for the money I take.

doothedew  10/23/2011 08:38 AM Report

... but I suspect that would work as well as 'Prohibition' (thanks PBS)

doothedew  10/23/2011 08:30 AM Report

@WhereAreWeNow 10/23/2011 08:02 AM

why, we are all registered repugnantcans 'Now'. 'Now' let the dialogue of the ideologue continue.

What needs to be done with the Surplus of People in the World? To bring costs down and pay up to a 'Fair' pay; an equilibrium and constant steady temperature and moisture content in harmony with Nature; or do we pick a year in time and adopt the technology of that time, as do the Amish, or is that going back too far? Maybe if we can go back (Technology wise) to 1962.? We'll have to give up our personal computers but we won't have give up our cars (no horse and buggy) to get the technology in sync with the population so we don't have to deal with the surplus people interfering with jobs/prices/costs 'equal'ibrium of the 'Free Market'.

doothedew  10/23/2011 08:11 AM Report

WOW, JohnGelles. I just read that post/Sermon. Your Brain is firing on all cylinders today.

WhereAreWeNow  10/23/2011 08:02 AM Report

Wow, I feel like I watched a different interview than some of you. Maybe the parts when he said it was the "obligation" of his employees to challenge his thought process was part of it. I'm sorry nobody was "invited to the table", I thought PBS did that.

Oh wait, I forgot you OWS people are trying to barge in on any form of decent dialogue.

Carry on.

doothedew  10/23/2011 08:00 AM Report

... TORA! TORA! TORA!

JohnGelles  10/23/2011 07:48 AM Report

We have survived Germany's Hitler and Russia's Stalin and all the dire consequences democracy's defeat by black or red totalitarianism held in store for the human race.

Yet we are now confronted with a need to defeat our own ignorance -- as we face shortages of good water, necessary food, and safe energy, etc., and surpluses of populations, waste, hate, weapons, etc,. and ambition to dominate only slightly less than those of the defeated German and Russian empires.

Our ignorance appears to be equal to the ignorance of our partners in Europe, Asia and the rest of the world. We, as good people, want the best for this planet -- but we must overcome our own ignorance and the evil intention and power to destroy still held by bad people (whom we outnumber by a substantial margin).

We have fair intelligence to combat the bad ones. But we have weak intelligence to combat our own ignorance. That is why we need a National Economic Security Agency and a National Logistical Planning Agency to bring science and technology to our political system before it is too late.

Our legislative branch of government has been lost to the money power. The money power is leaderless and lives in a pointless state of fear of the very market mechanisms it has made its God.

We today have had experience with brains trusts; think tanks; graduate schools of military, government, and market sciences, etc.; but we still depend on the vast literature individual visionaries for ideas on what to do. That literature is not enough. It is a cloud of thought without the focusing apparatus to break the power of money and superstition to dominate the politics of the era.

Charlie Rose tries to bring focus to our thought and revenue to his enterprise. He may be the best we have. But he is certainly insufficient for the task.

The very richest on the planet are aware of the problem. The very smartest are also just as much aware. It is the solution that is out of reach. In the street we see and hear the pain of frustration that the Second Bill of Rights foresaw. The jobs, homes and material satisfactions that bundle of economic rights promises is due for payment NOW.

But with or without such outward poof of progress, we remain powerless in the face an infantile political understanding of the interface between science and narcissism -- people and the forces of nature that created them and it.

We have established profit as our master not our servant. We have elevated opulence for the few over insight for the voters whose random prejudices are our compass. We are missing vital institutions and an economy to protect them that is itself more coherent than the market or the mob.

That economy is waiting in the wings tonight.

kisho73  10/23/2011 12:50 AM Report

Dalio's obviously an expert at what he does and I congratulate him for not minding to make himself vulnerable to criticism if that means he can get the right answers. However, he's totally oblivious when it comes to the financial and social position of the everyman. Laughingly so. He wants to have a rational dialogue? We haven't been invited to the table, that's why we're protesting in the streets.

doothedew  10/22/2011 11:20 PM Report

... right into His back pocket... Which is What makes Him Right and Everybody else Wrong (including John McLaughlin)... Now, peons, who wants to play poker? With the Fastest Gun in the Wall Street.

doothedew  10/22/2011 11:12 PM Report

... The Wizard of Oz is a Kamikaze Pilot flying straight into the hearts and minds of millions (of Dollars, that is)

goldindawn  10/22/2011 09:31 PM Report

It felt great to see one of the richer men in the world, Ray Dalio in a sweat on the air with Charlie.

I felt Ray Dalio’s world view was very illuminating yet in his universe of discourse what he seems to talk about is narrowly focused in the world order of things. For example, he talks about the world from a elite citizen’s national perspective when in fact the corporate economy has no borders and operates world wide. He would not dare to mention that corporate business practice has no patriotism nor fealty to any country.

Yet, more importantly he misses the ‘message is the method’ of the OWS crowd. The dire economic circumstances of the 99% are a result of corrupt decision makers operating in the 1% vacuum with no connection to reality whatsoever. This is more a clash of values centered on “We are all in this together” ... the true “culture” which he does not seem to be able to recognize. Moreover, the morality of the masses has been shifting markedly. No wonder Ray sweats so profusely! The common suffering citizen feels ripped off from the grand scheme of things in which he has been blissfully ignorant in his complicity.

I do heartily agree with Ray that a discussion needs to be made about how things really work in the world and I am so glad that he is ready to be wrong if necessary. I wonder if growth might be an obsolete standard to measure economic success when the survival of most life systems on our planet is at stake ? I wonder if post modern capitalists view the Islamic world and it’s Sharia system based on community good will as a threat to the unrestrained growth model. My understanding of Sharia is that instead of usury, the blessings of borrowed money are passed forward to the community and culture in which business is supported.

By the way, what ever happened to the idea of good will on a business balance sheet? But really what do I know? Like Ray I’d rather be wrong that sad. Tough as that might be, at least I would be learning something.

doothedew  10/22/2011 09:28 PM Report

Hedge Funds, the New Gold... of the Old World... Order, of Disorder... Gold going up... Houses coming Down... Real Estate Agent Banker is a Clown

hari  10/22/2011 01:29 PM Report

I had to see it twice to understand why CR was not listening adequately to what Dalio was actually saying and trying to get across this fabulous discourse.

Dalio is NOT your daily part of your CR program. It's possible that CR lost a bit of his normal audience because of the intuitive intelligence of Dalio and his mental gymnastics...seems his mind is working far ahead of the problems he's trying to (re)solve.

What he said about EU debt contagion and its resolution is rihght on target. And, if you follow the Summit in Brussels, you'll notice the results will more or less reflect Dalio's perception of the real crisis in confidence in Euro Project.

NB. CR show needs more of this type of personality who cannot be boxed into an ideological framework or for lack of intellectual gumption to think outside of the box. I know it's demanding to do interviews with such intellectual

minds who're open to argument and thought process. American political scene right now is declining and falling off a precipiece!

josephtbrophy  10/22/2011 08:09 AM Report

As Dalio hints, we should WONDER whether we can suspend the laws of gravity for a bit to allow johngelles an opportunity to implement his keynesian consensus.

JohnGelles  10/22/2011 05:54 AM Report

Perhaps I should have mentioned that TAXING income, property or wealth is the REVERSE of monetizing debt.

Signed: JG http://www.ustaxreform.us/.crs.htm

JohnGelles  10/22/2011 05:40 AM Report

exterline1860 ~

Thank you for best comments of the year.

It is unfortunate that we look to economists, who know too little to find a Keynesian consensus, for solution to our current crises. We obviously need to direct cash flows to people in need and thereafter recruit and train all the labor and automation necessary to supply the goods and services such cash will demand.

To accomplish the obvious need above, we need a national economic security agency with the computing power of the NSA or more. This will allow Keynesian money to reach people in need without overflowing in ways that would otherwise raise prices far too high for prosperity to be achieved.

All the price control (even wage control and rationing) tools of WW II may also be required (i.e., in addition to a NESA).

All the above is predicated on sufficient quantitative easing to ween our economy away from debt-based money and on to output-based money.

Of course the IR Code must be replaced by simplified systems for money whose management makes taxes totally unnecessary to pay the bills of governments. That code has crippled our middle class and will cripple our national defense if it is not soon abandoned.

Occupy Wall Street (OWS) may be our best chance to protect us from conservative Hayekian Thatcherian hatred of government solutions. Government solutions are often twisted and false to our democratic ideals. But they can be reformed to defeat those who oppose the Second Bill of Rights (and those who do not even know of it).

I wrote last night on Ray Dalio on the CR Show page for Catch 22. And tonight I have just watched CR talk jobs and global economic performance with American, Turkish and Indian business people whose purpose is prosperity for all of us as well as all of "them": "they" being the rich and "us" being the rest.

I am still reading Sylvia Nasar's "Grand Pursuit [of Happiness -- via economic literature of sorts]. The emotional barriers to common sense are immense when it come to money and ideas in circulation. Money is a language all by itself; and so are economic (and business) ideas. This CR Show archive is a p--s poor place to gain knowledge. But exterline1860 is an exception. I hope he stays long enough to be a counter weight to the Austrians here who pollute the thought we need to employ all people and supply all needs.

As to Dalio being out of touch, I would modify that thought. He is in touch with our real practices that effect the price of bonds and money. If he is really betting on gold, that is important for us to know. Gold may hold value in the world I know we need that would replace debt with cash on the ordinary person's balance sheet. This sort of change in our system works well for some very rich persons in periods when the risk free rate of return approaches zero.

I believe we need to see a system that can monetize debt and do the reverse, as needed, to match supply to need and demand to supply -- and that such a new system might be something like alternating current theory compared to direct current. We need a Nicholas Tesla to explain how this fluctuation would accommodate continuous economic growth and prosperity to match our natural need to eat and drink all the time. Elon Musk is today's Nicholas Tesla.

..... Maybe before he takes off for Mars he will spend some time in Kansas City (with Wray and Forstater at the Univ. of Missouri KC) to explain to the Thomas Edison's of Austria that AC electricity and DC electricity both work well when used in their proper application.

josephtbrophy  10/22/2011 04:59 AM Report

ray dalio is a clear thinker and well organized. he could have worked harder at keeping charlie rose in synch with his think. i believe that charlie rose had difficulty staying with ray dalio. rose's reality is political ideologies; whereas dalio was establishing a framework for 'value disucssions." thank you both for a great discussion.

exeterline 1860 must have dozed off during the discussion.

OlivierFere  10/22/2011 03:27 AM Report

@exeterline1860: You clearly did not watch the interview or did not pay much attention.

exeterline1860  10/22/2011 02:50 AM Report

I'm really sorry to have to write this post, but this man seemed so confused and out of touch with what's going on in mainstream America. He seemed like he wanted to talk with people to find out, so here it is:

To solve Ray Dalio’s conundrum: Cutting expenditures by 3% and raising taxes by 3% sounds like a good idea - unless you’ve already given up 50% of your income and benefits to the rich.

Many people who had well-paying professional jobs, middle management jobs, skilled/semi-skilled industrial jobs, or low-level manufacturing jobs have lost them. Each group has lost jobs at a different rate - the lower level jobs have disappeared at the highest rate. Some, but only some, of these unemployed workers have been very lucky to find a new job as a part-time/temp worker in a retail establishment, or flipping burgers at McDonalds. Their new salaries (let’s say $17,000 - $27,000 per year) are now 30% to 50% of their prior salaries (let’s say $35,000 - $75,000 per year). Someone who used to make $75,000 considers himself damn lucky to get a job at Walmart for $27,000 because even those jobs are damn scarce.

In addition to being forced out of their jobs, they are now being told to buy their own health insurance, which costs $7,000 - $15,000 per year (depending on how many people in your family), out of their lowered salaries that border the poverty level. Of course, they can’t afford to pay for insurance on those incomes. They then find themselves in bankruptcy if anyone in the family gets sick because a trip to the emergency room can cost $5,000 to $100,000 depending on what’s wrong with you. Diagnostic radiology tests can cost $5,000 - $20,000 each. That doesn’t include secondary tests, treatment, or advice. Why bother getting medical advice in the first place if you can’t afford any semblance of treatment? I heard monitoring for a heart attack in the ER was $80,000 five years ago. Who knows what it is today. If that individual has to have a bypass, balloon, or other treatment, that cost can soar to $300,000 easily, if not more. Joint replacement, which you can go without unless there is an infection, costs $150,000 - $200,000, if uncomplicated. Dying of cancer in the hospital can cost $2,000,000.

Ray Dalio must have no idea why so many people’s homes go into foreclosure. If he can follow what is above, it should start to make some sense to him.

When people lose jobs, it’s often because the jobs went overseas. The money the company saved by doing that goes to the 1%. Employers usually don’t offer health insurance to their workers today. The money the company saves by not offering health insurance is also going to the 1%.

Young people went to college and took on massive student loan debt. Many of them are working in part-time, temp, or retail jobs. Again, they’re at McDonalds, the local bar, or a warehouse earning poverty level income. They still have to pay all that money back. They can’t marry or buy a home. The profit from all that interest on their loans is going to the 1%. The good jobs are overseas. Again, the 1% are saving money by employing foreigners instead of their own college graduates.

Every time we attempt to get policies to address the growing despair in America, the politicians reject it because they are owned by Wall Street. The public has waited years for something positive to come in their direction to stabilize their losses, but the bleeding continues and is met with massive arrogance from the GOP and their followers.

What is it that Ray Dalio doesn’t understand? Why does the 1% want the little people to give up even more than they already have to pay for the national debt? Ironically, despite their losses, the little people are even still willing to give up something like Ray’s 3% in expenditures, but the 1% won’t budge and pay 3% more in taxes. They want the little people to give up another 20% of their poverty income before they’ll contribute a dime, if they contribute anything at all. During all of this, the 1% keep trying to extract windfall after windfall from the government. Isn’t the 50% of our income and benefits that we’ve already given enough for those greedy creeps?

We are not mad because we aren’t rich. We are mad because we’re losing every bit of what we’ve built up over the years. It’s as if we’re being skinned alive. We’re losing our homes, our savings, our jobs, our healthcare, our hope. We’re not jealous, for Gods sake. We’re being forced into the gutter with the garbage by the thousands daily. For a lot of us, it’s only a matter of time before we’re homeless – really, really, really HOMELESS. People are literally sleeping the woods, their cars, the alley, etc., and going to soup kitchens for food – real people that used to be middle class wage earners.

This is why people are protesting on Wall Street and other cities across America. The 99% have already given our share. Unfortunately for Uncle Sam, what we’ve given was transferred to the 1%, not to the national treasury. We have given, and given, and given, and given, and given. We have nothing left to give, but the 1% still want more. I’m very surprised the protests haven’t escalated to riots. If the 1% doesn’t start to make gestures toward fixing the inequality, I’ll bet it does. It should make sense to Ray, except that he is apparently completely isolated from real people.

I can’t say if Ray did anything wrong, but may have to pay more taxes simply because he is rich. I am not rich, but I may not benefit from any program established to help the poor. In either case, whatever adjustments are to be made will be made on an aggregate basis. Some will win, some will lose, but most will have to pay more anyway regardless of what they get out of it.

noswalcr  10/21/2011 03:58 PM Report

If we had more Ray Dalios in the government we would be in much better financial shape than we are now. Where are these guys when we need them?

anne4444  10/21/2011 03:22 PM Report

He is a very smart man. Thank you for sharing.

REMant  10/21/2011 11:58 AM Report

Or rather I don't blame hedging for our predicament, but I do blame the funds for their part in the leveraging.

REMant  10/21/2011 11:50 AM Report

Mr Dalio seems to be one of those who has trouble putting thoughts into words. He ought to know that altho we rarely have perfect knowledge- indeed, many think we can never have perfect knowledge - we must nevertheless make decisions, for I am certain he does just that every day. It would be odd for a hedge fund manager in particular to think otherwise. Some ppl use "I feel" to describe that uncertainty, others, "I think." It is not necessarily an egotism.

Hedge funds generally look to profit from other's mistakes, esp those of misguided central banks, basically using credit to gamble on price movements, something long in abeyance after 1929. The thought is that the greater risk can be "hedged" and the result more profitable than ordinary investment, at least in the short run. There are varying ideas of the real value of this, tho I do not think they are to blame for our predicament. His fund, however, I understand has at the present time shorted the dollar and Euro and bought gold.

Nevertheless, I do, of course, agree with his basic understanding of the present situation, altho not especially with the idea that the 3rd world is entirely behind the absence of jobs, and I'm sure he didn't really mean to say that, but rather that it is because the 1st world can't easily let wages and prices fall to 3rd world levels, since our price levels reflect our indebtedness. We can either liquidate the debt in order to lower prices, which will mean many ppl will get more than a trim, or we can increase physical productivity, but we'll get nowhere by printing money.

Saving is the only real means to wealth, and attempts to effectively increase its value through fractional reserve banking, or "leveraging" generally, ultimately serves to upset the necessary balance between saving and consumption by encouraging the latter, and speculation. We have in this way been drawing on past savings for many years, and increasing talk about lower taxes is merely an indication of our increasing poverty. We are at a point where we can no longer even service the debt, and this is compounded by the loss of jobs overseas as wages and prices have risen here, made more difficult still by the fact that saving necessarily requires austerity in order to supply the means to greater productivity.

This is why classical economists call for a 100% reserve, i.e., forcing banks and other such financial institutions to either keep deposits on hand or lend only what has been deposited for the purpose of investment. Some will undoubtedly want to go only far enough to reflate what is essentially, in the absence of convertibility to some commodity, a pyramid scheme, but how successful this would be depends on the comparative value of 1st world goods and services, so that we can resume foisting some of our inflation off onto the 3rd, without putting them under as well.

Ppl interested in Mr Dalio will want to consult an article in the July 25 New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/07/25/110725fa_fact_cassidy)