Charlie Rose

robdverity  06/06/2010 05:20 PM Report

If Israel were a REAL friend and ally they would, like a penitent lover, concede that our relationship is detrimental to each other, to world stability and world peace, and severe it starting with refusal of all financial and military aid. They are prob. economically better off than we are anyway. Perhaps they could consider repayment.

Ole Ben is one helluva party-line rationalizer. He's on a Israeli Kool-aid high. They could crap in his Post Toasties and he would brag about the aroma, while consuming it with relish.

robdverity  06/06/2010 02:40 PM Report

SirD - his boss is Bloomberg, which says it all (and what you said of course).

Considering where Charlie's bread is buttered, maybe he comes as close as he can get. Kudos are due for promoting and obtaining the Syria and Hamas interviews at all. Plus if you make the queries too offensive the interviewee could terminate (which in itself would be good footage however).

SirD  06/06/2010 02:11 PM Report

Four jewish commentators--all defending Israel--and no Arab commentators. This report was so skewed in favor of Israel as to be unwatchable.

This is not fair coverage, barely any mention of the dead or Israeli "illegal" actions/occupation. I really wish Charlie Rose could be a fair platform for everyone but unfortunately he knows all his donors are Pro-Israeli millionaires and he's on a very short leash. Another sad testimony to state of journalism today.

robdverity  06/05/2010 03:27 PM Report

WWIII? Such grandiosity. A Jew that denies he walks on water, has no restraint. No such luck - for now. Let's hope doomsday comes over something more substantive - like Iran getting and demonstrating nukes fired 1000s of miles.

Wonder which bellicose belligerent will preempt the other - followed by criss-crossing of every other nuke in the final immolation. But anything for Zionism. Sieg heil!

BENEZRAA  06/04/2010 08:51 PM Report

IS THE "RACHEL CORRIE" A PLANNED MARTYR SHIP? ONE STEP AWAY FROM WORLD WAR THREE!

A FEW YEARS AGO A YOUNG AMERICAN WOMAN WITH MISPLACED IDEALS, WHICH IDEALS WERE KNOWINGLY OR UNWITTINGLY EXERCISED IN SUPPORT OF HAMAS, PLACED HERSELF BETWEEN A MOVING ISRAELI BULLDOZER AND THE HOME OF A TERRORIST, WHOSE HOME THE BULLDOZER WAS THERE BY LAW TO DEMOLISH. RACHEL CORRIE GAVE AWAY HER YOUNG LIFE BEFORE THAT BULLDOZER, A GREAT PERSONAL TRAGEDY MOURNED BY THE ENTIRE WORLD. TODAY AN OSTENSIBLY HUMANITARIAN SHIP NAMED IN HER HONOR IS MAKING IT'S WAY TOWARDS GAZA, DOING SO JUST,BUT, NOT JUSTLY ON THE HEELS OF THE "AVI MAMARA" INCIDENT. THE OPERATORS OF THE VESSEL "RACHEL CORRIE" HAVE PUBLICLY STATED THAT THEY WILL NOT RESIST BOARDING BY THE ISRAELI NAVY AND WILL WILLINGLY BE REDIRECTED TO ASHDOD, ISRAEL.

LET US PRAY THAT THE "RACHEL CORRIE" REACHES SAFE HARBOR IN ISRAEL, AND THAT NO "INCIDENT" OCCURS THAT MAY BE BEYOND THE IMAGINATION OF THE WELL INTENDED, BUT, MISGUIDED HUMANITARIANS ONBOARD THE "RACHEL CORRIE".

SUCCESSFUL AND SAFE ARRIVAL OF THE "RACHEL CORRIE" TO ASHDOD, AND THEN THE TRANSFER OF HUMANITARIAN GOODS BY THE ISRAELIS INTO GAZA ON THE BEHALF OF THE HUMANITARIANS OF THE SHIP (LESS THE BUNKER BUILDING CONCRETE), WILL DO MUCH TO HONOR THE MEMORY OF RACHEL CORRIE AND WILL MITIGATE MUCH OF THE ANGER, ANGUISH, AND BLOTTED HUMANITARIANISM OF THE SAD INCIDENT IN WHICH RACHEL CORRIE GAVE HER LIFE. SO TOO, SAFE HARBOR WILL DO THE SAME WITH RESPECT TO THE SIMILAR RESULTS WE HAVE JUST SEEN AS INITIAL CONSEQUENCES OF THE "AVI MAMARA" INCIDENT.

MISGUIDED IN THEIR SUPPORT OF HAMAS, CONSCIOUSLY OR INADVERTENTLY, THE HUMANITARIANS OF THE "RACHEL CORRIE" MISSION MAY FACE MORE RISK THAN THEY MAY IMAGINE. SUPPOSE SOME JIHADIST TERRORISTS HAVE HIDDEN A BOMB ABOARD SHIP AND SET IT TO EXPLODE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, IN ISRAELI WATERS, OR EVEN IN THE PORT OF ASHDOD; SUPPOSE THERE IS A SECRET OPERATION ABOARD SHIP INVOLVING JIHADIST MARTYR BOMBERS (BE THEY HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, I.R.A., AL-QUAEDA, SOLIDARITY, ROTE ARMEE FAKTION, OR WHOMEVER), OR ANY SIMILAR SUCH SECRET OPERATION FROM OFF SHIP (SUCH AS JIHADIST OPERATIVES DISGUISED AS ISRAELI NAVY MEN), OR ANY TYPE OF SUCH SINISTER EVENT DESIGNED TO CAST BLAME ON ISRAEL AND TO ENFLAME AND INCITE WORLD OPINION AND WAR: SUCH AN EVENT COULD BE ANALOGOUS TO THE ENTIRE WORLD STEPPING ONTO A LANDMINE IN ONE ILL FATED MOMENT....

LET US PRAY FOR THE SAFETY OF THE "RACHEL CORRIE" FROM ANY ACCIDENTAL OR INTENDED HARM!

TODAY IS DAY 1469 SINCE GILAD SHALIT WAS KIDNAPPED AND MADE CAPTIVE IN GAZA BY HAMAS. SHABBATH SHALOM.

spellettieri  06/04/2010 05:33 PM Report

CarbonFool,

Israel has built a country and an economy out of the desert. what have the Arab countries around her done in the last 50 years? They receive American aid too, but their actions have led to almost no economic growth. Don't you think that a country with a democracy, pluralistic society, modern universities and technological advancements is worthy of our support? The Palestinian people receive the highest aid per capita in the world and have done nothing with that aid. They keep their people in 'refugee' camps for decades because they care more about destroying Israel than building Palestine. These people dont get my sympathy, they created their situation now they must live with it or change their behaviour

CarbonFoil  06/04/2010 04:45 PM Report

As an American, I'm outraged that my country sends billions of dollars of foreign aid to a nation that attacks a humanitarian aid ship in international waters, and that routinely denies basic rights to a captive population. Isreal's leadership is so stubborn in maintaining the Gaza blockade that they stupidly created an lethal public relations blunder in defending it. Heckuva job, Bini!

Isreali apologists should be ashamed of themselves. Bleating about 'self defense' became indefensible long ago, at least since the 2006 attack on Lebanon.

LawrenceA  06/04/2010 04:24 AM Report

I would have liked to have seen a representative from Hamas and Fatah to speak for themselves and balance the view of the two Israeli's on this show. It is so rare to hear from Hamas directly due partly to our unwillingness to hear and partly due to their need to be obscure because Israel will kill them if they go public.

I do understand that this panel was put together quickly and there wasn't more time to gather the Palestinian side, but still, it would have been a better interview if the Palestinian view AND the view of the people on the flotilla were represented.

Ricardo_Amaral  06/03/2010 11:49 PM Report

robdverity, this is the figure that we know about it - Just God knows how much money Israel got over the years from all kinds of other secret funds of the US government.

It's a lot of money in proportion to the size of Israel's economy - GDP $194 billion (2009 est.)

No wonder Israel does not want to lose this gravy train - as long there's is trouble in that area of the world then the US gravy train will keep coming on its regular schedule.

Making peace would mean the end of the gravy train.

.

robdverity  06/02/2010 11:50 PM Report

Ricardo, $250 billion only? That's prob. only what's admitted to. Israeli's need enough to replenish their phosphorous supplies.

Ricardo_Amaral  06/02/2010 08:59 PM Report

Posted on the comments section of Brazzil magazine on article about Brazil and Iran sanctions.

May 23, 2010

Ricardo: The Israelis used to be a respected army, and some people even thought they might be the best in the world – until the fiasco in Lebanon did show to the world how much the Israeli army has declined on their quality and efficiency.

Today they are just another army and nothing special to write home about it.

Americans are tired of supporting Israel and the American people are waking up that this support for Israel goes against the long-term self-interest of the United States on that area of the world.

Without this massive support from the United States year after year the decline of the Israeli army would go south even faster. Forget about the glory years of yesterday, since that is in the past – it’s history…

Today the Israeli army is more like a dog that barks, but doesn’t bite; like a toothless dog.

******

Ederson: Ricardo, you may be correct, maybe the Israelis are washed up as a nation…

******

Ricardo: If you define Israel as being just as a military operation and nothing else then the world should be glad that Israel is on its way down.

But in my opinion, Israel is a lot more than that – it is a country that can have a very prosperous economy in the coming years with and industrial base in state-of-the-art new technologies.

I much prefer to think of Israel as a country that creates new technologies of the future, than a country that just keeps harassing its neighbors and keeps that area of the world in a constant state of war.

I was reading a report that just came out about the new generation of Jews in the United States and how they are also disconnecting completely from Israel. It was a very interesting article, and I was surprised to find out that even the new young Jewish American kids are sick and tired of Israel’s constant state of war mindset, and always creating an atmosphere of no chance of peace in sight for the Middle East.

**********

May 24, 2010

Ricardo: Yes, we all watched on television when the Israeli army lost most of that global respect during the conflict against Lebanon during the Israel/Lebanon war of 2006 when Hezbollah kicked the ass of the Israeli army for the entire world to see it on CNN News, and the BBC News.

Hezbollah humiliated the Israeli army during that conflict, and the only thing the Israeli’s could do was to drop bombs from airplanes and nothing else, and every time the Israeli army engaged in a direct battle with Hezbollah – Hezbollah kicked their ass – and the entire world saw it on CNN News and the BBC News.

Basically what the entire world found out is how overrated the Israeli army was – if anything the last Lebanon war served like a reality check.

**********

May 24, 2010

Ricardo: Ederson, you still are trying to defend Israel, and you are probably Jewish.

I had no intention to offend you and your religion, as I mentioned a number of times during our discussions on the comment section of various articles on Brazzil magazine, I am agnostic, and it does not matter to me what kind of religion you practice.

I already explained a number of times on this forum that I am not anti-Jew, or anti-Semitic, or any other excuse that you guys use all the time.

I am not a religious person, and I don’t care which religion anybody practices from Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, Hinduism, and so on….

I am glad that you grasped that I think like an economist and not as a warmonger. What is important to me is economic development and to create a better life and raise all the boats to the largest possible number of people of the population in Brazil and in the United States.

I have been living in the New York Metropolitan area for a long time, and Israel is always making the news headlines, and when you think about Israel two thoughts comes to mind:

1) Poor me, I am a victim of the Holocaust. And they have been beating this subject to death for many decades. I can’t hear another word about the Holocaust, something that happened long before I was born, and the Jewish Holocaust did not happen even during my lifetime. There were many Holocausts in history, but the Jewish people think their Holocaust was a special Holocaust and more important than everybody else’s Holocausts.

Or

2) Israel the troublemaker. For decades now Israel has hogged the news year after year with its constant trouble in the Middle East.

We have been saturated of Israel’s crisis one after another since the 1970’s, never mind the 1980’s, 1990’s, and the first decade of the new century. Israel is like a case of herpes that never goes away.

If you believe it or not there are more important things happening around the world than what is going on with Israel that requires the attention and support of the United States.

If anything the support that the United States has been giving to Israel all these years it does not makes sense and it goes against the long-term self-interest of the United States.

Americans are finally realizing that it’s not good for their long-term self-interest to keep giving this constant support to Israel.

The Israelis probably have realized by now that the US gravy train is close to the end.

Even the new American Jewish generation in the United States is disconnecting from Israel.

*****

New York Review of Books – June 10, 2010

The Failure of the American Jewish Establishment

By: Peter Beinart

In 2003, several prominent Jewish philanthropists hired Republican pollster Frank Luntz to explain why American Jewish college students were not more vigorously rebutting campus criticism of Israel. In response, he unwittingly produced the most damning indictment of the organized American Jewish community that I have ever seen….

.

Ricardo_Amaral  06/02/2010 08:58 PM Report

On August 28, 2009 when I received my copy of the “Financial Times” (UK) I was surprised to see a picture of Netanyahu (the Israeli Prime Minister) visiting Auschwitz (for the usual photo up) that took half of the front page.

I was wondering how effective must be these photo up’s today when most of us we not even born when the holocaust happened a long time ago. Besides the Jews have milked to the bone that theme over the years, and the reality today is that most people can associate the Jewish state (Israel) with repression of the people from Gaza, and the total destruction of a country Lebanon when the Israeli Army killed thousands of defenseless senior citizens, woman, and children.

One would think that the past history of repression against the Jewish people would teach them, but it seems to me that the only lesson they learned is repression and massive violence.

The Jews are becoming completely delusional about the perception that people have about them and about the Jewish state – Israel.

The article on the Financial Times said that Benjamin Netanyahu and his foreign minister Avignor Lieberman would do anything to avoid restarting the peace talks with the Palestinians, and Mr. Lieberman venture to say that the next 16 years offered scarcely better prospects.

In essence Barack Obama should not waste any time with these guys from Israel – I guess Barack Obama must have something more productive to do with his time than wasting his time and energy with these fools.

The United States look very foolish by sending year after year any foreign aid to these guys, which goes completely against the self-interest of the United States as a country anyway.

.

Ricardo_Amaral  06/02/2010 08:57 PM Report

August 3, 2009

SouthAmerica: Here is some more information about Israel that I posted on the Elite Trader Forum in December 2006.

*****

December 19, 2006

SouthAmerica: Yes, this thread title is “Middle East Meltdown and US Foreign Policy.”

It is ironic that we are discussing that mess from the Jewish position on all this including the holocaust and everything else.

But if we discuss this topic from a United States position and the self-interest of the United States regarding US foreign policy around the world then it is another story.

Then we come to the real relevant questions from a US point of view:

1) Why is the United States is burning so much clout, prestige, and wasting so much borrowed money on the Middle East when its real self-interest as a nation it is about “OIL” and nothing else.

2) Now we come to the second question: Why is the United States backing up Israel in the Middle East when it makes a thousand times more sense to be in the side of the Arab states and the Palestinian people?

I am sure that if the United States had been on the side of the Arabs all these years then the radical Arabs would not have the need to come to the United States and blow up buildings with airplanes as they did in 9/11.

By siding with Israel the United States is infuriating the very people who are supplying almost 50 percent of US energy (OIL) and also all these trillions of US dollars of recycled oil money that have been invested in the US by the Arab countries.

In terms of United States foreign policy it does not make any sense to back up Israel in the Middle East – and that policy is not costing the US loss of clout and prestige only in that area of the world – that policy is destroying US clout and prestige everywhere else around the world.

It is a terrible policy and the only reason that the United States continues to sink in quicksand is because the Jewish Lobby is very powerful in the United States and they are able to convince Americans to stick with a losing proposition such as is the case of US policy regarding the Middle East.

The United States unconditional support to Israel in the Middle East is creating a situation that is snowballing in the Middle East – and everybody knows what happens to you when you are standing on quicksand.

.

Ricardo_Amaral  06/02/2010 08:56 PM Report

It was interesting the discussion on the Charlie Rose Show last night regarding the latest Israeli military massacre in international waters close to Gaza.

The global mainstream media reaction to the massacre, and the spineless reaction of the United States government. It is no wonder the United States clout and prestige is declining around the world according to the US lack of leadership and also lack of common sense.

Among the guests on last night’s program the minister of misinformation of Israel came across as being arrogant on his efforts to defend the latest “Pathetic” military fiasco of his country.

Israel have been receiving military aid from the United States since 1973 – adjusted for inflation and in terms of current dollars probably the United States have invested over $250 billion dollars in military aid to Israel during the period 1973 – 2010.

Israel has been the largest recipient of US foreign aid, and since 1973 Israel has received over $ 250 billion dollars from the US gravy train.

Israel learned nothing with the holocaust, since today Israel is a major oppressor of people who can’t defend themselves – and we watch on a regular basis here on the US television the results of Israeli gunships attacking women and children in the Gaza strip.

I am sick and tired of listening how Israel is a victim. When they are among the major oppressors on the Middle East.

I wonder what would have happened if instead of the US giving all this military aid to Israel during all these years if the money had been invested instead in education, and a Marshall plan to help lift all boats in that area of the world?

I don’t blame the Israelis from wanting to keep the US gravy train coming.

The sad part is that the United States has been trying to bring peace into the Middle East for many decades, but the United States is not smart enough to realize that as long the gravy train is going to Israel – then Israel has an incentive to sabotage any peace process, because the self-interest of Israel is focused in making sure that the gravy train keep coming and as long they can get away with it.

Americans can’t figure out a simple truth even to save their lives, but you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the key to Middle East peace is for the USA to stop supplying the gravy train to Israel. No more gravy train, no more incentive to keep that mess going on forever…

***********

October 31, 2009

SouthAmerica: Today I was reading the latest issue of “The Economist” magazine dated October 31st – November 6th 2009 – and by pure coincidence they had an article about the “Jewish Lobby” in Washington D.C.

The article is about American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) one of these organizations that were set up to hijack American foreign policy and influence US government policies to serve Israel’s interests.

The article said: AIPAC has an annual budget of around US$ 60 million, more than 275 employees, an endowment of over US$ 130 million and a new US$ 80 million headquarters building on Capitol Hill.

One of the major purposes of this organization is to make sure the gravy train keep coming from the United States on a regular basis.

No wonder the United States under the heavy influence of the “Jewish Lobby” keeps doing a lot of foolish things that goes completely against the long-term self-interest of the United States – and in the meantime the rest of the world is watching it and wondering when the United States is going to catch up on how silly the United States looks from the perspective of the rest of the world.

.

GQtaste  06/02/2010 08:02 PM Report

What's the point of having these talking heads on here if you're not going to ask the hard, tough questions? I realize their not going to tell the truth and you're not going to put them in their place so...

It's a sham and a waste of time. Oh, how the powerful and connected don't have to let the public know how things really have become.

And I"m sick of certain folks getting on the Obama administration for being too tough on the mother land. Give me a break! If we don't kowtow to them in every way then they act like children.

robdverity  06/02/2010 05:00 PM Report

I repeat: "Tolerate a half century of degradation, murder and living in your own excrement and then see if you think it is trivial. Your outrage is as fatuous as your immaterial rant against Christians - which BTW I agree with."

Israel kills 9 and I'm vulgar. Go figure!? Your sign-off of ". . . these things happen." referring to murderers and baby killers strikes me as a vulgarity, insularity and parochialism writ so large it trumps logic. Translation: ISRAEL CAN DO NO WRONG!. They prove it over and over and over ad nauseam.

charlizecourriers makes a point worth considering. In effect her or his message is technology is transferable (a la nukes and drones and missiles). Ominous long term. Ultimately, they wont need tunnels or ships.

This may well bite the US in the butt as well. "Drones hit Wall St and Statue of Liberty in retaliation for Israel support; Knesset also hit." a future inevitable headline?

Lastly, your concern for anyone mistakenly thinking you can walk on water says a lot about you - and your heritage. Modesty is obviously no problem. Jews murder and I label them as such, which makes ME vulgar(?). The act is subsumed by the label?

ShalomFreedman  06/02/2010 04:26 PM Report

It would have been helpful if at the outset of this discussion there had been along with the view of Khaled Mashaal saying he only opposes the 'occupation' some kind of presentation of the 'Hamas charter'. It calls for the destruction of Israel and has demonizing language towards the Jewish people as a whole. Charlie Rose does not seem to understand that when Mashaal refers to the occupation he is not referring to the lands Israel captured in the 1967 war but rather to all of Israel itself. When Mashaal means the 'end of the occupation' he means the end of Israel.

Thus when he poses at moderation by saying that this is his only demand he is not really saying something which any Israeli can accept, or wish to negotiate towards.

BENEZRAA  06/02/2010 03:06 PM Report

ATTN: Robdverity, RE - "ISRAELI SOLDIERS TESTIFY TO WAR CRIMES"

You have sunk to a level of vulgarity and exaggeration in this and in other recent comments that challenge tolerance. You take a little truth (not to say that the particular truth is non-trivial) and then concoct a disgusting dish out of it. It is one thing to acknowledge the wrongdoing of a few; it is another to exaggerate that wrongdoing to a whole population. A handful or several handfuls occurred by some Israeli troops in Gaza. This does not change the minority nature of these events, nor does it make the entire nation of Israel baby killers and murderers. You seem to expect Israel to walk on water or not walk at all. My guess is that you expect Israel to be a nation of Jesus Christs. You may even think that Israel only has the right to exist by being a nation of Jesus Christs. I'm going to guess as well that you have similar expectations of the USA. Christians tend to believe that Jesus Christ was both the Son of God and God Himself. This may create some confusion to Christians, since Jesus was Jewish, therefore anyone claiming to be a Jew must be able to walk on water. Sorry, no such luck. I never met anyone, Jew, Catholic, other Christian, who ever walked on water (with the exception of one man I know, who dressed up like Jesus and walked barefoot on the frozen surface of a lake just as it was beginning to melt so that the photo made him look like Jesus walking on water surrounded by a cloud). Give Israel, the USA, and yourself a break! Neither Israel nor the USA are nations to be characterized as murderers and baby killers, even though in war these things happen.

charlizecourriers  06/02/2010 02:59 PM Report

I didn't hear "Charlie" ask the Israeli's to renounce violence. It won't be long before those bright Palestinian students studying abroad design and fabricate their own 'predator' aircraft. Launched from offshore, they will be a new incentive for rethinking the history of Zionism, and its future...

BENEZRAA  06/02/2010 02:55 PM Report

REGARDING SPECIFIC COMMENTS BY CONVERSATIONAL GUEST ROBERT MALLEY PERTAINING TO THE BLOCKADE:

Robert Malley quotes Meshaal as having said that Hamas would accept "any" international filter of goods going into Gaza other than the current Israeli Blockade.

Theoretically, this could mean an international filter including some Israeli participation as well as participation from the USA, Europe, Russia, China, Africa, India, Australia, et al. Such an international filter likely would be cumbersome and would not have the security of Israel as a deep and personally invested motivation to be thorough. This does not even touch the additional increased risks of bribery and black market activity analagous to the food for oil program that made Sadaam Hussein so infamous. Theory and reality always prove different, once the rubber meets the road.

As conversational guest Yuli-Yoel Edelstein stated, if any international filter were to resemble the existing international filter in southern Lebanon, there by international law to prevent renewed paramilitary buildup of Hezbollah in southern Lebanon since the 2006 Israel-Lebanon War, then this existing highly porous filter, a filter that exists in name only, is already a failure and a predictor of the failure of any similar filter. Southern Lebanon and Syria now bristle with Katyusha rockets manned by Iranian trained Hezbollah fighters, just waiting to launch the next war against Israel. When the rubber meets the road, Israel must rely on itself.

Israel must rely on itself to filter goods going into Gaza. Gaza suffers, willingly and unwillingly, because Hamas, instead of turning water into wine, turns food and medicine into weapons. The people are sick, hungry, weak, unsheltered - an humanitarian tragedy - because Hamas would rather arm the people than feed the people; Hamas would rather send the people on suicide missions than house them; Hamas would rather build military bunkers disguised as schools and hospitals and office buildings.

The issue ought not be worldwide pressure on Israel to surrender the necessary blockade; the issue ought to be, why is there not diligence at various international ports to prevent the shipment of contraband into Gaza? Why should Israel be left alone to have to do the entire job of the world by itself? If the world wants to exercise power with respect to controlling the flow of contraband into Gaza, and to see to it that true humanitarian aide is sent to Gaza, then ought not the world show sincerity by each nation doing what it may in it's own geo-political context, using the same diligence as the Israelis?

And there is still the landed issue of the tunnels that are used to smuggle all manner of persons and weapons and contraband in and out of Gaza. Imagine if the energy of the people of Gaza was not wasted on war and tunnels and instead on the construction of factories, schools, hospitals, and houses. But, as long as Hamas has power and is devoted to Israel's total destruction, there can be no hope Gaza. Even if Hamas did not have power, any regime in Gaza replacing Hamas would have to prevent terror against Israel from Gaza, and unfortunately there is little to no precedent for the success of such an intent.

The world says that Gaza is increasingly a ghetto, and the world is doubly angry against Israel in that of all nations, the Israelis ought to understand and be sympathetic to the Gaza population. What the world fails to see is that Israel is profoundly sympathetic beyond reason to the plight of Gaza -- but, not to the point of suicide. Compare the Warsaw Ghetto to Gaza. There is no comparison and the world makes a mockery of commemoration and history to elevate the circumstances of Gaza to that of a Ghetto.

We may hope for peace soon or in the future; but, it does not begin with another so-called international filter of goods into Gaza at the expense of the Israeli Blockade and therefore at the expense of Israeli security.

robdverity  06/02/2010 01:20 PM Report

The norm seems to be if you repeat something enough it will ipso facto become true. Rationalization > Truth? Accepting that norm I'll resubmit a truth to see what rationalizations result. To whit:

"Israeli Soldiers Testify to War Crimes

The PulsePosted March 19, 2009 - 10:01am "During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive," Ha'aretz reported today.

At a lecture at a pre-military academy Israeli soldiers and officers gave personal accounts of murder and brutality.

Ofer Shelah in Ma'ariv:

"For the first time since the end of Operation Cast Lead, testimonies have come to the fore of soldiers and officers from different units that took part in the operation. The testimonies . . . paint a harsh picture, very different from the IDF reports: Killing people who were clearly identified as innocent, driving families out of their homes to the open area where a policy was in force according to which whoever remained in the area was not an innocent person and could be shot, acts of vandalism and destroying property and humanitarian supplies, and an atmosphere in which the combatants understood that all this was permitted, and would not be investigated." Phosphorous shells used on schools.

It's easy to see why Israel is our ally, as we love to brutalize our young as well (military suicides!). We're both equal parts chicken shit.

Surely Beelzebub slobberingly awaits us both.

Israel is a baby burning bunch of bastards. A cowardice beyond redemption - just as we are. We're each hell on wheels when we have a techno-advantage. Israel tanks and planes etc, Ships and helicopters and comic book heroes rappelling down on ships of civilians.

BENEZRAA  06/02/2010 01:09 PM Report

ISRAEL DEFENDED ITSELF AGAINST A MILITARY ATTACK DISGUISED AS HUMANITARIAN AID. THE INCIDENT MAY WELL HAVE BEEN PLANNED IN CONCERT BY THE TURKISH-SYRIAN-IRANIAN AXIS AS A PRETEXT TO JUSTIFY A BREAK BY TURKEY OF IT'S FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL AND TO JUSTIFY A REGIONAL WAR AGAINST ISRAEL.

The decision of the Avi Mamara to run the Israeli blockade rather than to accept humanitarian escort by the Israeli Navy proves that the Avi Mamara never truly had an humanitarian mission, only a military mission, to publicly attempt to run the blockade and thus provoke an inevitable military response with Israel.

Five of the six ships of the so-called "Peace Flotilla" accepted Israel's promises to accept and deliver the humanitarian aid brought by these ships and to be escorted by the Israeli Navy to the Israeli port of Ashdod, where the unloading and distribution of the humanitarian aid would commence.

The sixth ship, the Avi Mamara, chose instead to run the blockade and to provoke violence.

For much of the world, blinded by compassion for the residents of Gaza, all it sees is "disproportionate use of force". At best, much of the world naively seems to think that, if Israel ceases to blockade Gaza, then there will be no reason for the residents of Gaza to make war on Israel. At worst, there are many in the world, who support Hamas and it's goal of utter destruction of Israel. This incident is a profound example whereby the naivety of the former is abused by the latter, the latter having an agenda totally opposite to the former. The former need to see past their naivety and realize that, when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, the residents of Gaza did not make peace with Israel and instead waged war, which is why the Israeli blockade became necessary and was not even instituted until 2007, a year after Hamas kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, who is still captive today (if he is even alive, as he is refused all visits, not even the Red Cross may visit him).

The world should remember that it was the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit that was the first in a chain of events that led to the 2006 Lebanon-Israel War. If war breaks out again this summer, the world may well regard the provocation of the Avi Mamara as the first of a new chain of events leading to war. Given the increasing realignment of Turkey towards a Turkish-Syrian-Iranian Axis, the potential for war this summer takes on a scope much larger than Hamas to Israel's south and Hezbollah to Israel's north.

As well, given the increasing realignment of Turkey towards a Turkish-Syrian-Iranian Axis, and given the choice by Muslim Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey to use the Avi Mamara Incident to vilify Israel (he could have chosen instead to inspire calm), the event of the Avi Mamara Incident may well be interpreted as a deliberate event planned with Turkey's knowledge as pretext to regional war with Israel or to severance of Turkish relations with Israel or both and also to consequence not yet imagined perhaps involving Iran and nuclear weapons.

REMant  06/02/2010 12:53 PM Report

Can Israel's PR men never stop spinning? It may be that one lesson they learned from WWII was the need for a homeland, but another appears to have been learnt from Goebbels. It would be a strange ship that did not have some sidearms on-board. The ship was boarded at night in international waters. Eyewitnesses say the commandos began the fracas by hitting civilians with their rifle butts. But so what if Hamas is opposed to the existence of Israel? Must everyone be loved? Are they not the ones displaced? Are the sins of the fathers to be visited on the sons? Do they really think Hamas is not the elected government or that they are not so mainly because of Israeli actions? Not only does this sort of brinkmanship raise questions about the Israeli leadership, but also their sanity.