Charlie Rose

richardknox  05/24/2011 05:01 AM Report

That has to be the best(sober) conversation about the current Middle East in the past year. Three different points of perspective, all extremely well spoken. Very informative,even eye opening.

JohnGelles  05/23/2011 08:59 PM Report

The second industrial revolution to create full employment and great individual wealth and security among hard working middle class Americans, as demanded by near-candidate ex-Governor Jon Huntsman, and a stable dollar to go with it, as demanded by Ralph Benko of Gold Standard 2012 on CSPAN this weekend, will require a rational trading system to accommodate skilled workers at home and among allies. No one has suggested to my knowledge anything as good as Warren Buffet's Import Certificate system.

Considering his skill and wealth, it is amazing he has not sold it to our American power structure.

When I contemplate suicide because nobody listens to me, I think of Buffet and Obama -- and how not enough Americans listen to them. If good ideas cannot be sold to good people, what chance is there for economic democracy in our time?

I have sold all of my favorite ideas from wise sources, (in these comments to you today,) to my wife and sons. It's true I had to offer bribes and tears to gain their votes. But fortunately I had these at hand and eye.

What will it take to convince this CR bunch of crackpots to get serious about the future we leave to posterity? NOT insults -- you say. But they are the hardest currency ever offered for free on the WEB. Take a bag full -- and go on about your ignorant ways.

JohnGelles  05/23/2011 06:09 PM Report

Debt and deficit hawks and gold standard NOW promoters are looking for a more stable dollar -- especially if we raise the money supply to eliminate the deficit in demand.

One way to try to do this is to use a form of the gold standard that is flexible enough to avoid depressions and recessions.

A better way to do the job is with inflation protected cash savings of debt-free fiat money which will be saved by workers until store shelves are full and will not be taxed away from private investors who create private capital pools to make full employment government financial strategies possible. These private pools will however always be able to rest as government capital spends the high risk money for exploitation of near space and deep water rare deposits,etc.

We must be prepared to spend astronomical sums to clean the environment and keep it clean, and achieve peace and protect it against sick and evil-doers for as long we have no rational alternative to treating evil as an affliction. The time to treat it as early as possible, the way to treat it is the way you would like to be treated if you were evil too -- but wished you could be cured.

JohnGelles  05/23/2011 05:48 PM Report

The issues in the Middle East are extreme versions of the issues here at home:

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a. Who is the head of state and commander in chief of the armed forces?

..... Is it the tyrant with guns and bombs enough to enslave the people?

..... Is it the liar with bread and circuses enough to fool the people?

..... Is it God almighty?

..... Is it Presidents Washington, Lincoln, TR, and FDR?, because they were elected and I select them as, as perfect as perfect can be?

..... Is it Obama because he was elected and may be re-elected with my vote?

..... Is it YOU because only YOU are equal to the task?

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b. What are our attainable goals over the next 6 years?

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..... Re-industrialization of the USA especially in the heartland of America where manufacturing was once our exemplary achievement during the first industrialization of America after agricultural production was mechanized so much that heavy and light industry for mass consumption was possible?

..... Switch from carbon based energy systems to solar sourced / hydrogen stored energy systems -- largely base on solar cells, wind turbines, intelligent systems for movement of hydrogen and/or electricity to every home and factory everywhere we want one?

..... Switch from teaching systems to learning systems -- featuring games and attractive lecturers whose recorded programs are free to all users and geared to pay off to learners of specific needed skills who can prove on the job they're worth the reward they earn.

..... Switch from underpaid wages for hard essential jobs to high paid wages for same?

..... Switch from casino capitalism to tested capitalism that delivers the goods or is changed until it does?

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Barack Obama, Jon Huntsman and David Petraeus are three voices worth listening to. But whoever is elected in November 2012 will deserve our affection and respect if he is no worse than our presidents in the past. Our system of government is about the best around -- UNLESS YOU know of a better one.

In my opinion, Remant and the rest of you don't know what you want or what you're talking about.

robdverity  05/21/2011 06:34 PM Report

Bibi (brain) threw Obama under the bus. The 67 border start-point is not a new idea. The most vacuous oxymoron presented was a demilitarized sovereign state for the Pals. The most murderous state should be the one without killing instruments - and it's not the Pals.

And despite this Bibi (brain) petulance we will still give the murderers their annual $2.0 billion MILITARY grant; despite our bankruptcy, which wont bother our "ally" one damn bit.

mchawla  05/21/2011 05:17 PM Report

Israel is a LEECH.If USA and Europe stop all aid to Israel,we will have peace in weeks at 1967 borders.

1)We can't afford to send 6 Billion dollars every year.

2) They got gas deposits offhore in Israel worth billions of dollars.

GET THE F#$king LEECH OFF!!!

robdverity  05/20/2011 06:48 PM Report

Bibi is exposing his Jewish bellicosity and the tribes rush to combativeness, so endearing around the world, quarreling with established 1967 borders starting point (with ignomious swaps).

With friends like Israel (our support of which caused 9/11), who the hell needs enemies. Go home Bibi, take all Zionists with you - of all religions.

AntonGrambihler  05/20/2011 04:20 PM Report

Israel needs to move back to the boundaries assigned to it by the United Nations (UN) Resolution which authorized the division of the British Mandate of Palestine and made JERUSALEM INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY that belongs to ALL the people of the world. All Entities must abide by this resolution.

The WORLD MUST NEVER FORGET that over 35,000,000 Gentiles (Including Middle East Gentiles) died helping to bring World War II to an end, therefore; no Gentiles must be denied their right of return.

charlizecourriers  05/20/2011 02:18 PM Report

For Obama, it's all about strategic delay, domestically, with respect to the budget deficits, and internationally, with respect to Palestine. The real problem is that, much like Sparta and Persia, the 'Persians' are only growing stronger! Old men on the Charlie Rose show "know what the deal will be" but the youth of the Muslim world know the future. And Obama knows that delaying the real problems is his only path to reelection. I'm betting on youth.

tabs  05/20/2011 12:47 PM Report

This morning on CNBC's Squawkbox Saudi Prince Bin Talah of KHC was asked if the Saudis felt that the US cut Mubarak loose to soon? The Prince replied that "Obama acted prudently, and that when the people demonstrated in the square that was it sic for Mubarak." Further he stated that, "If you don't get it by now you never will." These statements by a Saudi Prince seem in direct contrast to Mort Zuckerman's claims of the Saudi's telling him that the Saudis are "furious" about the virtual backstabbing of Mubarak by the Obama administration. That the Saudis are distancing themselves from the US and are seeking other security deals with the likes of the Chinese. There does seem to be a discrepancy in the stories here, that somebody should get to the bottom of?

tabs  05/20/2011 12:31 PM Report

One wonders if President Obama thinks the American people are stupid by stating the obvious, or does this cliched melodrama of a speech pass for being good. One thing is for certain Mr Obama is more of an Edward Everett than a Lincoln. President Obama if he fails in his reelection bid has a promising career to look forward to as the writer of children's fairy tales, as his perceptions are simple and his narrative induces somnolence. There was one good thing about the President's speech and that he was far more specific about his version of an equitable solution for the Israeli, Palestinian conflict than usual.

REMant  05/20/2011 12:12 PM Report

My first reaction to reading the speech posted at Al-Jazeera since the Post won't accept anything this long:

"He termed it "a new chapter in American diplomacy" But it was a pep-talk for govt workers no doubt corralled in the Dept of State to hear him. It was defensive as usual, self-congratulatory, meandering and illogical, describing a Whig reformer's narrative of progress, and attempting to get in front of the parade, or say he was there all along. Nevertheless, he stumbled through it, as if he wasn't quite sure what it was AIPAC and his speech writers had agreed to. There was a lot of talk and very little action. It took no responsibility for bringing the events recounted in several attempts at Reaganesque sallies to pass, and he blamed it all on Shiites, and, unfortunately for him, former American stooges. All haters, he concluded.

The narrative began with the assertion that American success in Iraq and Afghanistan over Al-Qaeda has encouraged freedom lovers (emphasis on the lovers) throughout the Middle East. This they have expressed against their tyrannical and predatory rulers, but who it was not mentioned have been supported for decades by the Western leaders such as himself. Too, they have seen the promised land in India and other globalizing showplaces, but not of course in Ireland, Spain or Greece, Pakistan or the United States.

Despite Israel's continuing oppression of Palestinians, he asserts "America's interests are not hostile to people's hopes; they're essential to them." The latter because America has prevented, not made more possible, nuclear war, protected, not exploited the world's supply of oil, prevented, not instigated the scourge of terrorism.

And of course he said he had said this all of this two years ago in Cairo.

The fact remains that some weeks before the first stirrings of this so-called awakening, I wrote Charlie Rose and chastised him for covering some sport of other when price rises throughout the Mediterranean area were likely to kindle riots, not Mr Obama, nor anyone in his administration. Mr Bernanke even responded that it wasn't his policies that had raised the price of food and oil. Fat chance. But in Mr Obama's view these countries are underdeveloped, and thus he proposes economic rewards for those who want to follow his lead. There is no mention of aid to any others. In his view democracy doesn't follow development, but development democracy. One can live on love, I suppose. I wonder what China thinks of that idea. But it is surely all the more reason for Americans to vote him out of office, when they reawaken two years from now.

As Tocqueville observed the American idea of democratic participation is to vote (maybe, for only about 1/3 ever do) once every four years and then fall back asleep. If Mr Obama believes in protests, the American public most certainly does not, but I doubt the reason is because they are freedom-loving. Mr Obama said he "respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard" but nothing about those who are not peaceful and law-abiding. Clearly some of those in the streets of Cairo, Damascus and Misurata are not peaceful and law-abiding. The difference he alleges is that the government is not one of consent of the governed. This then is an all out attack on the last vestiges of monarchy or theocracy, if not also of justice, because justice is clearly not simply a matter of opinion.

I don't know if Qaddafi is crazy, legitimate, repressive or not, but I do know that the US, France and GB decided he was long before this, because he talked back to them, and was considered a remnant of the Cold War, as they do the leaders of Iran and Syria.

In fine, Mr Obama has decided this "Arab Spring" is the equivalent of the "Prague Spring," and in a way maybe it is, since our hostility and overspending bankrupted the Soviets and Eastern Europe much as it now has the rest of the world, and looks to continue to do for any holdouts.

Perhaps he expected the American ppl will fall for this, but I think it more likely they either won't care or only hear the propaganda put out by his party's minions in the old-line media. The fact is that there is a much reason for Mr Obama to step aside as anyone in the Near East.

Too, like FDR's sudden interest in Germany and Japan, this stance deflects criticism from domestic issues and ensures further govt spending. It is analogous also because the Depression, which was unquestionably caused by similar American and British central bank policies, fueled vengeance and invasion then.

Mr Obama also reiterated his desire for a two-state solution in Palestine, even a resumption of the 1967 borders, but offered nothing more in the way of seeing that materialize. In the meantime his govt gives more money to Israel than any other in the area. And self-determination and self-expression or no, he says Israel has every right to oppose Hamas.

In his mind the choice is between hate and hope, hate being the past, love, presumably, the future. That's what Mr Obama really offers love, not freedom, not independence, not morality, not prosperity, but his affection. And, of course, if you reject it, well...."

To which I add in consideration of the discussion here:

1. According to the Post yesterday morning the Israel-Palestine portion was almost omitted.

2. You can see the tension between interests and ideals in Zuckerman's and Ignatius's comments as well. Obama tried to argue they were the same, but that's something probably only Tom Friedman and George Bush also believe. Undoubtedly tho the notion was the core of the effort, but as always with Obama's speeches, it seemed the work of a committee, which it likely was, chock-full of contradictions, saying that America was, and was not, responsible for the uprisings, that America would tolerate govts it didn't like, and it would not, or at least they would find no support, and so forth. True believers meet cognitive dissonance with rigidity we are told. Zbig's complaint that we are no longer in the position of a generation ago raised my eyebrow since the latter was obviously based on autocracy and I wonder just whose fault he thinks the current situation is.

3. Obama's basic philosophy, which I tried to draw out of the bling could be likened to Israel's settlement building. He didn't just say we would support democracy, or even that we would foment revolution, like some Jacobins or Bolsheviks, but that friendly govts, little outposts of democracy, would dot the world. Maybe he's been listening to Petraeus too much.

4. Obviously, Syria has the potential to become a wider war between Sunni and Shiite that destroys whatever was gained in Iraq, makes US presence in Bahrain precarious and perhaps even draws in Iran and Saudi Arabia. I would fully expect anything like what transpired in Libya to be met by Assad's party with an attack on Israel. They would have nothing to lose.

5. On the whole I think the speech just made things worse and I am fairly amazed that his advisors let him make it, tho it did bring predictable responses from the Israel lobby, and idiots like Romney. Krauthammer was quick to say he was taking a page from Bush's bible, but we already knew that. The question is just how far will he dare go. Woodward says he really hates war, but FDR said he hated war, and so I imagine did Lincoln and Wilson, none of whom ever stuck a toe in it. I suppose he considered it, like the quite similar Libya speech, as adding his mite. The Arabs, however, seem to have found it just another sermon.