Charlie Rose

tartufe  07/20/2009 01:53 AM Report

Obama's overtaking Bush on inhumane maltreatment of prisoners. From NYT 7/19/09:

The problems at the existing American-run prison, the Bagram Theater Internment Facility, have been well documented.

The prison is a converted aircraft hangar that still holds some of the decrepit aircraft-repair machinery left by the Soviet troops who occupied the country in the 1980s.

Military personnel who know Bagram and the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, describe the Afghan site as tougher and more spartan.

The prisoners have fewer privileges and virtually no access to lawyers or the judicial process. Many are still held communally in big cages.

In the past two weeks, prisoners have refused to leave their cells to protest their indefinite imprisonment.

tartufe  07/14/2009 04:56 PM Report

Shalom - this is going to bed and I can't let you keep denying - as in this, ". . . accusing people of crimes they never committed." Your own Israeli news source I've cited - and will again - for you to exhibit your pathological Israeli chauvinism denial. To wit:

"Israeli Soldiers Testify to War Crimes

The PulsePosted March 19, 2009 - 10:01am "During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive," Ha'aretz reported today.

At a lecture at a pre-military academy Israeli soldiers and officers gave personal accounts of murder and brutality.

Ofer Shelah in Ma'ariv:

For the first time since the end of Operation Cast Lead, testimonies have come to the fore of soldiers and officers from different units that took part in the operation. The testimonies . . . paint a harsh picture, very different from the IDF reports: Killing people who were clearly identified as innocent, driving families out of their homes to the open area where a policy was in force according to which whoever remained in the area was not an innocent person and could be shot, acts of vandalism and destroying property and humanitarian supplies, and an atmosphere in which the combatants understood that all this was permitted, and would not be investigated."

ADMITTED STATE TERRORISM!!! (Made to order for you to deny - again and again and again. At least I'm willing to admit my country's faults - elstwise they will never be corrected. Imo you too could do more for Israel with a more realistic view, rather than school-boy type denial.)

tartufe  07/13/2009 12:20 PM Report

Pot-shots were made for blogging, Mr. Gordon, and vice versa. Here's one against our descending home land - a patriotic one imho:

More CIA coupled atrocities. How to lose hearts and minds. (Gee, it makes one wonder, did Mossad teach the CIA all it knows?)

Excerpted from NYT:

"The allegations date back to November 2001, when as many as 2,000 Taliban prisoners died in transit after surrendering during one of the regime's last stands, according to a State Department report from 2002.

"Witnesses have claimed that forces with the U.S.-allied Northern Alliance placed the prisoners in sealed cargo containers over the two-day voyage to Sheberghan Prison, suffocating them and then burying them en masse, using bulldozers to move the bodies, according to the State Department report. Some Northern Alliance soldiers have said that some of their troops opened fire on the containers, killing those within."

[Sealed cargo containers? Literally roasted alive? Have to hope in mtns.]

McNama, Pinochet, Cheney must be beaming with pride. State terrorism in hot pursuit in their 'War on Terrorism." Takes one to know one. Obama's our man. It's all yours Big O. Go get em. Kill, rah, rah, kill, rah, rah, kill, slobber, slobber, schlurp, schlurp. The MI oligarches are having a synchronized wet dream. Go long in Boeing et al.

rogergordon  07/13/2009 01:40 AM Report

Thank you for providing this international forum where before the eyes of the world, we witness first hand the dichotomy of fact based truths and a fiction created on misinterpretation of facts as well as jingoistic propaganda. Indeed this forum illustrates the contrast between a forthright, identified, spokesperson for Israel, and a coward who hides behind the “tartufe” persona and takes pot-shots at his adversary: not at all unlike the terrorist, cowards that hide behind the skirts of their defenseless women and defenseless infants and take pot-shots at Israel and the United States.

It is my opinion that, perhaps if all sides would stand squarely face-to-face, in a show of humility and humanity, a wondrous peace would arise where both peoples would thrive in unity. Truth be told, the Palestinians have more in common, and to gain with Israel than with their Arab brethren who have “sold them down-the –river”. While the surrounding Arab states sit back and enjoy the spoils of hatred and killing, their citizens are distracted from recognizing the inequality existing within their own back yards. It would seem quite obvious, that the Palestinian people are being used as “cannon fodder” by their fellow Arabs.

ShalomFreedman  07/12/2009 10:23 PM Report

Whoever you are, Tartufe, you prefer to rant and rave rather than reason.

Your Germanic pseudonym hints perhaps at your basic reason for wishing to demonize Israel.

In any case, go on hating in the name of accusing people of crimes they never committed.

I suggest you take a look at the record of Palestinian Arab internal relations, including violent repression and crimes against their own people- something ongoing at the moment- before you spout false charges against Israel.

'Truth' after all is also a value.

tartufe  07/12/2009 06:15 PM Report

"If it were the choice of Israel there would be no casualties on either side."

Those damn Pals, don't they realize they should be honored to be denigrated, humiliated, pillaged, plundered, murdered, excoriated, vilified, yadda, yadda without a whimper. Their chopped-up land, fenced-off farms are a small price to pay for such god-adulating neighbors. Fucking ingrates.

Your obsessive obsession with my identity and ideology is a bit dissembling and meaningless - as if the appellation Shalom(inapigsass)Freedman had some heady revelatory manifestation association with it beyond a genetic propensity for hypocrisy.

Well ok, drum-roll pls, my real name is Otto NichtSchadenfreude, a flaming liberal from the Bronx, first generation emigre, driven from my homeland for treason, heresy and an unorthodox ideology (peaceful pluralism). Plus an unacceptable abhorrence of non-psychotic, rational - or rationalized(?) unapologetic (sound familiar?) killing. Me and ole Gandhi: "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, will leave the world sightless and toothless." And if I'm a card-carrying liberal, is that an AHAH, exonerating moment for you and for your state-sponsored terrorism? A carte blanche ipso facto now we can kill, murder and maim with impunity, tartufe is a liberal. Yeah, kill, kill, kill.

This exchange is fruitless. Starting to embarrass myself. Concession is prudent at this tedium. Go ahead and promote killing, maiming and phosphorous shelling children. Perhaps your reward will be a well deserved one. (One can only hope.) Salem Shalom (iapa).

But in the meantime, surely we aren't still subsidizing this slaughter. But given the wisdom of the best govt money can buy, it can't be a given. So write your representatives. Let em buy their own phosphorus.

ShalomFreedman  07/12/2009 08:39 AM Report

One basic reality seems to escape the mind of the obsessive - Israel-hater who hides behind the name, 'Tartuffe' i.e. that is the difference between a people and society which aims for peace, and uses violence only in self- defense, and one for whom violence is a religious imperative and the means for total destruction of the 'other'.

The fact is that Israel has many times withdrawn and held fire on condition that the other side would do so. Again and again what has happened is that more terror and violence have come from the Palestinians.

I do not believe Israel should apologize for being more effective militarily than its enemies. This is the condition of its survival.

If it were the choice of Israel there would be no casualties on either side. If 'Hamas' and the 'radical Palestinians' had their way all of us Israelis would be dead.

'Tartuffe' comes from somewhere or nowhere far from the 'reality of the ground' and his use of trumped up statistics is a meaningless mind - game.

Wake up ' arm -chair television moralist', the real- world is not in 'U.N. doctored statistics.

tartufe  07/12/2009 12:36 AM Report

Pathological, pathetically pitiful. Your abject denial is sick, the likes of which will assure the hatred, maiming and killing for generations. Again lets measure national integrity by my pet peeve, killing - rationalized or otherwise. Israel has killed over 6.5 times the number of Palestinians than they have Israelis. Over 8.7 times the number of children. Is that enough of a metric of the 'overall context' you refer to?

Did you know that since the ceasefire that started on June 17th until Saturday that ZERO Israelis were killed by Hamas rockets?

Did you know that Israel violated the ceasefire nearly 50 times during the 6 months killing 10s of Palestinians?

Did you know that Israel kept a tight blockade on Gaza cutting fuel, food, medicine and other supplies, even though it was one of the terms of the ceasefire to completely lift the blockade?

Did you know that U.N.'s Special Rapporteur on Human Rights formally accused Israel of Crimes Against Humanity due to it's siege of Gaza?

Did you know that since 2005 Israel has killed or injured 50 Palestinian children for every Israeli child killed or injured?

Humiliation and degradation will go far - keep up the support. Promote those settlements, encroach a little more each day, discontinue their power, water and sewage systems then when they object in some enfeebled way bring out the Nazi brown shirts and shell their children with phosphorous.

In the meantime Congress, please get humane, CUT THESE MURDERERS OFF!!!!

ShalomFreedman  07/11/2009 03:41 PM Report

There is an Israel- and American -hater who posts frequently on Charlie Rose and refuses to identify himself, calling himself ,'Tartufe'.

He is a systematic fact- distorter and largely ignorant of Middle- East realities.

He has no sense of the overall context of the conflict in the Middle East.

He seems focused on Gaza, but seems to be ignorant completely of what is going on there and who Hamas is. He does not seem to know that 'Hamas' is a militant Islamic organization which calls not only for the destruction of Israel, but preaches intolerance towards those of anyone who believes anything other than its own form of radical Islam.

He says nothing about the doctrine of terrorist violence which 'Hamas' has put into practice in its relations with Israel i.e. Its effort to kill civilians and soldiers, any Israeli it can in whatever way it can.

The connections of 'Hamas' to Iran and its doctrine of Islamic supremacisim is also not considered.

As to the actual fighting during 'Operation Cast Lead' this would not have occurred had Israel not been bombarded by rockets for eight years by 'Hamas'. Before the operation in Gaza. Hamas boasted that there would be thousands of Israeli dead. Hamas instead chose to hide its fighters in civilian buildings, and often in civilian clothes. They did not confront Israeli forces directly as they promised they would. Instead they fought a propaganda war in which they tried to provide targets for Israel which would cause an increase in civlian casualties and world outrage at Israel.

Israel did not act as foolishly as Gaza as it did in Lebanon. It did not put soldiers at risk in order to save civilians of the other side.

It protected as best it could its own soldiers.

There were unfortunately civilian casualties on the other side. Israel did its best to avoid and minimize them. The casualty figures are disputed but there is no doubt that there was a much larger proportion of injured and killed on the side of Israel's enemy. I don't think Israel should apologize for that. I think that the ones who should be condemned for this are the big- mouth cowardly 'Hamas' people who started a war which they fought on the backs of their own civilian population.

A person like Tartufe is either a 'dupe' or someone who simply has it in for 'Israel' As he also expresses great hatred for American actions everywhere overseas' my suspicion is that he is a very radical leftist.

It would be a bit more honest of him to state who he is , where he comes from, and what the real philosophical and ideological basis of his opinions is.

That he is outraged at human suffering is commendable. But that he takes the side of those who are most responsible for that suffering is not.

tartufe  07/11/2009 02:28 AM Report

Shalom - where's your pathological Israeli chauvinism? Your Gaza holocaust denial had an ironic twist in it's tale.

The Israeli Nazis are diminishing the original holocausts affects to a hollow-cost. Baby burners that 'intentionally' loaded phosphorous shells to fire on more than one school. Even the most brutalized holocaust victims would decry such brutality. 1300 were killed, 400+ were children; only 13 Israelis. The perpetual 100:1 ratio. Would you like documentation? It describes how the shrapnel embeds in the skin and keeps burning causing ultimate organ failure.

Write your representatives and insist on no further aid to Israel!

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

----- Martin Luther King, Jr.

NoPardonforMichaelMilken  07/11/2009 01:53 AM Report

Nice to see that Martha Raddatz is sober. She and Charlie have had a thing for some time.

tartufe  07/09/2009 03:50 PM Report

"Israeli Soldiers Testify to War Crimes

The PulsePosted March 19, 2009 - 10:01am "During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive," Ha'aretz reported today.

At a lecture at a pre-military academy Israeli soldiers and officers gave personal accounts of murder and brutality.

Ofer Shelah in Ma'ariv:

For the first time since the end of Operation Cast Lead, testimonies have come to the fore of soldiers and officers from different units that took part in the operation. The testimonies . . . paint a harsh picture, very different from the IDF reports: Killing people who were clearly identified as innocent, driving families out of their homes to the open area where a policy was in force according to which whoever remained in the area was not an innocent person and could be shot, acts of vandalism and destroying property and humanitarian supplies, and an atmosphere in which the combatants understood that all this was permitted, and would not be investigated."

So Shalom, between the two of us who gets their facts wrong? Operation CAST LEAD fer crying out loud. With that kind of send off, atrocities were promoted.

It's easy to see why Israel is our ally, as we love to brutalize our young as well. We're both equal parts chicken shit and cowardice. We're each hell on wheels when we have a techno-advantage. Israel tanks and planes etc, we with our CS drone missiles.

Israel is a baby burning bunch of bastards. And my facts are not wrong.

ShalomFreedman  07/09/2009 03:18 PM Report

There is no Israeli state- terrorism, Mister Ignoramus Tartuffe. The Israeli Army historically has been the most careful in the world in regard to limiting civilian casualties on the other side. Unfortunately it faces cruel, inhumane enemies which puts its own civilians in the line of fire as a way of gaining propaganda points which gullible fools like you eagerly eat up.

What fact-escapers like you do not seem to realize is that in taking the case of those who promote terror you are simply encouraging them in their folly- the same folly which has prevented them from missing opportunity after opportunity to give their people peace and a better life.

As for the accusations against the United States they are again the rantings of an ingrate who exploits the freedom the Western world gives.

This does not mean the United States is always right or always wise. But it is the one great nation in the world which has truly promoted human liberty and development.

tartufe  07/09/2009 02:26 PM Report

Would gladly exchange your chutzpah for our pathology. Your calm certitude in reversing the Israeli state-terrorism with a kill ratio of 100:1 - with impunity and the backing of the world's extant superpower - as being pathological is grand chutzpah. Encroach, abuse, dehumanize, degrade, murder and firebomb their children in their schools, make them live in their own excrement and then heap scorn on them qualifies for unforgivably pathological chutzpah.

A US imposed solution has been bought-off; so perhaps a Malthusian / Darwinian solution will prevail long term.

As far as most loyal friend? Some respond: 911. Enemies need not apply. The position is filled, bought and paid for (with our own money).

ShalomFreedman  07/09/2009 07:49 AM Report

It is difficult to reply to each and every anti- Semitic poster individually. But just a few facts. Israel is in fact the only democracy in the Middle East. Its Arab minority citizens(Especially the women) have greater opportunities for education and economic development than in any other Middle- Eastern society. Israel is the most loyal friend the United States has, and has helped it in and regimes friendly to it in innumerable situations. Israeli actions among other things preserved King Hussein 's regime in Jordan, gave the U.S. vital Cold - War intelligence which helped defeat Soviet goals for Middle East expansion.

Israel has made numerous efforts and sacrifices for Peace, and has been rebuffed time and time again. Its recent withdrawal from Gaza did not bring peace, but rather more hostility and rockets upon its citizens.

Those who hate Israel and exalt the suicide- bombers and terrorists who kill civilians with impunity- show their own pathology.

ShalomFreedman  07/09/2009 07:40 AM Report

There were many interesting points made both by Michael Mandelbaum and Martha Raddatz. Mandelbaum's concluding point about the loss of political power which eventually comes to great societies which lose their economic strength, is of course one which many make and will continue to make. The debt- deficit- absense of savings- dependence on foreign funds to sustain the borrowing which helps American have its high standard of living- cannot go on forever.

Raddatz rightly assesses the impatience and frustration of the U.S. Administration with North Korea and Iran. She says the time which Admiral Mullen now estimates must pass before Iran becomes a nuclear power has significantly shortened. It is now between one and three years. She also speaks a bit about the Administration's somewhat contradictory signals to Israel in regard to its acting alone against Iran. However as Mandelbaum and Raddatz both indicate the Obama Administration has been to this point largely working on theory and have not really made major significant changes in the ground. The exception as they both point out is Afghanistan which President Obama has they claim chosen to make 'his war'. They seem to doubt the wisdom of this. I am not an expert but it seems to me also that Afghanistan given its history geography character of population should not be first U.S. priority.

Again what we are seeing is a somewhat disquieting picture of American's current position and overall foreign- policy goals.

AntonGrambihler  07/09/2009 02:20 AM Report

Why is Iran always mentioned and blamed for the problems in the Middle East?

If Israel is an example of a democracy in the Middle East, then why would any other State in the World want to be a Democracy?

Israel was created by a terrorist uprising and has never abided by the United Nations resolution which authorized the taking of land from the Palestine People and giving it to the Terrorists. Israel does not have a signed Constitution. In addition this land called Israel illegally invaded its neighbors and illegally occupies this land and continues to destroy Palestine Homes and builds illegal settlements. Israel treats the Palestine People inhumanely and calls them Terrorists when they try to get their land back from the illegal Israeli Invasion. Why has the United States blocked the investigations of possible massacres of the Palestine People by Israel?

Israel has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT or NNPT). Israel has unregulated Nuclear Weapons. The United States provided Israel with missiles to deliver the Israeli Nuclear Bombs. The United States and Israel threaten Iran with sanctions and possible bombings. I wonder why Iran might want Nuclear Bombs. Why is it wrong for North Korea and Iran to maybe supply weapons to the Palestine Freedom fighters trying to get their land back from the illegal Israeli invasion and occupation, while it is considered OK for the United States a member of the NPT to provide missiles to Israel, a non-member of the NPT, for the delivery of Israeli Nuclear bombs?

Israel Bombed the United States in 1967 and it was covered up. Israel has killed United States Citizens and not been held accountable. Israel has Kidnapped American Citizens and President Obama has not spoken out about it, but he did speak out about recent internal affairs of Iran.

Why is the United States helping fund the rampant racism which allows the Genocide of the Palestine People and denies their right of return for the creation of a Jewish Homeland? Did the United States learn nothing about what happens when land is taken from one people and given to another? Do they not recall what happened when land was taken from Czechoslovakia and given to the Nazis, and the Genocides committed by the Nazis? How many people must die before this Israeli Genocide is called a Holocaust?

Where is the News Media that is suppose to keep the Citizens informed?

If the 100% citizens were informed, do you think they would have supported taking land from the Palestine People and giving it to Terrorists? Do you think that they support funding the continued Racism and Genocide being committed by these Terrorists?

EyesOnYou  07/09/2009 01:56 AM Report

Deja vue all over again. The warmongering drumbeats are back. Charlie don't you ever learn? Aren't we already bankrupt? Israel doesn't want to freeze settlements and wants to start another war. What a sick nation!

hrc  07/08/2009 09:53 PM Report

What an inciteful program, I'll assume the guests are safely back in their padded cells comfy in their nuclear bliss.

REMant  07/08/2009 06:23 PM Report

Actually, I think he said more about his foreign policy in his comments during the Putin breakfast, which I was surprised to find was exactly what I wrote in response to the discussion the night before, and posted here yesterday, than in the speech later. This is to leave other countries alone, listen to and respect them, encourage economic development, and stand up for values of honest dealing, etc. But I think Obama has at least a toe in the past as well, for instance in the pacification effort in Afghanistan, tho he and the brass may feel it is not to be compared with that. It may be that the economic crisis has dictated this, but I don't really think so. It has, or should have, however, pointed up the shortcomings - more precisely, the inequities - of globalization and the kind of monetarist policies still being pushed by ppl like Bergsten of the Peterson Institute.

tartufe  07/08/2009 06:05 PM Report

Duly chastened Shalom. Edit my assertion with "murder of other-than-their-own," if it appeases you in some way. Take your victories where you can, the basic point still stands. We do war and killing by choice. Bombing even in your cited WWII was excessive: German and Japanese cities fire-bombing civilians beyond military reason was rampant (including Nagasaki). Emotionally pardonable perhaps but we seem to enjoy it a bit too much. "Shock and awe," eh? Ask Rumsfeld, Raddatz, McNamara et al.

I'm anti-killing, when America and Israel stop I'll gladly become pro each. Not holding my breath.

ShalomFreedman  07/08/2009 05:22 PM Report

Once again the professional anti- American and anti- Israeli 'Tartufe' makes factual errors and false charges. To say that the U.S. Britain and Israel have caused more casualties than any other nation is ridiculous. The Chinese under Mao murdered tens of millions of their own people. The Soviets murdered tens of millions. The Second World War involved the German Nazi genocide of one- third of the Jewish people and the total casualties of that war were close to fifty million.

The list is long of the mass- murdering nations in the world including the Japanese in the thirties and during the second war, a whole host of Muslim nations including the Iraq of Saddam Hussein and the Syria of Hafez Assad.

The United States saved the world in two world wars, and Western mankind owes its freedom to that great nation.

Hysterical condemnations of it by those who enjoy its liberties are the perverted luxury of the extreme Left today which I suspect the poster 'Tartufe' to be one of.

tartufe  07/08/2009 02:59 PM Report

Mandelbaum’s opium for the masses: “The US is a benign, even beneficial, possessor of a nuclear arsenal. How insulting! As if the world is not aware that Nagasaki was bombed SOLELY to impress Russia with the knowledge that we had the bomb and were sick enough to use it.

With two of the most blood thirsty allies on the planet with nukes, any and all non-nuke nations are totally justified in wanting parity. Judeo-Christians historically have proven to be the most blood-letting nations bar none. Rank all countries top to bottom by number of people killed, murdered, maimed or wounded and the US, Britain and Israel will be at the top. N.B., this includes all Islamic countries. Will the real terrorists please standup?

Tonight’s ‘airing’ of the concept of taking out Iran’s capabilities only proves the point. War mongering is in our genes, our religion, our inhumanity. What other country would be proud of being able to fire drone missiles on mud huts in Pakistan a half a world away in Nevada. We kill and maim because we can, not because of need. Wars of choice, our forte. More for fun and profit and ghoulish dna.

Perhaps our self-inflicted financial crisis will be a blessing in disguise and ultimately force us to withdraw from all three misadventures in Iraq and Af-Pak. Inshallah!

tartufe  07/08/2009 02:59 PM Report

Martha floating orthodoxy for the masses tonight. Espousing outrageous ideas (as a proxy for the Jewish lobby?) re the US or Israel bombing Iran. Floating such a concept as a serious strategy, whether a trial balloon or not, is fatuous and highly inflammatory and irresponsible. She should be de-certified as a creditable journalist. She’s as jingoistic as the generals she loves to cite. Surely with her journalism background she knows, “Words kill!” War mongering b----.

They both made the valid point that AF-Pak is now Obama’s war. As noted before here, Obama will fail on two major points: Af-Pak, and the economic chaos. Either failure should scuttle his quest for a second term. He’s a failure on things that matter. Eloquence be damned.

His pop-star status didn’t play well in Russia. Talking tough to and about Putin was ill advised. All three issues important to Russia should be conceded. Backing off on NATO for Georgia and Ukraine and missile defense would be a cheap price long term.

Damn few wars or concept for wars that we turn down, making Martha’s suggestion all the more insidious. The M-I oligarches and the Jewish lobby must love her. They doubtless own her.