Charlie Rose

TruthSayer  02/15/2011 11:58 PM Report

@ Ricardo_Amaral: "The United States and South Korea keep playing military games and provoking North Korea – in turn North Korea can claim that they shot these nuclear warheads against Tokyo just to see how effective these nuclear warheads are when landing on top of a big city such as Tokyo – it would be considered just a military exercise and nothing to worry about."

Great conspiracy theory, the only thing that's missing is the Jewish guy with the hooked nosed in the background.

I mean seriously, even a monkey with half a brain could tell you that the military response by the South koreans and Americans are entirely justified as a show of force in response to the unprovoked shelling of civilian targets by a belligerent force. Moreover, not only are the exercises a legitimate response to the war crimes perpetrated by your great communist utopia, but the fact that they've exercised self-restraint in not retaliating by immediately shelling North Korean targets makes the collected response by the South Korean and Americans morally praiseworthy.

As for the claims about the North koreans nuking Tokyo, I'm sure you'd like to see the genocide of citizens in liberal democracies, but unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. Tokyo has a sophisticated military arsenal and I'm sure if the North Koreans tried to nuke Japan, the Japanese would have some way of shooting it out of the sky before it ever reached Japanese soil or cross Japanese aerospace.

writersblock25  12/21/2010 09:04 PM Report

David Sanger is obviously a smart man, but I sometimes find him a little boring. Of course, I understand that news reporters have to maintain objectivity, but I feel that some of them (like Sanger and Stone Phillips) do so at the cost of connecting with their audiences.

robdverity  11/29/2010 03:29 PM Report

Ricky, forgive me for being so slow on the uptake, particularly when your assertion fits my belief about where our species is headed. Our self-immolation I thought would stem from religious backed myths and ideologies a la the Semitic stone worshipers: stones (for wailing at - W. Wall) and stones (for praying at - Mecca's Kaaba).

But thanks to you the whimsical religious mythologies will be supplanted by sound economic reasoning; to wit: our self-immolation will be brought about for currency manipulation. What a relief that is. You can't imagine.

A slight revision for your consideration; substitute Peoria, IL for Tokyo. Granted it wouldn't murder as many souls (you can't always have everything), but the psychological impact would be even greater and thus a deeper plunge in the (hated) US dollar. Just a thought. Think about it. Keep up the good work.

robdverity  11/28/2010 11:55 PM Report

ABSOLUTELY!!

Ricardo_Amaral  11/28/2010 05:59 PM Report

Robdverity, you missed the point.

The United States owe Japan over US$ 1 trillion dollars – that is why in case of a North Korean nuclear attack against Tokyo the Japanese would need to dump this US$ 1 trillion dollars immediately to be able to pay for the damage and reconstruction of their country.

Never mind all the other international financial implications of such a attack

But you can bet that we would have a mother of all financial meltdowns if that nuclear attack come to past.

That it would bring the end at the speed of light of the international monetary system based on the US dollar.

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robdverity  11/28/2010 03:40 PM Report

The only crazy thing in this exchange is me for responding. Currency strength is obviously not power nowadays or N. Korea wouldn't be so dominant. And Japan doesn't owe us, we owe them (and China). And Brazil for that matter.

Keep repeating it, it seems to make you feel good (superior?).

Ricardo_Amaral  11/28/2010 08:46 AM Report

robdverity, it is not as crazy as you think the notion of nuking Tokyo.

The North Korean leadership is aware of the faith of Saddam Hussein and some of the top leaders of that regime in Iraq.

By nuking Tokyo they can cause a massive international monetary crisis and a meltdown of the US dollar.

Even if the US is able to win the battle against the North Koreans - the United States would lose the war.

When you destroy the currency of a country you basically destroyed the economy of that country.

No economic power, no military power - the end of the line....

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robdverity  11/27/2010 03:07 PM Report

Detonating a nuke in Lower Slobbovia would have a world wide destabilizing effect on all currencies, economies. And yes Rio incl'd. - along w/Tokyo and everyone else (earthquakes or no). You talk of "no one in their right minds" using nukes on N. Korea, while at the same time suggesting the insanity of nuking Tokyo? Using nukes itself is an existential display of the LACK of mental stability. Even this discussion! (Or especially this discussion.)

Agree that the jingos running our military will fall all over themselves to be a quick second in nuke use. A leftover from Fri nite high school football (of which most seem to still be in) - win at all costs mentality.

Pandora's an unforgiving bitch. Remove one or more (Hiroshima, Nagasaki) you ultimately will have to remove them all from her box of toys (nuclear winter). Trade cinders of NYC for Beijing? No problem. A natural for our species.

Ricardo_Amaral  11/27/2010 12:16 PM Report

Robdverity, years ago when they had that massive earthquake in Japan, many analysts wrote articles saying that if that earthquake had hit Tokyo, instead the other areas of Japan – they said that a massive earthquake hitting Tokyo had the potential of causing a massive meltdown of the US dollar at the speed-of-light – and that was years ago, today Japan has over US$ 1 trillion dollar in foreign exchange reserves and the other Asian countries also have a massive over-supply of US currency.

Instead of letting the 2-Koreas cool off and settle this crisis with diplomacy, the United States is putting more fuel into the fire by sending the American aircraft carrier George Washington to the area of conflict.

The North’s state-run media warned that a planned United States-South Korean military exercise could push the Korean Peninsula closer to “the brink of nuclear war.”

The current crisis at the Korean Peninsula brings back memories of the Cuban missile crisis of 1962 when the United States and Cuba/Soviet Union came to the brink of nuclear war.

The unthinkable is here again and this time around we don't have the Kennedy's to hold back a full nuclear war as they did in 1962 – this time events can very quickly get out of control and we have a showdown between North Korea and the USA.

At the end of the day a war between the 2-Koreas it is just a proxy war between the United States and China.

The real enemy of North Korea still is the United States – and the best choice for North Korea to achieve maximum damage is to attack Tokyo with multiple nuclear warheads – since that would trigger a international monetary system total collapse, because of the massive meltdown of the US dollar.

I have been watching the talking heads on American TV this morning saying how easy it would be for the United States to defeat militarily the North Koreans – the translation of that conversation in North Korean means: the North Koreans need to use all their nuclear warheads as a first strike before anybody realize what has happened.

I don't think we would have nuclear winter from North Korea using their nukes against Japan,and no country on their right mind would use nuclear weapons against North Korea, since that would be the same as attacking China with nukes.

That certainly would take the attention of the poor state of the US economy, and its very poor prospects for the coming years.

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robdverity  11/26/2010 10:49 PM Report

Ricardo, upholding the idiocy of our species, conflates the use of nukes with the effects of an Tokyo earthquake; and concludes a la a Kimjon ill(sps?) type reasoning that N. Korea should thus nuke Tokyo. To even print that shouts there's no hope. Nuclear winter that much closer. Proliferation from N. Korea to Pakistan to Myanmar to yadda, yadda land. Five down to four minutes to midnite? Or do you prefer three Ricardo? Our species is dumber than owl shit. Survival warranted?

Steve_M  11/26/2010 07:44 PM Report

When I click on the David Sanger interview on the CR webpage for Sanger, it takes me to

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11305 ; however, that is an interview re Kennedy. It is not Sanger on North Korea. Anyone else having that problem?

videocrafts  11/26/2010 07:41 PM Report

I was wondering if anyone noticed that for each of these North Korean aggressions there was a flight to safety where the dollar has risen. If I am not mistaken I believe that China was very upset with our Fed planning to buy up to $600 Billion of Bonds. North Korea's prime benefactor is China, can we assume that North Korea is acting without China's approval or at least the knowledge of the possibility that the North might act in a certain way? Ie. I am sure China sees that these actions lead to s strengthing of the dollar when they have been very vocal about things that might devalue the dollar. How can we not assume that all these events might be interwined.

Ricardo_Amaral  11/26/2010 01:14 PM Report

The alarm bells are ringing: China just gave the United States a warning about the American aircraft carrier George Washington and other American war ships coming to China's backyard without China's consent.

This article was just published by one of the major Brazilian newspapers.

*****

26/11/2010 - 12h20

“China alerta EUA contra exercícios militares em sua zona econômica”

DA REUTERS, EM PEQUIM (CHINA)

FOLHA DE SÃO PAULO

A China alertou nesta sexta-feira contra quaisquer ações militares em sua zona econômica exclusiva, em resposta à decisão dos Estados Unidos de enviar um porta-aviões para perto da ilha sul-coreana bombardeada na terça-feira (23) pela Coreia do Norte.

A Coreia do Norte lançou dezenas de morteiros contra a pequena ilha de Yenpyeong, na fronteira disputada do mar Amarelo, deixando dois militares e dois civis mortos, outros 18 feridos e queimando dezenas de casas.

"Nós nos opomos a qualquer ato unilateral conduzido na zona econômica exclusiva da China sem aprovação", disse o Ministério de Relações Exteriores. A zona econômica exclusiva é uma zona naval de até 200 milhas náuticas (cerca de 370 km) a partir da costa de um país.

Os EUA enviaram o porta-aviões USS George Washington ao mar Amarelo para exercícios militares conjuntos com a Coreia do Sul, previstos para começar no próximo domingo (28).

Planejados antes do ataques desta semana, os quatro dias de manobras são considerados uma demonstração de força que, além de enfurecer a Coreia do Norte, costuma incomodar também sua única aliada e vizinha, a China.

Washington está pressionando a China a usar sua influência sobre Pyongyang para acalmar a tensão na península, mas a China não demonstrou interesse em uma mediação.

Respondendo às críticas de parlamentares da oposição e de sua própria base aliada, o governo sul-coreano decidiu ainda enviar mais tropas a cinco ilhas do mar Amarelo, incluindo Yenpyeong, e anunciou que deve alterar as regras militares de seu Exército.

Tradicionalmente as tropas sul-coreanas recebem instruções de resguardar as fronteiras mas tentar evitar a escalada de tensão no caso de provocações do Norte, buscando evitar a retomada dos confrontos encerrados em 1953. No entanto, após o recente ataque, o governo sinaliza que pode repensar o papel muito "passivo" frente ao vizinho.

Mais cedo, a Coreia do Norte reiterou sua oposição às manobras militares conjuntas entre a Coreia do Sul e os EUA, dizendo que tais exercícios levam a península "à beira da guerra".

"As manobras militares dos imperialistas americanos e de sua belicosa marionete sul-coreana são direcionadas contra a Coreia do Norte. A situação na península coreana está à beira da guerra em consequência do projeto imprudente destes delirantes do gatilho", diz o comunicado difundido pela agência estatal KCNA.

NOVOS DISPAROS

Enquanto isso, o Ministério da Defesa sul-coreano informou ter ouvido novos disparos em ilhas do mar Amarelo, o que poderia indicar a realização de manobras militares das tropas norte-coreanas.

Sons de explosões procedentes da Coreia do Norte foram ouvidos em vários momentos entre 12h e 15h locais (entre 0h e 3h de Brasília), afirmou uma fonte ministerial.

"Acreditamos que a Coreia do Norte realizou um exercício de artilharia", disse a autoridade.

NOVO MINISTRO DA DEFESA

O presidente sul-coreano, Lee Myung-bak, nomeou nesta sexta-feira o ex-Chefe Adjunto do Estado Maior, Kim Kwan-jin, como o novo ministro da Defesa, em substituição a Kim Tae-young, que renunciou ontem ao cargo.

Com 40 anos de experiência nas Forças Armadas, o militar de 61 anos é visto como um excelente estrategista e foi escolhido por seu "conhecimento interno de políticas [de Defesa] e estratégia", diz um comunicado emitido pela agência estatal Yonhap.

A Presidência sul-coreana disse ainda que Kim é adequado para o novo cargo, "num momento em que a responsabilidade do Ministério da Defesa é mais importante do que nunca para proteger as vidas e a propriedade do povo".

A saída de seu antecessor ocorreu após duras críticas da oposição, que pediu a saída de Kim e demandou respostas "mais contundentes" frente às ameaças de Pyongyang. Membros do próprio partido de Lee e parlamentares da oposição acusaram o governo de ser demasiado fraco e responder tarde demais.

"Por que nós disparamos apenas 80 morteiros quando o Norte disparou 170?", perguntou Sim Dae-Pyeong, presidente do opositor Partido do Povo. A oposição questionou ainda o motivo das tropas sul-coreanas terem demorada cerca de 15 minutos desde o primeiro ataque norte-coreano para reagir, quando as regras militares estabelecem uma resposta em, no máximo, cinco minutos.

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mundo/836650-china-alerta-eua-contra-exercicios-militares-em-sua-zona-ec onomica.shtml

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Ricardo_Amaral  11/25/2010 07:54 PM Report

robdverity, a few years ago I read a report saying that a major earthquake in Tokyo could trigger a potential meltdown of the US dollar - because the Japanese would need to dump their large supply of foreign reserve currency (over $ 1 trillion in US dollar) to be able to pay for the damage of such massive earthquake.

A few nuclear warheads landing in Tokyo can also create the same type of massive monetary meltdown.

When you destroy the currency of a country that country becomes a basket case.

It does not make sense to nuke South Korea, because many North Koreans have relatives who live in South Korea - you don't want to kill your own people.

The Koreans have a historical reason to dislike the Japanese. As a matter of fact China, the Russians also don't like the Japanese.

If the North Koreans are going to be cornered by the United States to do the unthinkable (use nuclear weapons) then the obvious choice for a target it would be an enemy that everybody hates because of past history.

By nuking Tokyo the North Koreans can achieve maximum damage, and even might be able to get away with such attack because no other country would use nuclear weapons to retaliate against North Korea on behalf of Japan.

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robdverity  11/25/2010 03:51 PM Report

Who better to discredit Ricardo than Ricardo. Nuke Tokyo? If it's a matter of voting, how about Rio, Ricardo?

Get back on your meds.

Ricardo_Amaral  11/25/2010 11:48 AM Report

Do you remember the 1962 Cuban missile crisis that almost ended up in a nasty nuclear war?

At that time we came to the blink of nuclear war – and the American generals were ready to start such a war – only the Kennedy's that were able to stop such a war in the last minute.

The United States is provoking North Korea – a country with nothing to lose – and they cornering North Korea into doing the unthinkable.

We have idiots in Washington calling the shots,and we have the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War as prove of that.

I don't understand why the rest of the world is not asking the United States to back off from escalating the military crisis in the Korean Peninsula – and give time to settle the dispute with diplomacy instead of with nuclear weapons.

If this Korean War gets out of control the entire world is going to pay the price. The time for the rest of the world to say something it is now, before the entire mess spin out of control.

You can read the discussions on that subject at:

North Korea's Nuclear Weapons

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55728&perpage=6&pagenumber=23

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Ricardo_Amaral  11/25/2010 08:50 AM Report

Lindarden07, it would be a waste of time and resources for North Korea to attack South Korea and re-start the old Korean War.

North Korea has a much better option at its disposal, which can inflict a much bigger damage to its enemy the United States - by dropping 4 or 5 nuclear warheads on top of Tokyo the result it would be a collapse of the US dollar because of all the financial interconnection between the United States and Japan - and the over US$ 1 trillion dollars in foreign exchange reserves that Japan is holding that it would be needed immediately in Japan as a result of the attack.

The Japanese would need to dump their supply of US dollar creating a massive meltdown in the international monetary system.

The international monetary system based on the US dollar is at the edge of the abyss and an event such as a nuclear attack against Tokyo would create a massive international monetary meltdown - and this time around there is no safety net to rescue the dying international monetary system.

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lindarden07  11/24/2010 11:44 PM Report

The division line in the conflicting area shall be redrawn. If you take a look at the map. The area is very close to the North Korean sea boarder. And South Korean is doing the military exercises there. The possibility of misfiring is very high.

The final solution has two folds. US promises not to invade North Korean in military, just as US did to Cuba to solve the missile crisis.

The other possibility is North Korea will evolve into a more market-oriented economy.

Two conditions are necessary but may not be sufficient to solve the current problem. But a good start.

If War breaks, it won't be good to Koreans and Chinese. Of course, US can have a bigger influence over the region.

Ricardo_Amaral  11/24/2010 11:38 PM Report

By the way, which country would retaliate on behalf of Japan with nuclear weapons against North Korea?

Keep in mind that attacking North Korea with nuclear weapons would be the same as attacking China with nukes because they are next door to each other.

Besides which country would use their nuclear weapons to retaliate a nuclear attack against Japan?

The Europeans? I don't think so.

The Russians (they are part of Europe but) I don't think so....

The Chinese? I don't think so...

The United States? I don't think so, since too many Americans still remember WW II, and they remember Pearl Harbor and the war on the Pacific.

Moral of the story – after the nuclear attack against Tokyo - no nuclear retaliation against North Korea.

North Korea can get away with a nuclear attack against Japan....and at the same time cause a meltdown of the US dollar in world markets.

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Ricardo_Amaral  11/24/2010 07:33 PM Report

We have been discussing North Korea and nuclear weapons for more than 5 years at the Elite Trader Politics Forum.

The North Koreans are aware of what happened to Saddam Hussein, and that probably would be the faith of the senior leaders of North Korea as well.

The only difference is that North Korea has between 10 or more nuclear warheads on its arsenal, and that can make a big difference.

The best option available for North Korea is to attack Tokyo with 4 or 5 nuclear warheads since that would take care of the crumbling international monetary system based on the US dollar and put it out of its misery.

The United States and South Korea keep playing military games and provoking North Korea – in turn North Korea can claim that they shot these nuclear warheads against Tokyo just to see how effective these nuclear warheads are when landing on top of a big city such as Tokyo – it would be considered just a military exercise and nothing to worry about.

We have discussed that scenery as an easy task for North Korea to achieve – people who play with fire can get burned – and things can get out of control very easily.

North Korea's Nuclear Weapons

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55728

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CarolJ  11/24/2010 01:05 PM Report

To Web Staff this is not the David Sanger interview, it is with the genleman who wrote the book "Camelot". I clicked on this from the lower right side of the home page. Where you have the picture of David Sanger it is the correct interview. So how did this become a different one.

REMant  11/24/2010 01:00 PM Report

I think what we are seeing from K Korea is not some subliminal cry for acceptance, but the artifacts of a power struggle. I'd guess someone in the military is trying to create a situation where a coup can succeed. I have long thought Kim something of a figurehead, and I suspect his ill health, along with current economic conditions, has brought things to a head. Threats may be seen as useful to whomever, and, of course, responses more so. But I seriously doubt the South would be deliberately attacked, at least not in such a way that any real damage was done. I think this was the reason for that curious trip to China earlier this year, and I think that the admin probably knows whatever transpired there. The greatest danger would I think lay in a power vacuum, and it poses a real dilemma just how to deal with it, as it does in Iran and Pakistan. President Carter (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/23/AR2010112305808.html?hpid=opinionsbo x1) apparently thinks the North are just jockeying for a better position in a final peace treaty, but it is hard to see what they would achieve, and, if re-unification were the goal, they would have done just as well by sticking with the "Sunshine Policy." While one party may be interested in peace, I think it likely another does not, and realizes that if a treaty just provides for "denuclearization," they, with more than a million ppl under arms, would gain an advantage. This seems very much like US-Soviet relations redux.