Charlie Rose

19315081131  08/03/2009 01:11 PM Report

This episode makes me consider no longer watching.

My issue with Obama is not his choice of words, which may or may not have been right. My issue is with the rightness, and really the absurdity, of his view. I also am confused by his failure to see the situation as it is, a police officer who did their job and someone who overreacted.

Obama's reactionary response mirrors Gates response, and the responses of these three. It's as if they don't even know what Wikipedia could tell them:

According to the police report and interviews with Sgt. Crowley, the officer asked Gates to step outside, and he refused, saying "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" and "I'll speak with your mama outside".[17] Sgt. Crowley has stated that it was an unusual response for a resident in the home legally.[15][18] The police also said that Gates initially refused to provide ID, instead called someone to complain about a "Racist police officer", and ultimately showed his Harvard ID. Sgt. Crowley has stated that as he tried to radio in the name on the ID, Gates shouted so loudly he couldn't hear his own voice. The police report states that "Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had not heard the last of him".

Gates should apologize, for making it an issue about race. Flake, Kelley and Remnick should admit that it was a mistake on his part to interpret it in that way, and that his actions were unreasonable. It can happen to 'a Dr. Gates' just as it can happen to anyone (as it should happen to anyone). Can you not see that 'your history' has biased your ability to see the events as they are?

If a person of any race, or of any characteristics, did not comply with their commands they would be arrested. What is the alternative? That the officers leave the scene without establishing whether it was a lawful entry or not, that they do so for reasons of free speech. He is free to speak, he is not free to interfere with, and obscure the processing of establishing whether he was in the right place.

The short of it is, that if he had followed their commands and respectfully conducted himself it never would have been a problem. That's sort of behavior that people of all races should demand of themselves.

tartufe  07/30/2009 02:26 PM Report

As of this comment 27 (26 + this one) entries re race, and (only) 10 re Afghanistan. Yet Afghanistan deals with war and death, while this forum deals with racism, bigotry and prejudice. Skewed emotions and priorities!?

Wonder what a natural prognosis of such weighting portends? Beyond judgmental assertions.

Here's one (pre-beer). O's going to have to be damn good to overcome his self-made foot-in-mouth indiscretion. He's mitigated it about as much as possible. I'm bettin for a small net loss, irredeemable. "Stupidly," was unpresidential, and payment is due, warranted and should be paid with dispatch and move on. Malingering will only increase the cost.

Alexandria  07/30/2009 04:55 AM Report

http://spectator.org/archives/2009/07/29/gates-lied/

The title of this article is "Gates Lied."

Entire quote here is from the article: "In a July 21 interview published on The Root, a website Gates founded, he said, "The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That's a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor's report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn't have yelled. I can't yell even today, I'm not fully cured."

In the tapes, Gates can clearly be heard shouting in the background."

The recordings support the accounts provided by the officers and witnesses. The tapes answer the two most important questions. No, no one reported a break-in by black men, and yes, Gates did shout at Crowley.

Alexandria  07/30/2009 04:19 AM Report

Are these the kinds of things we can expect from a racist president?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/07/024156.php

Quoting from link:

"We wrote here about the Justice Department's dismissal of a voter intimidation case against a group of armed Black Panthers who threatened would-be voters outside a polling place in Philadelphia. This video of the defendants indicates the sort of intimidation in which they were engaged:...

DOJ's decision to dismiss the case has been mysterious, in part, because it came after the defendants had defaulted. So the case had been won, and Justice decided to give it away.

Republicans in Congress have tried to find out who decided to let the Panthers off, and why, but they have been stonewalled by the Justice Department and the Obama administration. The Washington Times has been investigating, however, and reports that the decision to drop the case was approved by Associate Attorney General Thomas J. Perrelli. Perrilli is a Democratic Party activist who raised $500,000 for President Obama's campaign and was rewarded with the number three spot in the Department of Justice."

Alexandria  07/30/2009 03:21 AM Report

danielmadrid: I assure you that my mind is indeed open and functions extremely well.

You wrote: "Professor Gates was in his own home." That was what the police, in fact, were trying to ascertain. It could just as easily have been a burglar saying he was in his own home. If I set off my security system alarm accidentally, the security company immediately calls me and asks for my identifying code. I could protest all I wanted and say I'm in my own home and don't need to do that, but it wouldn't do any good. If I couldn't produce it, they would be sending the police pronto. Thank goodness for that. And "being in his own home" doesn't give Gates license to be uncooperative with the police and rail at them, shouting, including using street language about the policeman's mother. Most of us could figure out that just isn't a smart move if you're being questioned by police about anything. The policeman described Gates' behavior as "tumultuous" and that sounds like an out of control situation.

You wrote: "To the contrary a 58 year old white professor would have been approached differently and told to calm his hot head; then the police would have offered to help or simply leave."

You have no idea how the police approached Gates if you weren't there. You have made some negative assumption based on nothing at all. From what I've heard, Gates was immediately belligerent, refusing to produce his ID and making a remark about, "this is what happens to a black man in America." You have no idea how the police conducted themselves throughout the entire affair. Don't forget, there was also a black policeman at the scene with officer Crowley who said there was nothing untoward at all on Crowley's part, that there was no racism at play at all.

But then you write: "Racism is so deeply ingrained in our society that I don't believe the cops knew they were reacting with racism. Police of all races and ethnicity are so used to dealing with non-white perpetrators of crime that they are unconsciously predisposed to arrest people of color. This explains why the black cop who was present and black coworkers so easily supported Officer Crowley."

So what you're trying to say here is that the black policeman with Crowley was himself racist? I watched the interview with the black officer and he seemed like a reasonable, intelligent, calm guy.

What is truly alarming about this whole story is the president's attitude, just jumping to conclusions that the police were racist. Add that to what we know of his attending a white-hating church for twenty years and the negative remarks about white people in his books, including, in a speech, the grandmother who raised him, whom he called a "typical white person," prejudiced, for what, as it turns out, was her fear of a black man who had threateningly pan-handled her on the bus. I don't believe this country wanted an Al Sharpton as president, but, that's what we may have.

NoPardonforMichaelMilken  07/29/2009 11:50 PM Report

The only things David Remnick know about race are the skin colors of the maid, nanny, and aide that he hires illegally in Central Park every six months before turning them over to the INS and writing off the cost of each hiring on his IRS tax return all the while hiding his money offshore in the Cayman Islands with the assistance of Goldman Sachs.

tartufe  07/29/2009 11:28 PM Report

mathnerd - are you really (a math nerd)? Congratulations if you are. Illuminating comparison: trailer trash treatment (TTT) to Black Harvard Professor treatment(BHPT). Plus this: "disservice to those who have been and will be true victims of obusive law enforcement(The victims are not all non-white, by the way)."

Had he been on his game (not tired from China flt) he should have started thanking Crowley right at the door for being so prompt and protective of his property, and that he appreciated his stellar service.

But then again if the frog had wings he wouldn't have bumped his ass.

Conclusion jumping from your writing style you seem to have overcome some background issues of your own. Well done (if that doesn't sound patronizing.)

Third grade psychology observation. Anyone 5'6" is due some initial slack (till he earns it). Has to be a handicap nearly equivalent to being black. Backed by recent report of a tall-premium in annual salaries of over $800.

If you're genetically less than average height, I hope your mathnerd pseudonym symbolizes an offsetting talent.

mathnerd  07/29/2009 07:21 PM Report

Does anyone else remember the appearance Gates made on Charlie Rose when, in response to Rose's question about why no one has come up with any real SOLUTIONS on race, Gates responded that no one has had "sufficient leisure". I guess beer at the White House will be right up his alley. But really, what is a professorship if not an opportunity to be scholarly and reflect and all that stuff academics like to imagine that they do?

I'm pretty convinced that this sort of arrest takes place every day, but in the sort of places no one on this site would care about, like trailer parks. If a guy in a trailer park were yelling at a cop, the cop then warned him that he'd reached a point where he was disturbing the peace and would be arrested if he continued(he'd be lucky if he even got the warning as Gates did), and the guy chose to continue and so was arrested, would anyone be ruminating about how shocking it was that his freedom of speech was violated in his own trailer? Of course, I know that many or most of you here think that it's a GOOD thing that there be a different standard for Harvard professors. But much worse things happen to the folks in the trailer parks and ghettos. And this is why the Gates issue has stuck with me. In a scramble to protect his own reputation after his "yo mama" tantrum, he has hyped his claim of victimhood so much as to do a severe disservice to those who have been and will be true victims of obusive law enforcement(The victims are not all non-white, by the way). He should be ashamed of this and of the example he set. Some angry kid is going to think he can get away with doing what the Harvard prof did, but tragically he'll find out what the bad cops are really like, and they're nothing like Crowley. I have experience with a few of the bad ones because my father was a bona fide paranoid crazy. On Thanksgiving night when I was 9-years-old he was already handcuffed in front of the house. There were 6 cops present, and he was about 5'6". But he was drunk and wouldn't shut up. So, in front of us, one of the cops hit him over the head with a big flashlight, knocking him to the ground, unconscious and foaming at the mouth. I describe this incident, because it's the one I witnessed first hand. But worse is what they did to my brother when he was arrested for the crime of having a nut for a father.

So from my perspective Gates is selling out all true victims when he tells America that his "big shot" act is what law enforcement abuse looks like.

mathnerd  07/29/2009 07:21 PM Report

Does anyone else remember the appearance Gates made on Charlie Rose when, in response to Rose's question about why no one has come up with any real SOLUTIONS on race, Gates responded that no one has had "sufficient leisure". I guess beer at the White House will be right up his alley. But really, what is a professorship if not an opportunity to be scholarly and reflect and all that stuff academics like to imagine that they do?

I'm pretty convinced that this sort of arrest takes place every day, but in the sort of places no one on this site would care about, like trailer parks. If a guy in a trailer park were yelling at a cop, the cop then warned him that he'd reached a point where he was disturbing the peace and would be arrested if he continued(he'd be lucky if he even got the warning as Gates did), and the guy chose to continue and so was arrested, would anyone be ruminating about how shocking it was that his freedom of speech was violated in his own trailer? Of course, I know that many or most of you here think that it's a GOOD thing that there be a different standard for Harvard professors. But much worse things happen to the folks in the trailer parks and ghettos. And this is why the Gates issue has stuck with me. In a scramble to protect his own reputation after his "yo mama" tantrum, he has hyped his claim of victimhood so much as to do a severe disservice to those who have been and will be true victims of obusive law enforcement(The victims are not all non-white, by the way). He should be ashamed of this and of the example he set. Some angry kid is going to think he can get away with doing what the Harvard prof did, but tragically he'll find out what the bad cops are really like, and they're nothing like Crowley. I have experience with a few of the bad ones because my father was a bona fide paranoid crazy. On Thanksgiving night when I was 9-years-old he was already handcuffed in front of the house. There were 6 cops present, and he was about 5'6". But he was drunk and wouldn't shut up. So, in front of us, one of the cops hit him over the head with a big flashlight, knocking him to the ground, unconscious and foaming at the mouth. I describe this incident, because it's the one I witnessed first hand. But worse is what they did to my brother when he was arrested for the crime of having a nut for a father.

So from my perspective Gates is selling out all true victims when he tells America that his "big shot" act is what law enforcement abuse looks like.

tartufe  07/29/2009 07:18 PM Report

This issue is tipping too far into la la land. Radicals are poisoning the well (of discourse) - the birthers, the sore losers. Obama's mistakes are far more serious than the "stupidly" comment. His support of Af-Pak, and no jailing of financial wise-guys for two. The racists stuff just demeans us all. Time to move on. Vote against him - even (god forbid) if you have to rely substance.

stevebrownptc  07/28/2009 05:38 PM Report

David Remnick, as an Obama apologist and personal friend of Dr. Gates, makes some bold assumptions on little evidence. Perhaps a more objective panelist is warranted. The President’s “acted stupidly” comment was the type of remark that propels the racial rhetoric in this country. The President could have set the new standard of fairness in the racial debate by apologizing for the unfortunate remark. The tape of the 911 caller showed race was not a factor initially as reported. As an NAACP member, I am tired of the “white world is evil” campaign, and white community avoiding the black harmony issue at all costs. I agree with Floyd Flake that had the officer been African American and Dr. Gates refused to cooperate and subsequently arrested, there would have been no overblown story.

daneilmadrid  07/28/2009 04:54 PM Report

Professor Gates was in his own home. Freedom of speech is a fundamental right for an American citizen (in theory), especially in one's own home. He committed no crime thus he was set free from jail and not charged. To the contrary a 58 year old white professor would have been approached differently and told to calm his hot head; then the police would have offered to help or simply leave. Racism is so deeply ingrained in our society that I don't believe the cops knew they were reacting with racism. Police of all races and ethnicity are so used to dealing with non-white perpetrators of crime that they are unconsciously predisposed to arrest people of color. This explains why the black cop who was present and black coworkers so easily supported Officer Crowley.

Furthermore, if Alexandria were really "a long-term watcher, since 1993"; he/she would have a much more open mind. The Charlie Rose Show provides a respectful arena for thoughtful intelligent conversation - as did William Buckley on Crossfire. Alexandria describes the Charlie Rose Show as "babble from these left-wing media." This derision is nothing more than fear of balanced intelligent conversation from a professional blogger armed with right-wing talking points. However, I must thank Alexandria for proving with his/her many comments; that Racism is very alive and well in America. We have much work to do as a nation to turn this around - please listen with an open mind to the wide array of intelligent guests with different points of view that join in thoughtful conversation at Charlie Rose's round table.

daneilmadrid  07/28/2009 04:54 PM Report

Professor Gates was in his own home. Freedom of speech is a fundamental right for an American citizen (in theory), especially in one's own home. He committed no crime thus he was set free from jail and not charged. To the contrary a 58 year old white professor would have been approached differently and told to calm his hot head; then the police would have offered to help or simply leave. Racism is so deeply ingrained in our society that I don't believe the cops knew they were reacting with racism. Police of all races and ethnicity are so used to dealing with non-white perpetrators of crime that they are unconsciously predisposed to arrest people of color. This explains why the black cop who was present and black coworkers so easily supported Officer Crowley.

Furthermore, if Alexandria were really "a long-term watcher, since 1993"; he/she would have a much more open mind. The Charlie Rose Show provides a respectful arena for thoughtful intelligent conversation - as did William Buckley on Crossfire. Alexandria describes the Charlie Rose Show as "babble from these left-wing media." This derision is nothing more than fear of balanced intelligent conversation from a professional blogger armed with right-wing talking points. However, I must thank Alexandria for proving with his/her many comments; that Racism is very alive and well in America. We have much work to do as a nation to turn this around - please listen with an open mind to the wide array of intelligent guests with different points of view that join in thoughtful conversation at Charlie Rose's round table.

ZZZ  07/28/2009 04:48 PM Report

First, it showed Obama is human.

And then, it showed Obama is Obama.

BBL  07/28/2009 04:32 PM Report

If you can not be objective on race issue, you are only exploding with your racism.

You are not convincing anybody, you just show the ugly side of human beings. And that is what a real STUPID is!

tartufe  07/28/2009 01:15 PM Report

Gates doubtlessly tired. Off a many-houred flt from China. Plus he may have an uppity streak - somewhat justified perhaps. He has arrived after all.

Crowley would come out ahead if he would reverse his earlier stance and apologize (whether he was totally sincere or not). His personna as being the more rational and forgiving would in the long term be remembered as the equal if not the better of the two. It's a public perception game (for all three) from here on in. Beer and all.

Alexandria  07/28/2009 01:13 PM Report

Robert wrote: "So much is projection. The story about the Reverend entering the store and receiving no attention until he had his Armani suit--how much of that did he expect to happen and so how much was projection?"

Projection, definitely. But also in the case of Barack Obama, this wielding the term "teachable moment" seems to be another instance of political jujitsu in much the same way he deflected criticism about his twenty-year membership in Rev. Jeremiah Wright's anti-white church by giving an "eloquent" speech where he lays blame everywhere but on himself: it's society, we have to understand and be tolerant of where Rev. Jeremiah Wright is coming from because of our past sins, and all that jazz. With that slippery, duplicitous speech he was heralded by the press as the second coming of Abraham Lincoln. I think Obama is trying the same thing here. His poll numbers went down immediately after his Gates comments, and thus he made that unusual appearance at the press conference to talk about it, trying to stop the slide. He's just trying the same offsense-is-the-best-defense trick a second time. Heck. It worked the first time.

Alexandria  07/28/2009 01:00 PM Report

I should have written "AS" such. The video starts with a short ad.

Alexandria  07/28/2009 12:56 PM Report

Here is the video of the interview with the Cambridge police about the Gates affair. The black police who speak, one who was there at the scene, speak eloquently about the officer and the lack of racism in this incident.

While obviously we all know that some police have been racially motivated (we are speaking of a large cohort here obviously), to use the Gates example of such is absurd and abhorrent. I pity the poor police who must try to establish law and order, risking their lives on a daily basis in doing so, and can look forward to being kicked in the teeth for it with false accusations of racism. Let's hear it from the police across the United States.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2009/07/26/nr.comrade.in.arms.cnn

doodahdaze  07/28/2009 06:53 AM Report

I think President Obama was just defending a friend, race had nothing to do with it. I think Professor Gates is just a bit of a hothead and was jumping to conclusions and ultimately using his relationship to the President to act like a RACIST BULLY.

What recourse do white people have when they are trying to reason with a power maniac cop?!!!

A power maniac cop?! What an original concept!

Can I yell like 3 year old child?! "Wa! Wa! This cop doesn't like the color of my eyes! He's interrupting my stroll because he doesn't like people with black hair!

Professor Gates is OBSESSED with race because he isn't intelligent or mature enough think about anything else; just like ALL LIBERALS AND BLACK THUGS. .. They are stupid pussys!

robert  07/28/2009 06:00 AM Report

I agree with Alexandria.

So much is projection. The story about the Reverend entering the store and receiving no attention until he had his Armani suit--how much of that did he expect to happen and so how much was projection?

If I go to France and expect to find arrogant people I will find them.

Even the stuff Obama writes, I think he projected that security guards tailed him. His own inferiority complex.

You can read through the lines and then wonder how much of Obama's drive is borne out of rage and bitterness that gets projected on to white people.

unnerving

Best words ever spoken were Rodney King. "can't we all just get along?"

Alexandria  07/28/2009 01:50 AM Report

I'm frequently absolutely dumbfounded about the liberal bias on the Charlie Rose show. I'm a long-term watcher, since 1993, but his left-wing agenda has become more and more apparent. I'm still a fan, but, by golly, I'm passing on more and more of this babble from these left-wing media people. Suguaro's remarks in this forum are right on.

I've read Newsweek for fifty years, since I was a child really, and recently have terminated my subscription because of their biased reporting. The same with the New Yorker under David Remnick. I subscribed for very many years but no longer.

Why does a panel such as the one chosen to discuss this incident not have a member such as Victor Davis Hanson to provide some semblance of balanced reporting here?

Here's Jennifer Rubin on the Gates affair:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/five-reasons-why-gates-gate-matters/

And Victor Davis Hanson:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRlNDM5YTIxMGUzMjdiM2I5MWFjZDAzZTM3Nzg5N2U=

For that matter, here's Juan Williams:

“The president spoke without the facts. You can’t have a ‘teachable moment’ if it’s based on a lie.”

And might I add that the person who could benefit from this "teachable moment" is Obama himself. This is a good example of someone (Gates) calling racism, which is in itself is racism if none has occurred. The same is true of Barack Obama. Obama is all mixed up about who needs to benefit from the "teachable moment." It's he who needs educating. It was no mistake on his part that he attended Rev. Jeremiah Wright's white hate-mongering sermons for twenty years.

I wish the policeman from Massachusetts would sue Gates for slander. Then they could take depositions from the very many witnesses who could attest to what Gates said and what the policeman said. I've already seen video of statements from the black police officer who was there when the incident occurred. He saw no racism on the part of the police whatsoever.

And yet here is the Charlie Rose show and the panel lamenting the supposed guilt of the police officer. I don't want to bother watching these one-sided opinions. It's a waste of time,and it's also frightening that these people can't think any clearer than this. I feel the same way about the people who elected Obama. What has happened to the reasoning powers of people in this country?

SmokeGetsInYourEyes  07/28/2009 01:27 AM Report

This was excellent - measured and cool-headed. Thank you. Enjoyed hearing all the perspectives.

FYI: the "Highlights" of the show will run but the whole show will not come up.

bauhwa  07/27/2009 10:52 PM Report

We followed our procedure, before invading Iraq.

We'd do it again, if the same thing happened.

We won't apologize, since we didn't violate our law.

We don't know why other countries hate us for this.

And God is with us America.

bratschekind  07/27/2009 09:03 PM Report

Is David Remnick really a journalist or a professional Obama apologist? Let's see, Obama veers way off message at his press conference, commenting about a topic about which he admittedly didn't know the facts, the result being:

1) No one is talking about his health care plan but rather his controversial statement.

2) He polarized the country in the very way he supposedly decries.

3) He and the White House spend the next few days doing damage control rather than spending it on advancing his health care plan.

4) Obama's approval rating goes down five points in one week.

Yet, all Remnick does is gush about how brilliant and eloquent Obama is? Remnick is nothing but a left wing hack and a boring one at that. Please Charlie, I love your show but it's much more interesting to have guests on who are not so routinely predictable and possess at least a degree of objectivity.

Saguaro  07/27/2009 06:41 PM Report

To fjgajewski: Now why do you have to disrespect sargent Crowley? He's an ordinary American blue-collar guy just doing his job. Why do you have to call Americans ignorant? See how you Polocks are?

fjgajewski  07/27/2009 06:26 PM Report

Let's face it: Americans are ignorant. If Mother Teresa appeared with nimbus in Harvard Square, Sgt. Crowley would be at a loss to recognize her,

Saguaro  07/27/2009 02:11 PM Report

Has anyone at the table read the police report? Why is it that no African American can see that the police officer was just doing his job, responding to a possible home invasion by two Black men with back packs? It was Gates, the highly educated Ph.D and world famous scholar that acted like a fool, and it was the everyday blue collar policeman who acted like the professional. Did I hear it correctly that the home of Gates has been broken into before? The man should have been grateful that the police showed up at his door to see what was happening. The man should have been grateful that a neighbor called the police to check into an unusual situation at his home. Instead, the police officer got nothing but a lot of mouth. Gates was warned three times to quiet down. Clearly, his buttons had been pressed and he was out of control. Spare us all the talk about history. Let's hear something about respect for the police. Police forces in this country are now well intergrated with all races. The days of an all white police force are forever gone. This isn't 1950, it's 2009.

As for David Remick of the New Yorker, my God, I've never heard such honey coated cow dung. Listening to him almost made me puke. I know cops can be real s-o-b's at times, but so can preachers, and cowboys, and lawyers, and judges, and actors, and presidents. Talk about taking sides; I have yet to hear one Black person on TV say that the cop was in the right in this one instance. I think Blacks better grow up and get out of that 50's mentality, cause the Times they are a changing and you don't know what it is, do ya' Mr. Jones.