Charlie Rose

ibel  10/18/2009 07:49 AM Report

"2000years ago"?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08364a.htm / Catholic Encyclopedia

""...Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor.

The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:

Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly half the present population...""

Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present

The Growth of Jerusalem

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total

1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000

1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 .......... First Offical Ottoman Census

1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 ....... ..... Second .......

1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 ... ....... Third/last detailed above in CathEncyc

1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300

1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400

1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

robphila  10/02/2009 05:21 AM Report

Netanyahu is of the far-right and is certainly no friend of peace. Jean-Paul Sarte wrote that a man (or country) should be judged by his actions not his words. Israeli politicians have been talking about peace for a long time but do they really want it or is it just politically correct talk? If Israel really wants peace then why do they keep building settlements? Why do they keep violating UN security council resolutions? Why don't they withdraw to the 1967 borders? Why don't they withdraw from the Golan Heights and Shebba farms? Why do they carelessly kill dozens of women and children when they do raids into Gaza or the West Bank? Israel is a wealthy country with access to the best technology and American financial/logistical support. If they wanted to take steps towards peace they could have done so a long time ago. If you follow the actions of Israel over the decades (not the words), the actions suggest that they have been more interested in acquiring land than peace. Progress has a chance of being made with a labor government, but not with Likud.

ShalomFreedman -Your comments are filled with the same propoganda we have been hearing for many years. Maybe you can fool some people with that, but not educated people. You talk about the "historical land of Israel" as if the Jews have some divine right to that land. They lived there 2000 years ago! Can you imagine if the various native American tribes came back to NY and tried to claim some God-given right to it? Don't get me wrong, I accept Israel (even if its creation wasn't done properly), and I think it's good that the Jews have a place that they can call their own. But given that the area was overwhelmingly (over 90%)inhabited by Palestinians up until WWI, I think your attitude concerning your right to the land should be a little more humble and conciliatory. What about the Palestinian rights? They were living there peacefully until imperial Britain/Europe decided they could do whatever they wanted with the area.

Regarding offers made to the Palestinians---they have never received a half-decent offer. Obama has recognized this recently by talking about creating a "viable and contiguous" Palestinian state. The Palestinians live in poverty, if they had received a half-decent offer to better their lives they surely would have taken it.

Regarding Hizbollah, I'm sure your aware of the fact that Israel created Hizbollah by invading Lebanon. Hizbollah did not exist before this.

To doodahdaze---You obviously have a poor and superficial (at best) understanding of middle eastern history. Worse yet, your remarks are blatantly racist. Won't even waste my time.......

robdverity  09/29/2009 06:19 PM Report

Hey James814 is that a biblical James 8:14? And what is / are Pauls prejudices? (I may qualify.)

As to Fermi, Niels Bohr et al, fairness was not a goal.

Einstein's E=mc^2 has to be the basis of all quantum physics.

Here's another "betcha-can't-prove-me-wrong" outrage: without the inputs of Jewish cleverness (fractional or otherwise) neither the bomb, nor the financial meltdown would have happened.

Ask Bobby Rubin, the CEOs, the top operating officers of the major banks, hedge funds and financial institutions too-big-to-fail.

Bernie just happen to get caught. The rest are still collecting outsized bonuses and still engaging in leveraged too-clever-by-fractions trading.

Big swooping mea culpa if proven wrong. Libelous it ain't.

Christopher  09/29/2009 06:02 AM Report

I don't think that Ben is "in tune" with world opinion. Palestine is going to have to get some of East Jerusalem and a return to 67 border. I do not see how a peace deal can emerge from this Israeli PM who, I think is, out of whack with mainstream world opinion and fair play. (I don't mention the Palestinian/arab anti-Semitism obstacles to peace because I will post those when Charlie interviews Abbas) I do not see a Rabin in this guy. He is completely uninspiring. He is such a disappointment as a representative of such a special country. Obama will have to be more forceful (reduce foreign aid) in persuading Ben or else, the negociations will not go forward.

He last remarks are relevant. Israel’s fear of the “demographic” takeover is legitimate. The Palestinians have to recognize the Jewish state, not just Israel recognizing the Palestinian state. Will Jews be able to live safely in Palestine? Ben is right to be unsure.

kavim  09/29/2009 05:09 AM Report

How do alcohol and algebra have anything to do with the arabs except their names? Khwarizma and Rhazes were both Persian.Arabic was just the lingua franca of the Islamic world at the time.

Back to the subject of Iran,I think Iranäs threat has been overstated and abused by Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians to divert attention from Palestinian issue.

What is secret about the Qom site?Iran has reported it to

the IAEA and now they allow the IAEA's inspectors to visit

the sit.I'm not saying that Iran is not after nuclear weapons but I say there is little chance that Iran attacks

Israel.the Iranian regime likes to keep Iran in isolation so that they could control and suppress their own people.And they want to become a power in the region by supporting some groups like what they are doing in Iraq and lebanon.

ShalomFreedman  09/29/2009 02:48 AM Report

It is difficult contending with anonymous posters who make factually wrong , hate- filled comments.

Einstein is blamed by one poster for 'creating' the atom- bomb. Or rather it was all those Jews, first of all the Jew Roosevelt who initiated and built the Manhattan project. It was too the Jew Stalin and the Jew Sakharov who were responsible for the Soviet H- Bomb.

I ask again 'Is this really the kind of discussion this site should be hosting?'

Prime Minister Netanyahu gave a clear present picture of Israel's relation to a number of world- problems. One of those relates to the Iranian development of nuclear weapons. The Iranians have not simply misled the world for the past decade or more in regard to their problem. They are also a radical Islamic fundamentalist regime , the principal state supporter of global Terrorism. They threaten not only Israel but U.S. forces in the Middle East, and all states friendly to the U.S. The Europeans , French British Germans are extremely worried about their nuclear program also.

After the Netanyahu interview there was disclosure of another secret Iranian nuclear facility. This one in the Shiite holy- city of Qom.

Preventing Iran from going nuclear is an issue of first priority for Israel. But it is also a major priority of the Middle East as a whole, and the West as a whole.

NoPardonforMichaelMilken  09/29/2009 02:46 AM Report

Charlie,

You actually asked a question or two with perception and guts.

Since when did you grow a set?

Charlie, everyone knows you get your marching orders from that Manhattan brat, Lally Weymouth, and her pals at AIPAC, AEI, Heritage, Abe's ADL, WINEP, Denny Ross, and his lover, Marty Indyk.

No way in h-e-double-toothpicks you developed a set.

Not possible.

James814  09/29/2009 12:26 AM Report

robdverify

How about Fermi, Niels Bohr, etc.

You are abusing Paul's prejudices.

robdverity  09/28/2009 12:47 PM Report

Well, there you go. I'm always out of fashion. I thought it was in vogue to blame religions and races. Examples abound, e.g., Islamofacists comes to mind, Persians and Arabs don't seem to rank too high, and its been suggested we should move one troublesome group en mass to Australia due to their respective immaturities. Can't imagine how I thought it held water.

My short-comings weren't the topic, but if they were they're all the fault of Charles Darwin and his damn theories.

doodahdaze  09/28/2009 07:57 AM Report

robdverity,

Being envious and threatened by people smarter than you, is no way to go through life. Nor is it justification for blaming your shortcomings on a religion or race of people (it doesn't hold water).

If you don't believe me, just ask fart puppet.<wink>

robdverity  09/27/2009 11:45 PM Report

This irony too irresistable. Shalom proudly expounds: "Prime Minister Netanyahu represents a country which despite its small size is one of the foremost contributors to the medical, scientific and technological progress of mankind. He represents a country which has contributed much to poorer countries in areas such as irrigation and agricultural development."

The Jews own acuity in significant contributions to the creation of the bomb are now threatened by it.

Live by --- ----, die by --- ----!

God works in mysterious ways. Grizzly old bastard testing his chosen? Surely not.

robdverity  09/27/2009 11:23 PM Report

Al gebra, the watermelon, and al cohol. What else do you need.

The bomb, courtesy Einstein, Oppenheimer et al, a full circle ass-biter.

The choice has been pre-selected. In the inimitable words of Walt Kelly's Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

doodahdaze  09/27/2009 08:24 PM Report

I think either the Israelis or the Palestinians should be sent to the other side of Australia (the currently uninhabited side) and let them start a new 'peaceful' society there; since they obviously can't get along with each other. Just like siblings that can't stop fighting, they need to be separated by a bigger, more mature force.

The continent of Australia would be perfect for that; the British did it a couple 100 years ago, and now Sydney and Melbourne are thriving civilized metropolises.

I'm partial to sending the Palestinians, since it is the Israelis who cleaned-up, irrigated and worked the land and made it useful again. When Mark Twain visited the 'Holy Land', there was nothing there but mosquitoes and disease. Also, even if you hate jews, at least they can be 'reasoned with' and have a better understanding of a democratic capitalist society controlled by laws that promote human rights. The Arabs as a whole, have never invented or contributed anything towards the advancement of anything really. They just whine and complain and carry on like they don't know how to do anything else. So I say ship them off to Australia, and those who like to help the less fortunate can go there and show them how to be civilized.

End of problem.

What's next?.

robdverity  09/27/2009 03:41 PM Report

Isn't that what Hitler said?

Be more confident Shalom. Belligerents abound. Big money is on your side. The MI oligarchie plutocrats are slobbering at this latest revelation. The merchants of death will not let this opportunity slip away. Jingos arise!

Doubtless upgrading their Bahama tax-haven yachts as we speak. Bless ole Ahmedinajad. He may be on the payroll, along with Obama, Netanyahu, Bobby Gates, Bobby Rubin et al.

If we save the world from the Iranians, look what we're left with. Is it worth it? Putrefaction t-corn pone - until the next opportunity for murder and mayhem.

When we capitalize on this golden opportunity, the rest of the world will be more circumspect, but all the more desirous of nuclear parity.

Given the combined arrogance of the US and Israel, can't say as I blame them. To win is to lose. [Israel's put impetous for others? Naaah! Surely not.]

Shalom! (Someone from another planet sardonically and mockingly said - in a pig's ass. Not while there's profit to be made.)

ShalomFreedman  09/27/2009 05:30 AM Report

I have frequently been surprised at how low the level of ' spectator- response' is to the 'Charlie Rose Program'. One would expect that there would be concerned, intelligent debate and response.

Instead what often happens is exemplified in this particular sequence of responses. Most of them are by people who have no interest in responding to the major questions raised on the program. They instead happen to have a particular hobby- horse they trample on the mind of the reader with.

In the case of Israel- related discussions a good share of the posters are vicious, ignorant anti- Semites. Usually they post anonymously. They usually believe that the Jews control the world and have absolute power over the President of the United States. They are absurd but also fanatical in their hatred. Apparently even the dregs can type and misspell.

I believe it would make a little sense if this site were monitored to enable a civilized, reasonable discussion of issues, however controversial.

ShalomFreedman  09/27/2009 05:06 AM Report

Prime Minister Netanyahu was very relaxed and confident in his first 'Charlie Rose' appearance in nine years. He outlined a position which has become the consensus of the people of Israel. Israel wants peace, and is even willing to give up parts of the historical land of Israel in order to achieve it. It has accepted the idea of a Palestinian Arab state in parts of the historical land of Israel. But it cannot given its small territory, and the precedents of what have happened in previous withdrawals allow that Arab state to be another Iranian surrogate, as in Gaza Hamasland or South Lebanon Hizbollah- land. Israelis want two states for two peoples because they want Peace.

However I believe Prime Minister Netanyahu was a bit optimistic in consideration of what the Palestinian response will be . They have said 'no' to partition for eighty years now and have refused a number of offers for a state. They seem to be determined to do this for the foreseeable future.

As to Iran Prime Minister Netanyahu rightly pointed out that it has become a danger not only to Israel and to Gulf Arab states, but to the world as a whole. Iran is the principal state supporter of Terrorism. It has covertly worked on a nuclear weapons program for the past eight years while systematically deceiving the I.A.E.A. in regard to this. It is a regime which is increasingly illegitimate in the eyes of its own people, and one eager to stir external threats in order to divert the focus from internal problems. Most recently yet another Iranian hidden nuclear facility has been revealed.

Prime Minister Netanyahu represents a country which despite its small size is one of the foremost contributors to the medical, scientific and technological progress of mankind. He represents a country which has contributed much to poorer countries in areas such as irrigation and agricultural development.

He also represents the only country in the United Nations whose existence is threatened continually by a number of neighboring states, and the whole Islamofascist bloc.

His message that those Islamofascist Terrorist regime in Tehran is not simply an Israeli or Middle East threat but rather a global one is correct. The Iranians now have missiles which can reach a good part of Europe. They are developing longer range missiles which put the Western U.S. in their range. They reportedly already have enough nuclear material for two atomic devices, and in the warhead- assembly time required to put them into operation is less than a month.

They must be stopped before they bring massive destruction to mankind.

Prime Minister Netanyahu's message is an important one for not simply for those who care about the well- being of Israel and the Jewish people, but for all of those who are on the side of democratic , freedom- loving forward- looking mankind.

anion  09/26/2009 02:04 AM Report

Anton, I don't have time to address/research all of your points, but I'll start by attempting the fist two:

>What was Supreme Court Justice Brandeis involvement in the Black Tom Explosion?

I could not find any correlations from my Google/Wikipedia search. Will you elaborate? I'm not saying such a conspiracy does not exist, I'm just saying I could not find any evidence. I see constant bashing of various groups (usually Israel) on these forums, and when I attempt to research the validity of the claims, I generally come up empty handed.

>If Israel has such good Airport Security how did West Nile Virus enter the United States from Israel?

Detecting an individual virus on a person would be very difficult, only recently can we quickly genotype different pathogens. However, to get a full screen of all molecular entities possibly hitching a ride with a passenger - well, we're not quite there yet. If you think airport security lines are long now...

I was able to find that the US virus is very closely related to a lineage 1 strain found in Israel in 1998. But this is not conclusive proof of the US strain's origin. My understanding is that the West Nile virus is believed to be over 1000 years old, and has been a scourge constantly battled over the years by many inhabitants of various regions (Egypt, India, France, Uganda, Israel, etc.) - some have even speculated it caused Alexander the Great's death. So, I will presume you are not implying that West Nile virus is part of some great Jewish conspiracy - only that someone from Israel may have inadvertently transmitted a mosquito or its egg/larvae in their luggage, or brought an infected animal (e.g. dog, cat, bird)?

My apologies if I missed something obvious in my research.

----------

Ponyo prefers the sea

yet since new year

refusal to swim and be seen

banana man must speak to seed

bored, and soon will not be

AntonGrambihler  09/25/2009 05:45 PM Report

Questions Charlie should have asked:

What was Supreme Court Justice Brandeis involvement in the Black Tom Explosion?

If Israel has such good Airport Security how did West Nile Virus enter the United States from Israel?

If Israel has such good Airport Security how were body parts illegally shipped to the United States from Israel?

Where did Israel get the Uranium and Triggers for its Nuclear Bombs?

charlizecourriers  09/25/2009 04:57 PM Report

It truly is great fun to watch a man who believes he can "break the laws of history" because he is a Jew. His ancestors(sic) were crushed by this hubris, just as he will be. He is a "beacon" leading his people(sic) to their doom and he enjoying it, thanks to funding of this show by his American buddies. He is every Palistinian's posterboy for Zionism and jihad but in his own mind....Thanks, Charlie!

robdverity  09/25/2009 04:18 PM Report

Timing is everything (including suspect?). Suddenly (during the G20 and Netanyahu's diatribe) the US decides to reveal an underground nuclear processing facillty.

As Netanyahu's handmaiden we are doubtless posturing for a potential proxy military strike for and to appease Israel. A historical geo-political blunder if it happens.

robdverity  09/25/2009 04:03 PM Report

As a mind game, and a twist on history, try to imagine how the Jews of the area would have reated to a UN mandated state for Arabs (Palestinian or otherwise). Complacent and compliant? Or violent and outraged? Rockets and uprisings?

AntonGrambihler  09/25/2009 03:43 PM Report

At the urging of Supreme Court Justice Brandeis, who was the most prominent American Zionist, President Wilson turned a European War into WWI by declaring War on Germany. How much United States blood and treasure has been expended for the creation of a Jewish state in the Middle East and the funding of the Israeli illegal occupation of additional lands that they covet?

Why are Europeans who disagree with the official mandate of acceptable thought and actions about WWII put into Prison? What truths are being hidden?

Why did the United States Supreme Court uphold the 1940 Nationality Act until it was violated by an Israeli Citizen? All Dual Citizens including anyone with Israeli Citizenship must not be allowed to vote, hold any public office, or any position in the United States government whether elected, hired, or appointed.

The United States must stop being a Hypocrite and become a Nation of Laws ENFORCED EQUALLY on all people.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the United States put together a Collation and forced Iraq back to its International boundaries; therefore the United States must put together a Collation and force Israel back to its 1948 International boundaries. These boundaries were created when the United Nations took land away from the Palestine People and gave it to some Terrorists (These Terrorists call the land Israel). This Israel has yet to abide by the conditions of this resolution and should not be considered to exist until it does.

The United States must stop all aid to Israel until it signs the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, eliminates all its WMD, and signs a constitution which states that the Palestine People have the right of return.

There needs to be a through investigation of Supreme Court Justice Brandeis, who was the most prominent American Zionist, involvement in convincing President Wilson to turn a European War into WWI by declaring War on Germany.

Were the Europeans being treated like the Palestine People are currently being treated before the Nazis took control?

It seems like many of the people in the top levels of the United States government approving of the illegal Israeli activities are the children of political refuges.

Why was the Israeli attack on the United States ship USS Liberty not considered an act of War against the United States?

The United States continues to fund and protect the Illegal Israeli invasion and occupation of Palestine Land. Calling Hamas a terrorist organization is like calling Europeans trying to get their land back from the illegal Nazi invasion terrorist’s organizations.

A lawsuit brought because of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) killing a United States Citizen with a USA supplied Caterpillar was dropped because it would be against current USA Policy toward Israel. Appeasement trumps Justice.

Since going back in time is used to justify taking land from the Palestine People, then one needs to include the first rein of terror on this land by the Israelis including their Holocaust against the Aboriginal people.

owldog  09/25/2009 12:17 PM Report

THE ISRAELI FEDERATION of STATES

The United States of Israel

The situation in Israel and her Territories must change. The people must be freed from violence, oppression and conflict. We must think outside the box and introduce new solutions and ideas, for peace, prosperity and happiness. Having read many books on the Israeli-Palestinian history and conflicts, I have some ideas.

We must think in terms of a many-State solution. If the U.S.A. is to be a model of democracy, so too can our Federal system be a model for the structure of government.

We begin with what the two sides want. Israel wants security and a homeland and a Jewish State. Palestinians want a homeland and human rights. Israel controls the economic, military, and utility infrastructure of all her territories for security reasons, and has stated a desire to keep Palestinians without a military system of their own. Palestinians want their homeland and self-determination above all.

These things can all be achieved if Israel sees herself as not "one State" but a federation of several or more States, each State having its own local ordinances and residency requirements, economies, laws, etc., The United States of Israel. Palestinians then must be residents [citizens] of their own State(s) (i.e. Gaza; West Bank) within a Federal system, which would be one with the United States of Israel. All citizens of the U.S.I. would only be subject to civilian law. Military law (such as presently maintained for Palestinians in the West Bank) would be banned for all citizens of the U.S.I., and the residents of each respective State within.

Greater Israel would become the United States of Israel: Israel proper; West Bank (Samaria & Judea); Gaza; Golan; Jerusalem district; etc.

"Israel proper" (other names can be suggested) can continue to be a Jewish State, per se, requiring residents to provide proof of ethnic while the Federal government can be secular.

However, there would be free movement between the States of Israel, and non-Jewish people of other States might be able to own land or businesses in Israel proper, without being residents, and vice versa with regard to the other States. There must be a constitution granting full human right and priveleges to all in the Union, while affording each State to form its own cultural and residency requirements. The military would be Federal, but each State would have its own police, and local law enforcement. All residents of all States would be eligible to join the Military Services, etc.

Each State would have its own "right of return" policy.

Judeo-centric laws, priveleges, agencies, etc. would no long be part of the Federal government, but would be administered and funded, per se, only by the "Jewish State" (being called "Israel Proper" in this context)

The details of such a plan must be worked out with the parties, but no one would be forced to relocate. Jewish settlers would simply have to conform to the new law of the State in which they live or leave. There would be many Federal cases in the beginning to judge whether settlers have gained their land legally, or could make compensation or payment to remain where they are, for instance.

A parliament of representation and balance of power between branches of government, must be formulated to give fair representation, without the possibility of one ethnic group dominating the U.S.I.

It is entirely possible that historically, Israel, the Jewish State, could have taken a different course, and could have been established and built without the war and bloodshed of 1947-48 and the years following to the present. We cannot turn back the clock. However, we can admit to the failure of peaceful coexistence in the past 60 years or so, and try to make a new beginning, as it were.

Israel is an empire, like it or not, and must re-Constitute itself as such, for administration purposes, if there is to be peace and prosperity, for the Middle East, and for the world.

REMant  09/25/2009 12:06 PM Report

Mr Netanyahu is trying to tie the prevention of another world war to the prevention of another "holocaust" as if the Iranians were, as Protestant (and some Catholic) fundamentalists in this country like to call them, "Islamofacists." And that assumes, besides, that the fascists' primary goal was destruction of the Jews, which is certainly a conceit. The only way I see Iran's possession of nuclear weapons threatening the peace of the "entire world" is if Israel's allies join in or start a war over it like the British did over Poland, whether the weapons are used or not - yet another conceit. It's the same thing they have always done since WWII when things weren't going well: wrap themselves in the Swastika. But hasn't this "holiness" of the Jews, and their voluntary segregation, mingled, I might add, with a propensity to act like Shylock's, always been a reason for the suspicion and dislike? Aren't the Arabs afraid of Israel as much as they of them? Haven't the Palestinians been wronged as much as many Jews? The Palestinian reply to the charge of racism is to call the Israeli attitude apartheid, which is not to be denied.

Zionism, incidentally, began long before Wannsee and Auschwitz. It is an imposition, and one that has been supported, like we supported 19th century Liberia, by the same hypocritical Europeans - the French, Spanish, and others, no less than the Germans - who still don't really want them in their countries. Even in the O.T. Israel is a late, fragmented and comparatively short-lived entity, and unless you believe whomever wrote many years after their demise, most likely from captivity in Babylon, an anachronistic history about God giving the land to Moses, you cannot argue even from that that such a state has any right to exist. Of course, Jewish Biblical scholars, just like the so-called Priestly sources, attempt to do just that. It has always been more of a wish than a reality. Even Jerusalem was not captured until David, and at that time Israel and Judah were not united. In ancient times they fought to wrest the land from its many occupants, fought among themselves, and were expelled by force of arms, and 2000 or so years later they fought to take it back again from the present occupants, against the wishes, BTW, of both the British and American governments.

The real answer to this is either disarming BOTH parties so they can live together, more or less in peace, as they did 100 yrs ago before this latest episode began, or a state dominated by one party to the conflict or the other. Without American support there's no doubt at this time which party that would be. Two hostile and vengeful states is ridiculous in the context of feelings of all of Israel's neighbors, even if it could be said to be just. Upon reflection I am not sanguine about the possibility of "civilizing" the Palestinians to suit the Jews, or vice versa, for as St Paul (or Saul of Tarsus, if you wish) argued, any justification for righteousness comes from the heart, not ritual observance, and that has its only origin in true love of God.