Charlie Rose

Upham  12/16/2011 08:03 PM Report

Khaled Meshaal needs to come reality, the 1.5 million citizens of Gaza cannot continue to live with widespread poverty and unemployment. The Palestinians do U.S. $3 billion dollars worth of business with Israel. Israel is the Palestinians largest trading partner. If Hamas economically interacted with Israel, if could greatly improve the lives of the people of Gaza. Stop using denial, and realize Israel is there to stay, and so are the Palestinians!

nicopatterno  06/15/2011 10:31 PM Report

<a href="http://www.charlierose.com">great</a>

robdverity  06/19/2010 06:38 PM Report

A particularly cogent observation re the Helen Thomas faux pas. Shamelessly relying on the astuteness of this contributor to USA Today, Malcolm D. McPhee; Sequim, Wash.

"Helen Thomas was certainly insensitive and out of line in stating that Israelis should return to Poland or Germany. However, she did not gratuitously kill anybody, which is more than can be said of Israel. Furthermore, her larger point was quite valid that Israel is occupying Palestinian lands and, I might add, criminally and inhumanely.

"This is America's business because it is primarily U.S. complicity in these crimes that provokes terrorist attacks against us. It is a primary reason Americans are suffering and dying in Afghanistan and Iraq. Israel and its U.S. supporters now urge a U.S. war against Iran and expect U.S. support in any war they provoke.

"Most current U.S. economic, security and military problems are due substantially to these unnecessary or badly managed wars conducted in part to enhance Israel's security.

"The U.S. special relationship with Israel is increasingly becoming a one-way street. If the U.S. is determined to underwrite Israel's security with American blood and money, Israel is obligated to cooperate with the U.S. in seeking peace. If Israel refuses, the U.S. should cut ties with Israel, and then work to impose sanctions on it."

Zack  06/18/2010 06:29 PM Report

@ Spelletierri: First of all, let me be clear there is no justification to OCCUPATION! This is an insult to human dignity and History has taught us that any form of colonization and occupation is doom to fail.

1) 1967? Arab invasion? Please do not rewrite history. There was no such thing as an Arab invasion maybe I should remind you that Menahem Begin had the following remarks and I quote: 'In June 1967, we (Israel) again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.'

If you want more quotes then let's listen to what Yitzhak Rabin has to say "I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." (Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68)

However, Israel used the so called “Six day War” to expand its territories and this is a fact. Under the UN Charter there can lawfully be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in self-defense.

Noam Chomsky says in his book the fateful triangle and I quote “Right after the 1967 war, the Security Council had strong resolutions condemning Israel's move to expand and take over Jerusalem. Israel just ignored them. Because the U.S. pats them on the head and says "go ahead and violate them." There's a whole series of resolutions from then up until today, condemning the settlements, which as Israel knew and as everyone agreed were in violation of the Geneva conventions. The United States either vetoes the resolutions or sometimes votes for them, but with a wink saying, "go ahead anyway, and we'll pay for it and give you the military support for it." It's a consistent pattern. During the Oslo years, for example, settlement construction increased steadily, in violation of what the Oslo agreement was theoretically supposed to lead to. In fact the peak year of settlement was Clinton's last year, 2000. And it continued again afterward. It's open and explicit.”

(http://www.chomsky.info/books/fateful01.htm)

Arab Invasion??? In the newspaper Haaretz 4th April 1969. Moshe Dayan made the following statement:

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

2)Checkpoints for security reasons?? The same for Jews and Arabs (Muslims and Christians): Is that a bad joke? Have you ever been to Israel and the Occupied territories? I have been and I know that It is surely not the same treatment when you have an Israeli car or a Palestinian car! Moreover there is a whole system of roads for Israeli only! If people really want to know more, you can just check the website of B’tselem (the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories): http://www.btselem.org/English/

If you seriously want to talk about security Then there is other methods far better than the humiliation of checkpoints. Senator J.William Fulbright (that I am sure you will label as an Israel hater because he was one of the few with President J. Baker in our Country to dare to criticize Israel) proposed in 1970 that America should guarantee Israel's security in a formal treaty, protecting her with armed forces if necessary. In return, Israel would retire to the borders of 1967. The UN Security Council would guarantee this arrangement, and thereby bring the Soviet Union—then a supplier of arms and political aid to the Arabs—into compliance. As Israeli troops were withdrawn from the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank they would be replaced by a UN peacekeeping force. Israel would agree to accept a certain number of Palestinians and the rest would be settled in a Palestinian state outside Israel.

"The plan drew favorable editorial support in the United States. The proposal, however, was flatly rejected by Israel. 'The whole affair disgusted Fulbright,' writes [his biographer Randall] Woods. 'The Israelis were not even willing to act in their own self-interest.'" Allan Brownfield in "Issues of the American Council for Judaism." Fall 1997.[Ed.-This was one of many such proposals]

3)Blockade because of rockets from Hamas??? Hamas was democratically elected and Israel with the support of G. Bush imposed sanctions and a severe blockade on Gaza in the hope that the population will turn against Hamas! In the so called “Operation cast lead” in 2009 (so two years after the start of the blockade) It is well documented that It is Israel not Hamas who has broken the truce. Moreover what is “home made” rockets compare to the fourth most powerful army in the World that is Israel (thanks to the US financial and military support)! Let’s be serious for a moment. Who should be scared of who?

As an Israeli blind supporter you can chose whatever rethorics and direction for your country. But based on International laws and as an American, I refused that OUR TAX MONEY go in support of Israel! Our country is in real trouble and I prefer that the 30 Billions promised to Israel by Obama stays at home for the support of our own folks!! Moreover I am for our country to support Israel with a fair and balanced approach and not blindly!! It is not in OUR interest!

Get real!

Farewell.

Zack

spellettieri  06/17/2010 01:53 PM Report

@Zack - The occupation is really a product of the arab invasion of 1967 and the lack of a peace partner since then. The checkpoints exist for a good reason; they prevent terrorists from entering Israel. The reality is that EVERYONE - Jews and Arabs go through checkpoints. So do you Zack when you go to the airport? Is that humiliation? hardly. Get real. As for the blockade, that only went up after hamas fired THOUSANDS of rockets into Israel. It's a necessity since Hamas is at war with Israel. They were given many chances to negotiate peace or at least a cease fire, but that's not what they (Hamas) want.

Zack  06/15/2010 07:57 PM Report

@ Israeli guy: What do you mean by his "Arab logic"? I find incredible how you can use a very racist comment. Talking about being self critical and honesty maybe you should look at yourself. In particular in our country anyone raising a voice against Israel policies will be labelled as antisemite or a self hating jew. Labelling others is dangerous as history has shown us...saying that Arabs are this or Arabs are that is as dangerous as saying that Jews are this or Jews are that. My two pences!

Israeli_guy  06/13/2010 02:29 PM Report

This guy is a nutcase but I am happy he is officially willing to accept a two-state solution. But it is clear he does not understand Israelis or the US and uses this Arab logic of tearing down the other side without being self-critical and being absoloutely honest. But it is better than what we had for the past 60 years.

robdverity  06/06/2010 02:46 PM Report

Zack - hear, hear. Well said. If Israel were a REAL friend and ally they would, like penitent lover, concede that our relationship is detrimental to each other, to world stability and world peace, and severe it starting with refusal of all financial and military aid. They are prob. economically better off than we are anyway. Perhaps they could consider repayment.

Ole Ben is one helluva party-line rationalizer. He's on a Israeli Kool-aid high. They could crap in his Post Toasties and he would brag about the aroma, while consuming it with relish.

Zack  06/06/2010 02:40 PM Report

@ Spelltierri: Palestinians for two decades refused to endorse the resolution because of its implicit recognition of Israel. But the Palestinian National Council finally did so in its Declaration of Independence on Nov. 15, 1988. Moreover the Arab Peace Initiative recognizes Israel. Israel thanks to the USA has rejected UN resolutions after UN resolutions.

Listen Israel can act the way it wants for its security and the well being of his citizens. No problem with that but It should be without our support. Israel is becoming more and more a burden for the USA. I will prefer that the billions of aids we are sending to this country to be redirected to our folks back home.

I have been to Israel and saw from my own eyes the extent of the inhumanity of the occupation.

For the sake of the Israelis and the Palestinians the occupation should end. Israel is the fourth army in the world and the security card does not stand. Israel is facing mainly an unarmed population. Checkpoints, blockade, daily humiliation will not bring peace but just sustain the circle of violence.

Israel should be made accountable for its actions. Strategically this blind relationship we have with Israel does not make sense.

BENEZRAA  06/06/2010 02:31 AM Report

ZACK, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BELIEF AND FACT IS THAT BELIEF MAY NOT NECESSARILY CORRESPOND TO REALITY, HOWEVER STRONGLY THAT BELIEF IS HELD.

You say that if 300 million Arabs really wanted to destroy Israel, it would have taken Israel longer than six days to stop them. Yet reality is reality, and in Six Days, Israel did stop them. It is fitting to mention this today, as today is June 6, the anniversary of the commencement of the Six Day War. Let us hope and pray that the "Rachel Corrie" docks safely in Israel under Israeli protection, that no one is hurt in any way, and that Rachel Corrie's legacy will be that humanitarian was delivered promptly into Gaza. May safe harbor and humanitarian aid mark June 6 an anniversary of peace and not only of war.

spellettieri  06/04/2010 05:25 PM Report

Zack,

UN resolution 242 calls for land to be returned only if it doesn't compromise Israel's peace and security. When has it ever been the case that the Arabs or Palestinians have truly recognized Israel and it's right to exist? You saw it here yourself, Charlie asked the Hamas schmuck if he was willing to change their charter (which does not recognize Israel, calls ALL the land theirs and advocates killing jews) and he said NO!

Furthermore in the case where land and authority has been transferred to the Palestinians they have shown to restraint on terrorism or anti-Israel and anti-semitic propaganda. Why would Israel or anyone else in their situation even consider this as a viable option? It's suicide.

LawrenceA  06/04/2010 03:19 AM Report

Wow! Thank you for that thorough, tough interview Mr Rose. It was a breath of pure oxygen to hear Hamas from its own mouth rather through the various filters or various political and media operations. My wish is that you show this interview to President Obama and as many member of Congress as possible because I believe shows that peace in the region and more security for all concerned, including ourselves, is not only possible, but likely if we follow a few simple steps. One, we must respect Hamas at least, as part of the Palestinian leadership. Two, take President Carter's advice and not wait for Israel to outline negotiations and demands but we must talk with ALL parties and WE must set out the guidelines fair to ALL.

If Hamas says it is willing to respect the borders of the 1967 map why on Earth are we not pushing that? If Israel will not accept those borders we should demand they do and condition future aid on their acceptance because it means peace and security for all. I might understand Israel's reluctance to accept Palestine as the capital of a Palestinian state because they have historical interests there also. So why not tell Palestine AND Israel that because both have interests, as well as Christians, that it become a U.N. protectorate, a country of the world and open to all?

Then if an agreement is brokered perhaps a U.N. peacekeeping force could be deployed to make sure no attacks occur from either side for a limited time - long enough for a new generation of Israelis and Palestinians to grow up alongside each other in peace and dignity.

Can you imagine the results of such a situation? Peace in the Middle East, an end to much of the fighting there, security for us at home, security for Israeli's, Security for Palestinians and respect for the ideals that made our Nation that could be a positive force for positive change in the world? It's breathtaking and this interview shows it is possible.

Zack  06/02/2010 04:44 PM Report

ATTN BENEZRAA

Let's bring facts and let's stick to facts would you. You write in a way as if Israel was surrounded by 300 Millions angry Arabs that want its destruction. Believe me if that was the real case It would have taken more than 6 days for Israel to stop them. When you say that the Arabs and I quote " do not recognized Israel or it's existential right" and this is simply a lie. The Arabs Peace Initiative states:

"(a) Complete withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the 4 June 1967 line and the territories still occupied in southern Lebanon; (b) Attain a just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees to be agreed upon in accordance with the UN General Assembly Resolution No 194. (c) Accept the establishment of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since 4 June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital. In return the Arab states will do the following: (a) Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over, sign a peace agreement with Israel, and achieve peace for all states in the region; (b) Establish normal relations with Israel within the framework of this comprehensive peace."

The Arab initiave has been like countless UN resolution (like resolution 242) rejected by Israel and by the USA.

Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinians territories and you are expecting this population to just accept this reality and not do anything about it? History has shown that any form of occupation, colonization is a failure and bring bloodshed. If you truly care about Israel then Israel should stop the occupation...It is MORALLY wrong and put in danger the state of Israel.

Israel is the fourth army in the World and there are strong links between the Pentagon and the Military industrialist complex in Israel. This is an industry of several billions of Dollars and a way of controlling other states or so called ennemys. This is a reality. With all due respect to the people of Israel I don't consider them more important to any other human being in our relationship with them. Tibetans are surrounded by a billion of Chinese Why are we not providing them with the same aid? This logic is in my view absurd. And if we (the USA) truly care about Israel then our aid should not be a blind diplomatic, military and economic support to them but a serious and fair diplomatic mediator.

Now If you have to quote me then do it properly...I said that our relationship to the Arab World (Muslim and Christians because Palestinian Christians are suffering the same way as their muslim counterpart in the occupied territories) has to be rethought. Since our blind support to Israel the image of the United States has fallen terribly in the Arab World and for one good reason: We are the one constantly blocking any UN resolution with our veto.

Israel for me should be treated like any other state i.e. we should be tough with them when we deem their actions contrary to our values and interests. So far Israel is the country who is acting with arrogance and naivety NOT me!

robdverity  06/02/2010 01:06 PM Report

Tolerate a half century of degradation, murder and living in your own excrement and then see if you think it is trivial. Your outrage is as fatuous as your immaterial rant against Christians - which BTW I agree with.

waynebensonofchico  06/02/2010 04:44 AM Report

This man mistakes the work marter for murderer. Killing of innocent people is murder now matter what rashionale you try to put on it. Non-Violence is the only path at which peace can be achieved. A wall full of murderers is not something to be proud of, it is a matter of shame. It is a twisted form of logic that does not stand ground. Those that destroy human life cannot be an advocate of human life. Why is it that the entire United State can get along yet those of Israel and Palestine are constantly at each others throat. They have not risen to the level of maturity of Americans. We are far more advanced morally and can only hope Isreal and Palestine can be above the childish ways of stomping burning flags and shooting guns in the air. God would be ashamed of you all. Grow up!

BENEZRAA  06/02/2010 03:58 AM Report

ATTN: Robdverity, RE - "ISRAELI SOLDIERS TESTIFY TO WAR CRIMES"

You have sunk to a level of vulgarity and exaggeration in this and in other recent comments that challenge tolerance. You take a little truth (not to say the particular truth is non-trivial) and then concoct a disgusting dish out of it. It is one thing to acknowledge the wrongdoing of a few; it is another to exaggerate that wrongdoing to a whole population. A handful or several handfuls or even many events occurred by some Israeli troops in Gaza. This does not change the minority nature of these events, nor does it make the entire nation of Israel baby killers and murderers. You seem to expect Israel to walk on water or not walk at all. My guess is that you are or were raised Catholic and that you expect Israel to be a nation of Jesus Christs. You may even think that Israel only has the right to exist by being a nation of Jesus Christs. I'm going to guess as well that you have similar expectations of the USA. Catholics and Christians tend to believe that Jesus Christ was both the Son of God and God Himself. This may create some confusion to Catholics, since Jesus was Jewish, therefore anyone claiming to be a Jew must be able to walk on water. Sorry, no such luck. I never met anyone, Jew, Catholic, other Christian, who ever walked on water (with the exception of one man I know, who dressed up like Jesus and walked barefoot on the frozen surface of a lake just as it was beginning to melt so that the photo made him look like Jesus walking on water surrounded by a cloud). Give Israel, the USA, and yourself a break!

BENEZRAA  06/02/2010 03:33 AM Report

ATTN: ZACK, RE - HUMAN RIGHTS AND MORAL HIGH GROUND

Moral high ground in any war of attrition is no easy thing to measure, especially when and where information is restricted. There are also cultural norms that define morality. Israel is not perfect by any means. Yet the miracle in Israel is that, despite the constant state of hyper-vigilance that exists due to unending war, human rights far outweigh abuses of human rights. Can the same thing be said of Gaza and Hamas? Quite the opposite, as the Hamas culture is not based on human rights. Hamas culture is based on totalitarian devotion to Jihad. Also, with respect to your self-blame regarding Jewish failure to get along with the Arabs, stating, "Our relationship to the whole world has to be rethought because so far we have failed miserably [for] the whole world to see:" Here you show your arrogance and your naivety, thinking that Israel alone determines the outcome of things. Has it occurred to you that Israel is surrounded by 300-million Muslim Arabs that do not recognized Israel or it's existential right? May we give the Arabs some credit for the failure of Israeli-Arab relations? Even according to the Koran, have the Arabs done the best they can to respect and guard the "People of the Book" [Jews and Christians}? If you do not acknowledge that an enemy exists, having his own mind bent towards your destruction, you will never grant yourself the right to self-defense.

robdverity  06/01/2010 09:12 PM Report

"Israeli Soldiers Testify to War Crimes

The PulsePosted March 19, 2009 - 10:01am "During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive," Ha'aretz reported today.

At a lecture at a pre-military academy Israeli soldiers and officers gave personal accounts of murder and brutality.

Ofer Shelah in Ma'ariv:

"For the first time since the end of Operation Cast Lead, testimonies have come to the fore of soldiers and officers from different units that took part in the operation. The testimonies . . . paint a harsh picture, very different from the IDF reports: Killing people who were clearly identified as innocent, driving families out of their homes to the open area where a policy was in force according to which whoever remained in the area was not an innocent person and could be shot, acts of vandalism and destroying property and humanitarian supplies, and an atmosphere in which the combatants understood that all this was permitted, and would not be investigated." Phosphorous shells used on schools.

It's easy to see why Israel is our ally, as we love to brutalize our young as well. We're both equal parts chicken shit.

Surely Beelzebub slobberingly awaits us both.

Israel is a baby burning bunch of bastards. A cowardice beyond redemption - just as we are. We're each hell on wheels when we have a techno-advantage. Israel tanks and planes etc, Ships and helicopters and comic book heroes rappelling down on ships of civilians.

Zack  06/01/2010 08:02 PM Report

Spelletierri,

to your information I want to watch at everything, I listen to what Dershowitz has to say, Nethanyahu, benni Morris, gideon Levy, Amira Haas, Edward Said, Noam Finkelstein, Chomski, etc.

If you have relevant sources based on facts and not on propaganda then I am glad to listen or read it.

Now I am not saying that the Palestinian authorithy, Hamas or many Arab regimes (corrupted and maintain in power by our government by the way) are not to be blamed. Abu Mazen is in my view a puppet and not strong enough to defend the rights of his people.

However my focus is on teh actions of the US government and of Israel because those are the strongest side that could make things possible. The whole international community has condemned Israel in countless UN resolution. Without our veto Israel will not act so arrogantly and blindly.

Re the Taliban (let's remember the role of the CIA in creating them against the soviet), Al Qaeda need to be fought but not by acting like Cowboys and going to Afghanistan or Irak (Occupation is in itself violence and we are paying the price of it). Israel is not at war with Hamas...Israel is thanks to the US the fourth largest army in the World, are you seriously considering Hamas a danger to the existence of Israel with their home made rockets and kalashnikovs? Come on let's be serious... Israel has the power to wipe out completely Hamas and the Hezbollah...and we have seen the disproportionate use of violence Israel used against Lebanon and the open air prison that is Gaza.

It is time to rethink our interest as American re our support to Israel. History has proven that country act based principally on interest. Our relationship with the Arab World has to be rethought because so far we have failed miserably to the whole World to see.

Our country is in a terrible state and I dont want us to follow blindly the absurdity of the Nethanyahu government. If Israel wants to act arrogantly then It should be on its own. Israel should act responsibly towards itself, stop the occupation of the Palestinians and work closely with the International community. No country should be above International laws (several times violated by Israel without any sanction thanks to the USA).

spellettieri  06/01/2010 07:04 PM Report

Zack,

btw here is a link from your b'tselem that you may not want to see:

http://www.btselem.org/English/Inter_Palestinian_Violations/20100520_Gaza_Executions.asp

spellettieri  06/01/2010 07:03 PM Report

By the way, is there any difference between the US war against Al qaeda and the Taliban and Israel's war with Hamas? I dont think so. The US and Israel are allies and that wont change. Its quite clear that the villains are the jihadis

spellettieri  06/01/2010 07:01 PM Report

Hey Zack,

When does Israel fire rockets at civilians? or encourage its kids to strap bombs to their chests? Or go shoot kids walking to school?

Just because there are some misguided left wing Israelis out there doesnt mean everything they say is true

Zack  06/01/2010 06:43 PM Report

Spelletierri hold your breath Israel has lost the moral high ground. Information is widely available on the Internet. One can just watch and read the work of the Israeli human rights organization in the occupied territories to understand that Israel is deeply in the wrong:

http://www.btselem.org/English/

If Israel wants to continue in this insanity It should be without the support of the USA.

spellettieri  06/01/2010 06:24 PM Report

I cant stand to listen to this guy's lies;

1. Our war is not against the Jews- LIAR!

Hamas Charter Article 7:

The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them)

2. Israel is the obstacle to peace? Liar! They removed their citizens from Gaza and gave the Palestinians the opportunity for self-rule to all that land. Hamas' reaction was to fire rockets at civilians. This is what led to the siege. It was put in place only AFTER Hamas repeatedly attacked Israel.

3. Hamas would accept the 1967 borders? LIAR! Article 15 Hamas charter: When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad.

4. We want Israel to allow us to practice our democracy?!? LIAR! - Israel pulled out of Gaza and had no intention of interfering with it. However it was Hamas that ran all of it political opponents out of the region.

Zack  06/01/2010 06:20 PM Report

As expected many voices here are condemning Mr. Meshaal. And I would not like to say "pro-Israel" because the comments against this interview are for me anti-peace and anti israel. We can play with rethoric for many years and we have been doing so since 1948. It is time to find a real solution to this problem which is affecting the whole world.

I truly find astonishing particularly in the United States hhow many people have little understanding of this conflict aand are using sound bites and noises. The guy could not have been more clear in his stands whereas Nethanyahu governement has made blunders after blunders leaving less and less possibility for a peaceful solution.

Israel is simply on the road of catastrophy. I am for a peaceful state of Israel but not at the expenses of the dignity and livelihood of the Palestinians and against our own interests. We are in the USA giving financial, diplomatic and military aid to Israel. Is that really in our interest?

Now I know that some people will attack my comments therefore I urge anyone wanting to know more about the topic and make their own mind on the topic by watching the debate between Noam Chomsky and Alan Dershowitz:

http://vimeo.com/10646695

Finally the attack on the gaza flotilla yesterday reminds me of the attack by Israel on our own servicemen in 1967. You can watch this documentary by the BBC (surely Fox News would never have produced it):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311#

Time for a real CHANGE President Obama...we have not elected you to do business as usual especially in this region. Too much is at stake for our own sake, the sake of the Israelis and palestinians and many other countries.

I am not a self hating jew or an anti semite but one tired of the endless justification of violence by way too many. If Israel wants to continue on this road of shame It should be without us.

Farewell.

spellettieri  06/01/2010 06:00 PM Report

They're very proud of their martyrs??!?! why does charlie rose waste his time with this criminal? The palestinians dont deserve a state if they behave like this and Israel should have dropped a bomb on this guy

spellettieri  06/01/2010 05:53 PM Report

This so-called leader should be in jail. Hamas is behind countless attacks on civilians. They encourage their youth to strap bombs to themselves or fire rockets at innocent people. They disgust me

robdverity  06/01/2010 04:48 PM Report

Hope at least one participant tonite has an unvetted opinion bold enough to depart from the party line pablum, namely that our "ally" can do no wrong. Elstwise why bother?

robdverity  06/01/2010 04:08 PM Report

Good point re embargoes. The so-called "international blockade" is just barely. One other nation involved: Egypt (and they appear to be craw-fishing). Tantamount to say France and Belgium unilaterally blockading a third country. If it were Israel the squealing of a stuck pig would never be heard.

In other words Israel likes the extant rule: might makes right. The arrogant bully wins.

Will they have to honor the same rule in the future: demographic power makes right; or nuclear power makes right?

Their murderous arrogance will tend to blunt any sympathy.

charlizecourriers  06/01/2010 03:57 PM Report

It us absolutely farcical for Rose to ask Khaled Meshaal to "renounce violence." Perhaps if Rose had gone to Vietnam instead of law school and graduate school, he might have a better understanding of such nonsense. The future is very obvious-one state is coming. I saw it coming in Vietnam and I see it coming in Palestine.

REMant  06/01/2010 11:47 AM Report

While it would be nice to be able to confine this conflict to territory, and especially to only that lost in 1967, and I suppose it is at least good strategy to remove religion from it, it neglects the change in both sides from decades ago, and the fact that most of the religious problem lies outside of Palestine, as can clearly be seen from the kind of comments any criticism of Israel brings in forums like this. If other countries were to be removed from the equation, I'm sure issues might be settled much more quickly and easily, although probably not as Israel might wish, and especially not if it continues to do things like it did Sunday night. Gaza is becoming Israel's Guantanamo. This business of embargoing belligerents is hardly settled law either, and the US has fairly consistently been against it historically.

Agente99  06/01/2010 03:22 AM Report

Mega kudos to Charlie for bring us this interview! Regardless of what your personal view is on the politics of the region, understanding all sides is the only way to find a solution to the problems they face. Knowledge is power.

Christopher  06/01/2010 03:16 AM Report

I thought it was a great interview. It nice to see all sides of this puzzle of a political "problem".

I think the question is, will Hamas dissolve after a peace process or will they continue to exist as a surrogate Syria. That is the main argument of Israel. A legitimate concern.

Great question by Charlie confronting the difficulty of Isreal negociating with Fatah when Hamas controls Gaza.

I think Meshaal is incorrect in its assessment of its analysis of the Palestinian election. Their election is not really legit since they control (win or lose the election) some of the use of force in Palestine. This is not a legitimate election. Hamas overstates its legitimacy. And why can't Hamas recognize Israel. I am so sick of this. Meshaal can't say it, why. His arguments are so weak...

They have to leave the negotiation to Abbas and accept whatever the result is in a referendum; that is it.

Another thing, that translator really sucks.

However, Meshaal's cataloguing of Israel's attacks in Palestine is extremely compelling in painting Hamas as a resister reacting to military aggression. He was a little bit funny when he asked for the US to give Hamas better weapons to avoid Israeli civilian casualties. No. It was really funny.

I could write for hours.

Clearly, Hamas is a terrorist organization like the IRA was, and the Occupation of Palestine is not legit, and I do not see how inviting Hamas will help the negociation as Meshaal is not negociable. There, try to solve that! IT is hopeless.

One more thing, his analogy with Egypt and the Yom Kippur war was pretty good. As Abbas is getting absolutely nowhere.

And Charlie, how'd you like being called Mister Charlie? I love it. Great interview.

NeilMacCallister  06/01/2010 03:09 AM Report

Oh, I just don't know, ..maybe everybody really does just want to have a war.

I mean last week, the Syrian president Bashir al-Assad was here on Mr. Roses' show to tell us all how much he is partnered to that embargo-barging "friendly, peace-loving" Turkey, ..as well as to all the other friendly, peace-loving countries who shout "Deatrh to America" in their public squares, and who tell the United Nations that their national "joie de vivre" is but to "wipe (democratic) Israel off the map".

Greece and Thailand are already in flames, ..Europe is crumbling, ..the Chineese will all die of lung cancer, ..and the Americans are all still too worried about how to stop that damn Gulf oil leak without having to blow-up BP's chance at a lucrative oil find.

Simon Cowell has just left American Idol, ..and Iranian scientists have a new nuclear weapon to share with the rest of the world!

Didn't North Korea prematurely jump up last month and scream out "Surprise!" to the South Korean Navy???

Is there just no discipline left in the world?????

*****

Okay, ..everybody together now, ..on three:

"Boom goes London, ..boom Paris,

Oh how peaceful, ..it will be.."

BENEZRAA  06/01/2010 12:32 AM Report

re: Fiorengella COMMENTS IN REPLY TO MINE -

Either you saw only the title of my comment regarding the Avi Mamara Incident, or you deliberately ignored the facts, preferring instead to argue your bias, that "Israel took the bait." I shall presume that you only saw the title and wrote from a perspective unfiltered by either the many news reports or the belly of my comment.

There were six ships that set off from Cyprus. Five of those ships accepted Israel's promise to deliver the aid, and so five of those ships willingly were taken to the Israeli port of Ashdod. These five ships proved that their intent was purely humanitarian to provide material and spiritual aid to suffering Gaza. In this way Israel did say, if I may quote you, "Yes, thank you, welcome, the people of Gaza need the assistance of the world...."

This was a necessary condition that Israel did meet; however, not all six ships flotilla ships met this condition, as the sixth ship chose to run the blockade as it's primary mission, choosing not to provide the humanitarian aid. It was the sixth ship, the "Avi Mamara", that forced an incident, although it did not force Israel's hand. Israel did what it had to do, and did it with minimal collateral damage. As a military operation, it was a success. As a political operation, it may prove to have been Israel's only option.

As far as whether or not Erdogan of Turkey does or not have anything to gain as a result of pretext provided by this "Avi Mamara Incident", it does not take a genius to see that, when slicing through the onion layers of political organization, Erdogan may have plausible deniabilty (opposition party, etc). My own instinct says to follow the money and to look at the results.

Deeper instinct tells me that something more profound is going on in the Muslim world than growing sympathy for Hamas and Hezbollah. My guess is that from Turkey to Syria to Iran, there is a reason for their increasing consolidation. My guess is that the reason spells "N-U-K-E".

This Memorial Day we had better sober up in the West. "Time Has Come Today...." [Chambers Brothers]

As to your insults to Israeli mentality in your concluding paragraph, you may find humor in painting the Israeli mind the way you did. If there is an irony, it may be that your own salvation may come from the Israeli mind. It certainly will not come from your own mind nor from the mind of those you applaud such as Meshaal. You can be sure that both al-Assad and Meshaal both know only too well that Israel has no illusions with respect to their logical intellect. My guess is that the USA has no such illusions, either.

BENEZRAA  05/31/2010 11:37 PM Report

RE: COMMENTS OF betz55 -

(1) Khaled Meshaal did NOT say that Hamas would be willing to recognize Israel along 1967 borders. He said that Hamas would "accept" Israel returning to 1967 borders, promising neither acceptance of the remaining State of Israel, nor to renounce the Hamas Charter calling for Israel's annihilation. The only promise Meshaal made was, that after Israel withdrew to 1967 borders, then a plebiscite would occur in the new Palestinian [Jewish Free] entity as to whether or not to acknowledge Israel.

(2) Zionism does not have the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Israel as it's definition. As Martin Luther King, Jr. famously said, "Those who equate Zionism with racism, who say it is not Jews but it is Israel that they oppose, are themselves racists against Jews; to be anti-Zionist is to be anti-Jewish"

[paraphrase mine]. Zionism welcome anyone, who wants to live in freedom and respect democracy, who does not confuse democracy with oppressive rule disrespecting of human rights. Take the measure of rights in Israel v. rights in any Arab hegemony, and with no exception, Israel is the only bastion of freedom in the Middle East.

(3) AL-NAKBA is an holiday that in any other country would be regarded as treasonous. AL-NAKBA regards the existence of Israel as a catastrophe and calls for Israel's annihilation, doing so proximal to Israel Independence Day.

It is not a mere goading or insult to Israel, as it is tied in with militant warfare and terror against Israel. Lieberman does not have an acceptable solution, but, he is quite right to call the question.

(4) You are not "pro-Palestinian" as you say you are, you are anti-Jewish and pro-Arab, as are all who deny that Jews by definition are Palestinians with indigenous and historical rights to the Holy Land. Study history. The very name "Palestine" was given to Israel to humiliate Israel by the ancient Romans as a policy of the Roman Occupation of Israel. Modern Britain chose to use this same terminology during it's occupation from WW1 to WW2. It may appear convenient to deny Jews their Palestinian identity, and Israel is as responsible for accepting this semantic failure as is the world at large.

Be that as it may, when it comes to Middle East balance, your views are clearly as unbalanced as is the anti-Israel, anti-Jewish world at large, which you applaud -- unbalanced against Israel. You say HAMAS isn't going away and was democratically elected. But it's election was hardly democratic. HAMAS got into power through brutality, much as Hitler's "Brownshirts" paved the way for Hitler and Nazism. You cannot refute that no Islamic nation or movement today or in the past hundred years has been tolerant of Jews, Christians, Bahai, Buddhists, Atheists, or any other religious group - with the possible exception of Turkey, which is now being undermined by it's own Islamist movement. Not only are you anti-Jewish, you are also anti -democratic. Either you don't understand the meaning of democracy, or you deliberately seek to undermine it. What worries me is that you and those like you may well succeed. I don't want to see the Western Wall crumble, nor do I want to see the Statue of Liberty buried in the sand.

seeingyou  05/31/2010 09:27 PM Report

When Charlie speaks in this interview, the audio quality is excellent, with the volume of the interpreter very low so we can hear everything Charlie says. But when Mr. Meshaal speaks, two very strange things happen:

1. Mr. Meshaal's voice sounds like he is talking in the shower, even though he and Charlie are face to face in the same room, and

2. The volume of both the interpreter and Mr. Meshaal are at the same high volume, making it very hard to hear what is being said.

If the goal of your show is for the audience to hear both sides of the interview, then that did not happen in this instance.

agave  05/31/2010 07:34 PM Report

Excellent. Every American should listen to what Mr. Meshaal has to say. As an American citizen, I do not support the Zionist agenda nor our government's support of it. This conversation is long overdue.

mhprimack  05/31/2010 06:41 PM Report

I commend you on the presentation. However, consider when using an interpreter to lower the voice of the interviewee and raise the voice of the interpreter. It would far more understandable and the message get across better.

betz55  05/31/2010 05:26 PM Report

Thanks Charlie for the succint questioning of Mr. Meshaal. I'm sure the usual hasbarists will be at the cubicles typing away frantically to accuse all who want a more balanced ME of being pro-Palestinain. Count me in.

And Hamas isn't going to go away. It was a democratically elected body. And Israel only has itself to blame, it ignors the fact that Israel helped Hamas rise in the 1980s to defeat the PLO and then when the PLO ceased being effective advocates for its people, it embraced it and sidelined Hamas.

Zionism is the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians from ‘Jewish’ land. You can’t accuse Hamas while ignoring all the right wingers, like Lieberman, in Israel who call for the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. Israeli's are hypocrites and not very good ones at that.

Lieberman, that Moldavian thug of an FM is an idiot and a nut. A Moldovan thug who emigrated into Israel and now wants to ethnically clean Isreal of the Palestinian-Israelis whose families have been there for hundreds of years.

He is an explicit racist whose fascist political party, Yisrael Beiteinu, recently proposed that Israeli Arabs should be banned, on the grounds of “national unity,” from commemorating the 1948 Naqba, or Catastrophe, when they lost their homes and homeland in the war that led to the establishment of the state of Israel.

If an extremist with Lieberman’s profile rose to power in Europe, Israelis wouldn’t hesitate to characterize him as a neo-Nazi.

Those of you with good memories will remember that Bibi when he was last prime minister, approved the assassination of Khaled Meshal in Jordan. The method was quite similar to the way in which Mahmoud al Mabhouh was killed in Dubai by the Mossad. In the former case, a team of Mossad agents accosted Meshal in the street and injected his ear with a slow-acting poison.

On his death, it would’ve appeared he had had a heart attack, which was precisely the same outcome in Dubai.

The only problem with the attempt on Meshal was the agents were captured, a major international row ensued, and Bibi was forced to provide an antidote or risk his spies facing trial and incarceration in Jordan.

Hamas/Meshal has said now they are willing to recognize Israel along the 1967 borders. Israel has repeated turned down or sabotaged efforts at peace. Given Israel's overwhelming military advantage, now seen in the Flotilla debacle, the constant complaining about Arabs wanting to wipe Israel off the map lacks credibility.

DavLev  05/31/2010 04:59 PM Report

Why in heavens name this person would be interviewed on US TV is frankly beyond me? Charlie Rose demeans himself, and his audience by giving him such a huge audience.

Now look what Hamas has wrought, the unnecessary deaths and injuries to so many people, in what I call, "Flotilla gate".

It was obvious from the get go that this entire project was designed for PR purposes, to deligitimize Israel as an entity. It's like the Chinese water torture or death of 1,000 cuts, each little drop or cut moves the entire experiment towards total disaster.

Israel is in a state of war with the people the interviewee applauds. Hamas took over the Strip after Israel withdrew it's forces and dismantled it's 22 settlements and manufacturing plants, hoping for a miracle, some sort of

movement towards peace. Instead it got thousands of rockets fired onto it's territory.

Rather than using the settlement areas and plants (purchased by Americans for Hamas to use), it turned them into military training enclaves for terrorism against Israel.

Hamas is defined as a terrorist organization by or State Dept and not recognized by many countries. Yet this man, headquarted in Syria is allowed a forum to spout his

lies and half-truths.

The flotilla could have docked in Ashdod, an Israeli port,been unloaded, and participated in the supplies going purportedly to the residents of the Strip. Instead, they

chose to break the blockade and attack the navy personnel

who had warned them beforehand. The result was predicted.

As long as Hamas and it's leaders do not recognize the State of Israel, and encourage it's destruction, there will never be peace between these parties.

We should also remember how Hamas came into power, the result of the murder of over 150 members of Fatah, their opposing force in the Gaza Strip, in some cases throwing them off rooftops.

To allow the leader access to PBS, is unacceptable to

everyone who really strives for peace between Jew and Arab,

as envisioned by Bibi Netanyahu's red lines: two state, living side by side in peace, no division of Jerusalem, a demilitarized Pales state, no so-called right of return of the offspring of Muslims who left the area but proper relocation to the Palestinian state, and the dismantling

of Hamas's infrastructure and disarming of their over 50,000 soldiers.

Fiorangela  05/31/2010 03:34 PM Report

posting as I listen: "people listening say, "don't call us Nazis."

jeebus, grow up charlie.

wa wa wa, you called me names.

So I kill you.

Fiorangela  05/31/2010 03:32 PM Report

Ben Ezra, you posted,

"THE "MAVI MAMARA" INCIDENT - A PROPAGANDA VICTORY FOR HAMAS, OR A PRETEXT FOR TURKEY TO SEVER RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL?"

Israel forced the issue; Israel took the bait: how much more brilliant would it have been for Israel to have said, "Yes, thank you, welcome, the people of Gaza need the assistance of the world...." That would have stolen the thunder of the flotilla.

Erdogan had nothing to gain from this flotilla: the Turkish sponsors of flotilla were from the party that opposes Erdogan, and an election in Turkey is coming soon.

Perhaps Bibi was not aware of this? ha

Thus, it must be concluded that Israel figured that ISRAEL stood to gain from ratcheting up the tension; it is not unlikely that Israel plans or will soon mount an attack on Turkey or Lebanon, and use this incident as a 'provocation.'

btw, CR reflects the stuck-in-the-mud Israel psyche: wa wa wa, recognize Israel.

al-Assad and Meshaal think logically and rationally, not from a holocaust-ptsd-induced psychosis, as does Israel and CR. Israel is out of sync with the Enlightened world. Ironic for the smartest people in the whole universe.

Fiorangela  05/31/2010 03:24 PM Report

In this interview as in CR's interview with al-Assad, Charlie is stuck on "gotta recognize Israel."

The problem is not anybody else "recognizing Israel," the problem is that Israelis do not recognize who or what Israel is. Israel is suffering a massive identity crisis, that Israelis are working out in a psychotic fashion, like a manic-depressive in an out-of-control, murderous rage.

Fiorangela  05/31/2010 03:19 PM Report

Where is the American Erdogan? Where is the Israeli al-Assad?

robdverity  05/31/2010 02:19 PM Report

Zowie, it's hard to distinguish the arrogance from the rationalization. I'm sure Israel would be oh so sanguine and placid with a unilateral blockade of their borders. Damned cheeky of the Pals to not cheer their own impoverishment. Israel's kill ratio again increased to their blood-thirsty insatiability - drip, drip: 15:0 in this incident alone. Think what it would be if they weren't such a peace-loving tribe.

It warms the cockles of my heart when I see my taxes go to finance a state that will ultimately be the lynch-pin to a near or total apocalyptic outcome. How can it not happen. Israel kills 15 or so humans and portray themselves as the victim. With chutzpah of that quality we don't nor should we (as a species) deserve to survive.

So agree with assertion this could be the beginning of a string of incidents that lead to a much larger conflict. Well why not? Israeli's by nature would love it and could well be provoking it intentionally. It would be some reason (rationale) behind their irrational act. The US is too obtuse not to plunge head-long with their "ally" into a prolonged world-wide decline. Even with a military victory (the kind Israeli's GET-OFF on), the long term strategic value will put us both where we belong. In the world toilet. Murderers sometimes (tho not enuff) get what they deserve.

BENEZRAA  05/31/2010 12:54 PM Report

THE "MAVI MAMARA" INCIDENT - A PROPAGANDA VICTORY FOR HAMAS, OR A PRETEXT FOR TURKEY TO SEVER RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL?

Six "Peace Flotilla" ships made their way from Cyprus towards Gaza. Intercepted by the Israeli Navy, five of those ships willingly accepted re-direction to the Israeli port of Ashdod, where the relief items would be distributed into Gaza via normal existing channels such as the UN, Red Cross, etc.

The sixth ship refused and instead violently resisted boarding by the Israeli Navy. There will be enquiries into who fired first, who is telling the truth, did the Israelis fire the first shots or did the the "peaceful civilians" fire first, were there weapons aboard ship as the Israelis claim or were they planted, as Hamas will claim.

The bottom line is that the sixth ship flew under a Turkish flag, most of the participants on board are Turkish, most of the dead are Turkish, and the strongest political reaction against the Israeli raid on the uncooperative ship named the "Mavi Mamara" came from Turkey.

Turkey has increasingly been changing from a secular society towards a Muslim regime. Where Israel and Turkey once had common ground with respect to secular rights and religious and democratic freedoms, Turkey's secular democracy is under Muslim political siege. Relations between Israel and Turkey have suffered badly in the past two years especially, and relations between Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Russia have strengthened, and Lebanon is already a foregone Hezbollah conclusion. A Fertile Crescent of Terror now ranges all the way from Turkey to Iran, Iran being only a few heartbeats away from possessing atomic weaponry.

If "peace" was the objective of this flotilla, five of the ships fulfilled that mission and purpose. The sixth ship has provoked an international incident and more likely than not has moved the Middle East another notch towards war, an all inclusive war that could make all the previous wars look like bar-room brawls in comparison.

For HAMAS this is a victory. After all, for HAMAS, what on Earth can be more desired than Jihad and Martyrdom? It is their "Raison d'Etre".

BENEZRAA  05/31/2010 12:52 PM Report

THE "MAVI MAMARA" INCIDENT - A PROPAGANDA VICTORY FOR HAMAS OR A PRETEXT FOR TURKEY TO SEVER RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL?

Six "Peace Flotilla" ships made their way from Cyprus towards Gaza. Intercepted by the Israeli Navy, five of those ships willingly accepted re-direction to the Israeli port of Ashdod, where the relief items would be distributed into Gaza via normal existing channels such as the UN, Red Cross, etc.

The sixth ship refused and instead violently resisted boarding by the Israeli Navy. There will be enquiries into who fired first, who is telling the truth, did the Israelis fire the first shots or did the the "peaceful civilians" fire first, were there weapons aboard ship as the Israelis claim or were they planted, as Hamas will claim.

The bottom line is that the sixth ship flew under a Turkish flag, most of the participants on board are Turkish, most of the dead are Turkish, and the strongest political reaction against the Israeli raid on the uncooperative ship named the "Mavi Mamara" came from Turkey.

Turkey has increasingly been changing from a secular society towards a Muslim regime. Where Israel and Turkey once had common ground with respect to secular rights and religious and democratic freedoms, Turkey's secular democracy is under Muslim political siege. Relations between Israel and Turkey have suffered badly in the past two years especially, and relations between Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Russia have strengthened, and Lebanon is already a foregone Hezbollah conclusion. A Fertile Crescent of Terror now ranges all the way from Turkey to Iran, Iran being only a few heartbeats away from possessing atomic weaponry.

If "peace" was the objective of this flotilla, five of the ships fulfilled that mission and purpose. The sixth ship has provoked an international incident and more likely than not has moved the Middle East another notch towards war, an all inclusive war that could make all the previous wars look like bar-room brawls in comparison.

For HAMAS this is a victory. After all, for HAMAS, what on Earth can be more desired than Jihad and Martyrdom? It is their "Raison d'Etre".

BENEZRAA  05/31/2010 03:53 AM Report

FOR THOSE CONSPIRACY FREAKS AMONGST YOU, WHO ARE CONVINCED THAT MR. ROSE IS WITHHOLDING THE KHALED MESHAAL TRANSCRIPT:

Has it occurred to you that in the USA it is the Memorial Day Weekend? Perhaps the transcript may not be available until after the Holiday? Or perhaps for some other human reason, the transcript may not be available quite as readily as you are accustomed to? You expect so much, you show so little respect, and you have such little appreciation of what you are so privileged to see and hear.

BENEZRAA  05/31/2010 03:10 AM Report

HAMAS MAKES CLEAR IT'S INTENT TO WAGE A NEVER ENDING WAR OF ANNIHILATION AGAINST ISRAEL.

Khaled Meshaal has made clear in his own words that HAMAS is ready and willing to see ISRAEL retreat gratuitously to 1967 borders, after which the "Palestinian People" (from which identity Jews have been excised) will then vote, whether or not to recognize ISRAEL; in the meantime HAMAS will not renounce and will continue to both promote and act according to it's Charter, which calls for Israel's annihilation and which regards any Jewish presence in the Holy Land as "occupation". He speaks of freedom and of respect for People's of all faiths, and yet, loudly and clearly, the world may perceive - by his words and by the HAMAS history of behavior - that HAMAS would make of the JUDEA-SAMARIA (the "West Bank") the same as it has made of Gaza, which is a right-wing, totalitarian bastion of Muslim Jihad.

This is the reality of Khaled Meshaal and HAMAS, despite his polemics to distance himself and HAMAS from the likes of Bin Laden and Al-Quaeda by claiming a philosophical distinction between the HAMAS movement and the GLOBAL JIHAD movement. It was an inconvenient thing for the HAMAS movement, that Bin Laden's Al-Quaeda flew those giant Molotov Cocktails

(in the form of fully gassed up passenger jets) into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. Khaled Meshaal may have condemned this act of terror against the USA; after all, the USA is the prime arbiter between ISRAEL and HAMAS, an arbiter, which time and time again has restrained ISRAEL with a tight leash. Yet, we in the USA must remember that the very same people, the Hamas constituency, which "democratically" elected HAMAS into power, cheered and danced in the street, joyous that America had been bloodied. Had these people a local majority in the USA, Nine-Eleven would have been an event more akin to Chrystal Nacht of Nazi Terror, rather than resembling Pearl Harbor in terms of action at a distance. And with reagards to that, the Japanese Navy attacked a military base (with some inevitable collateral damage), whereas Al-Quaeda attacked primarily civilians, the attack on the Pentagon being a minor but not trivial event that we Americans ought not remember lightly. America must remember that JIHADISTS make no distinction between civilians and military, when it comes to waging war, except that in their lexicon, all "infidels" are expendable.

There are those, whose biases strive to characterize Israel as like unto the Nazis. Contemporary Arab terrorists, who are the direct descendants of the Arab terrorists allied with the real Nazis, are painted either as glorious freedom fighters or as victims being bullied by Israel. History is distorted and trivialized, as it the Israelis, whose ancestors suffered so much historical victimization, most especially by the real Nazis. The supporters of such as Hamas and Hezbollah are free to speak, as long as they speak hatred against Israel and as long as their speech is designed to drive a wedge between the USA and Israel. And there are naive persons, whose sense of the meaning of Democracy begins and ends with the concept that majority rules absolutely. Such persons make no distinction between a real Democracy (which fully allows minority participation, protections, and rights) and a false democracy (which is a cover for totalitarian rule). Jews have no participation, protections, nor rights in the worlds of Hamas and Hezbollah (nor Fatah, for that matter). Nor in Lebanon, Sryia, etc. Yet in tiny little Israel there are almost two-million voting Arab Muslim citizens and they represent 20% of the Israeli electorate. By definition, neither in Muslim nations today, nor in Nazi Germany of yesterday, Jews have no rights, no protection, and no participation. Yet by convoluted logics and outright lies, Jews are accused by Jew-haters of prohibiting freedom of speech, as if doing so were within the ethos or the power of Jews to do so.

There is such sophomoric banter about the bloody Middle East and about Mr. Rose and his Broadcast that it takes utmost restraint to maintain a civil attitude, much as Israel will need to maintain a civil attitude over the next few days, as the so-called "Peace Flotilla" attempts to run the Israeli Blockade of Gaza with perhaps 10,000 tons of supplies for Gaza. Nazis would simply use U-boats to sink every boat in the Flotilla. The Israelis on the other hand will do everything they can to see the safety of the Flotilla, even as the Flotilla must and will be stopped from delivering contraband. There are so many willing, idealistic, ignorant, courageous persons being duped into participation in this Flotilla. They think they are there to bring food and other such support to Gaza. They are there amongst provocateurs, whose primary purpose is to spark an incident that can be blamed on Israel, perhaps even an incident so allegedly vile that another war can take place in which Israel will be blamed. At this moment Hezbollah, in addition to having thousand of rockets at the ready in souther Lebanon, has also dug in a Katyusha rocket base in Syria. Israel is fed up with Hamas and Hezbollah. Syria handles Hamas and Hezbollah for Iran.

In 2006 Hamas rocketed Israel every day with Qassam rockets. Then Gilad Shalit was kidnapped by Hamas, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev were kidnapped by Hezbollah, These kidnappings were the proximal cause to the 2006 Israel-Lebanon War. One wonders, as the "Peace Flotilla" makes it way towards Gaza shores, what exactly do Hamas and Hezbollah have in mind to spark the next war?