Charlie Rose

robdverity  09/26/2009 05:44 PM Report

As a mind game, and a twist on history, try to imagine how the Jews of the area would have reated to a UN mandated state for Arabs (Palestinian or otherwise). Complacent and compliant? Or violent and outraged? Rockets and uprisings?

ShalomFreedman  09/25/2009 04:22 AM Report

Rich Cohen makes a strong argument in favor of the two- state solution, but does not really go into the details and understand why it is so difficult. There is a great deal of mixing of populations even within pre- sixty- seven Israel.

He too takes for granted a demographic picture which is disputed. There is much evidence that the numbers given by the Palestinian Authority regarding the Arab population in Judea and Samaria (The West Bank) are inflated.

What however most bothered me about the discussion was the assumption that Israel can make peace by itself without requiring the Palestinian Arabs to do anything. Israel can withdraw from territory unilaterally as it did from South Lebanon and Gaza. But what it received then was rockets and missiles on its civilian population.

I am afraid the real point is missed by Rich Cohen. It is that the Arabs have to transform their attitude, accept a state of their own and truly agree to live in peace with Israel. They have refused to do this for seventy years.

AntonGrambihler  09/24/2009 12:29 AM Report

Britain and France gave land belonging to Czechoslovakia to Nazi Germany on Sep 29, 1938. On Sep 3, 1939 2 days after Germany violated the Munich agreement, Britain and France declared war on the Nazis and forced them to surrender.

The UN gave land belonging to the Palestine People to the Terrorists that rose up against the British Mandate of Palestine. The terrorists call this land Israel. This Israel has been in violation of the UN Resolution for years.

The way forward is for the UN to returned the land confiscated from the Palestine People back to the Palestine People and demand that their "Right Of Return" is not hindered.

In addition the UN needs to begin an International court to try and prosecute the War Criminals in the United States and Israel who were involved in the Slaughter of the Lebanese and Palestine people.

robdverity  09/23/2009 09:04 PM Report

Shrdlu42 - ". . . then might makes right, and as the mightier party Israel has the right to do whatever it wants to the Palestinians - including mass extermination! The fact that Israel has not engaged in such conduct is the best proof of how biased and wrong you others are!"

"Israeli Soldiers Testify to War Crimes

The PulsePosted March 19, 2009 - 10:01am "During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive," Ha'aretz reported today.

At a lecture at a pre-military academy Israeli soldiers and officers gave personal accounts of murder and brutality.

Ofer Shelah in Ma'ariv:

"For the first time since the end of Operation Cast Lead, testimonies have come to the fore of soldiers and officers from different units that took part in the operation. The testimonies . . . paint a harsh picture, very different from the IDF reports: Killing people who were clearly identified as innocent, driving families out of their homes to the open area where a policy was in force according to which whoever remained in the area was not an innocent person and could be shot, acts of vandalism and destroying property and humanitarian supplies, and an atmosphere in which the combatants understood that all this was permitted, and would not be investigated."

It's easy to see why Israel is our ally, as we love to brutalize our young as well.

Israel's mass extermination is more mass humility. Keeping them in their own excrement, without infrastructure, road blocks, non-contiguous farms, subsistent food, topped off with a kill ratio of 100+/1, when they object in some futile and feeble way. Demographics might suggest might-makes-right a short-sighted policy at any rate.

Shrdlu42  09/23/2009 08:08 PM Report

Remnant says he can't think of another group of people who have been more prejudiced for the past 200 years. Gee, let's think - which group gave us the unholy Crusades, the unholy Inquisition, the unholy wars of the Reformation, slavery (aided and abetted by Muslims, by the way), segregation, apartheid, the Holocaust? Another hint: it wasn't the Jews or the Israel's!

Shrdlu42  09/23/2009 08:04 PM Report

Why should the Arabs or Muslims be allowed to have their own countries (Egypt, Kuwait, Libya, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, etc., etc.)? Why should the Americans, Canadians, the Mexicans, the British, the Chinese, the French, the Germans, the Japanese, the Russians, etc.)? In short, why should the only people whose claim to have a country of their own cast in doubt (or outright denied) be the Israeli's?

As for those of you who believe in a "one-state solution", ask the Lebanese or the Iraqi's how well that's worked out!

The fact is that Israel's right to exist is based on the same thing as the claim for Palestine: resolutions by the U.N. What to do away with that? Fine, then might makes right, and as the mightier party Israel has the right to do whatever it wants to the Palestinians - including mass extermination! The fact that Israel has not engaged in such conduct is the best proof of how biased and wrong you others are!

Oh, and by the way, let's not forget who constantly targets innocent civilians (9/11, Lockerbee, the Achile Lauro highjacking - with the murder of an elderly wheel-chair bound man), etc., etc., etc. I'll give you a hint: it wasn't the Israeli's!

robdverity  09/23/2009 07:39 PM Report

Mr Cohen seemed more rational than most (Israelis). What'll they think of next? But dogma comes easy for most so beware, it may be an illusion.

A final diaspora to AZ would solve everything. Silly solutions are more viable than others (a la the status quo). And they would be more welcome.

balder  09/23/2009 03:11 PM Report

It seems to me the the population in the arab world doubles every20-30 years. For example Syria had a population around 4 millions in 1960. Now they are around 17 million, i think.

Saudi-Arabia, who in 1960 had below 4 million inhabitants are stipulated to have 90 million people in 2050. Nowadays they are around 20 million.

I think the tragedy of Israel is the demoraphics. If the arab populations had stayed relatively stable, Israel would have much easier hand to play. No one in 1948 could have forseen how backward their surroundings would stay. the islamic darkness around them can make anyone depressed and anxious.

winter  09/23/2009 12:35 PM Report

Israel's attempt to paint themselves as victims reminds me of the cartoon where the overfed woman has a rail thin stick man in a headlock with one arm, is beating him in the head with the other hand and is screaming ...HAAALP!

REMant  09/23/2009 11:43 AM Report

The salient issue is the centuries-old belief that Jews SHOULD have a nation of their own. If anything is obsessional about this question, it is this. It is a theocracy, not a democracy, same as Iran, and there's no way to pussyfoot around it. The first amendment of the US constitution prohibits the Federal govt from establishing a theocracy and the states disestablished themselves in the early 19th c. The Jews complain about prejudice, but if any group of ppl has been more prejudiced in the past 2000+ years, I have no idea who they might be. A one-state solution is only objectionable to people who WILL not live together with others, either in a spirit of tolerance, or of consensus. As proof of their inability to even live together peaceably in Zion, I offer an average debate in the Knesset. I very often think that the survival from ancient times of the Bible has been the greatest imaginable human tragedy. I agree tho that Netanyahu might prove a sort-of Nixon like Sharon appears to have been.