Charlie Rose

Bill_Stearns  07/19/2009 09:45 PM Report

Burg points to universalism as one of the ways out of the permanent Shoah mentality. That is the origin of his "athlete" comment, JoshinJerusalem.

JoshOfJerusalem  05/31/2009 08:18 PM Report

Fascinating interview with Avrum Burg. Unfortunately, neither Charley Rose or his guest did their homework. For most Israelis, the Holocaust is, just as Burg put it, the reality that determines so much of politics and national aspirations. While Burg is unclear about the way out of this consciousness he still insists that it is the only way forward. Yet, in the end the same trauma psyche defines the Arab world. They too use their attachment to their understanding of their history to justify their relationships with the state of Israel. So we have two wrestlers, hitting each other over the head with their own biographies. Will this ever end? Yes, eventually it will. Enlightenment will change the dynamic. While Burg didn’t or couldn’t say it, it will be an Enlightenment of Biblical proportions. This Enlightenment is called the Messianic era. Cryptic and weird as it may sound, the trauma based narratives that we all use to navigate will be disregarded as mere trappings of a so called self. The true self, as a manifestation and a receptacle of Godliness will supplant that old shabby pseudo self.

As to Burg’s comments about Jews and athletics being some sort of new idea, please don’t blind us with such nonsense. All of the great figures of the Bible, were powerful of mind and body. Burg is selling us a silly caricature that smacks of his attempt to ‘position’ himself as the ‘New Jew’.

Baloney!

bribarkett  04/07/2009 02:35 PM Report

In reply to the comments below: Perhaps the Jews need to get past their belief that they have been wronged and build a peaceful society instead of portraying themselves as the perpetual victims of so-called anti-semitic aggression. My point, my friend, is that when it comes to emotional abstractions- "belief," "wronged," "get past," "peaceful," "perpetual victims," et al, "reality" is the chemically encoded abstractions of experience in one's mind/body. Who killed Sadat? Isrealis? No. Inflexible Arabs. Who killed Rabin? Arabs? No. An inflexible Jew. Until we understand that we are all biologically predisposed to defend (some violently)against our negative attributes by attacking those whose negative attributes we blame for the creation of our misery, all we will create is more destruction in a world where destruction is getting easier to create all the time.

spellettieri  04/06/2009 07:01 PM Report

In reply to the comments below; Perhaps the Palestinians need to get past their belief that they have been wronged and build a peaceful society and an economy instead of portraying themselves as the perpetual victims of so-called Israeli aggression. They keep their people living in "refugee" camps 40+ years after the fact, despite the fact that they receive more aid per capita than anyone else in the world. They also need to rise from the ashes and start being a partner in peace than a terrorist/propaganda machine.

bribarkett  04/06/2009 05:40 PM Report

Finally, a higher level of analysis that takes into account the contagious effects of trauma. Hitler traumatizes the Jews. The Jews traumaitze the Palestinians. The Palestinians create suicide bombers who, like metastisized cancer cells deliver trauma wherever they go. Trauma physically changes the brain. It results in paranoia- panic in the assessment of threat. If one cannot accurately assess threat, it becomes prudent to make more Type One errors (over-reaction) than Type Two errors (under-reaction). Life becomes a series of self-fulfilling paranoid prophesies and violent reactions. Until we understand ourselves as biological organisms- alike rather than dissimilar- with biological strengths and limits of perception and choice, we will continue to misdiagnose the human condition.

hrc  04/03/2009 07:14 PM Report

Yes, and regardless, Iran is the problem, of course, how blind of me.

tartufe  04/03/2009 01:46 AM Report

Jews and Jewishness are an enigma for me. They seem to have an entitled license to brutish behavior, rationalized perhaps, through the imprimatur of the holocaust. A twist of the golden rule?

REMant's sign off should read, ". . . like we are doing and will continue to do until we are done." Jews and Jewishness will doubtless be the linchpin. Armageddon T-corn-pone.

SimplyMonica  04/03/2009 12:30 AM Report

I really enjoyed this interview with Avraham Burg. I remembered him from a previous show and have been looking forward to hearing more from him.

Though Avraham talks only about the Jews, I found his comments to be universal. The notion of having to rise above past adversity in order to create future prosperity is one that needs to be applied globally. There are so many countries that have suffered atrocities that have been stuck for far longer than the Jews. (The Irish Catholics and Protestants were stuck for how long before peace?) I appreciate Avraham’s lack of patience with the stagnancy. I agree that healing and forgiveness are keys to rising up.

What occurs to me though is that there is a distinction between the "haves" and the "have nots" that is important. It is easier for the "haves" to see the obvious need to rise up... After the trauma is over their daily life isn't painful.

When I look at countries like Pakistan, India, and most of the African continent... where so many people live in abject poverty... I wonder how these countries can become un-stuck. How can they rise up to create future prosperity for themselves?