Charlie Rose Science Series
Click here to watch previous episodes of the Charlie Rose Science Series
04/24/2008
Charlie Wilson
A conversation with Charlie Wilson
Keywords:
A conversation with Charlie Wilson, Former Congressman (d) Texas. He is best known for leading Congress into supporting the largest-ever CIA covert operation, which supplied the Afghan mujahideen during the Soviet war in Afghanistan and subject of the recent film starring Tom Hanks, Charlie Wilson's War.
DVD
Charlie Rose DVDs on Amazon.
Charlie Rose DVDs on Amazon.
Audio
Audio available through Audible.com.
Audio available through Audible.com.
Transcripts
Transcripts available through Voxant.
Transcripts available through Voxant.
@Yevgeny: The sentence you were angry about was: "I despise bullies", not "I despise bulletts". I found it a little strange, that C. Wilson mentioned, that the film was true to the book - what about the film being true to the truth? Although this was implied later on, in my opinion a question about that would have been the natural follow-up question. BTW, the film was the best I've seen in 2008 thus far.
The movie was fantastic!
Wilson is a "person" who destroyed Afganistan... If not for his action, Afganistan could have a chance to be a normal country... look what it is now... bloody maniac who had thirst for russian blood... Wilson: "I despise bullets".. oh, what a hypocrite...
Charlie, You asked George Shultz why we live in a consumer society, not a saving society (like China, etc.). A very fine documentary called "Century of the Self", written and produced by the BBC's Adam Curtis explains it well. The film describes the story of Edward Bernay's (Sigmund Freud's nephew) in New York. He mastered the art of propaganda(a.k.a. "public relations"). The documentary makes the case that his skill of linking consumerism with democracy and a progrssive future laid the foundation for our current consumer culture. This evolved as the techniques of corporate P.R. were adopted by the advertising industry and the political class. It is well worth your time ...and is available for viewing on Google video and YouTube. It was an eye-opener for me!!
Men tend to fear what they do not know or understand. Since America and the West in general do not understand Eastern culture we fear it. Out of that fear men like Vice Presidnet Cheney will stop at nothing in their quest to protect us from the threat that our ignorance perpetuates.
Dear Charlie, It should be noted that Mr. Wilson was deceitful in claiming he has spent his time since acting as a Congressman simply relaxing at home. According to Bill Moyers' wonderful "Journal", he became a lobbyist for the arms industry. Referring to the current war against the Taliban, he said, "Charlie Wilson won't be around to help this time. He retired from Congress and became a lobbyist for the defense industry. His firm also received $30,000 a month to represent Pakistan in Washington." Here's the source: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02222008/transcript2.html He was right to oppose Soviets picking on a weak country like Afghanistan, but I find it hypocritical that he fails to see the long history of American brutalization for the lower classes of Latin America by funding dictatorial leaders who favored the rich and the white, while training their troops in cruel tactics with the School of the Americas. Far from a hero, if you ask me.
Yes Charlie, you inform and entertain us to no end. You should never be tarred or punished for the comments that your viewers leave here. We do not want Jeremiah Wright guilt by association nonsensical principles extended to this exalted space. You provide a stage where, through intelligent conversation, the human condition, especially human achievement and failure, can be laid bare, scrutinized, so that we may try to understand it, learn from it, see ourselves reflected in it, and delight in it. The really amazing thing about the achievement to which your guest is partly responsible, is that it was attained without overtly throwing away certain values and freedoms at home that our predecessors spent hundreds of years cultivating and weaving into the fabric of life in the western world. It is amazing that a less powerful enemy would lead to such a collapse... that is why I have a grudging respect for the power of fear now, and how it is possible and easy in conditions of fear for corrosive leaders to gain power in, and for holocausts to be perpetrated by, highly advanced nations. Now we are left with the disquieting feeling that a people who pontificate about democracy, human rights, habeas corpus, the rule of law, not practicing torture, etc., will readily cast all of that aside at a moment of crisis. We are persuaded to come to terms with the fact that what we took for granted to be enduring is not; eternal vigilance is required. We are left believing that the hypocrisy and the Emperors' Club syndrome lies far deeper and wider than one could ever have imagined. So we need America the beautiful to rise to its current challenge, which also may require the spending of hundreds of billions of dollars, but perhaps in different ways this time as the challenge is truly different. We are not going to wipe all of these people off the face of the earth since we have tended to create more than we eliminate by the way we have hitherto crafted and executed our policies. I guess the ironic thing about your guest's achievement, is that it is inextricably linked to the creation of some of the perpetrators of this challenge, particularly the empowerment of the most virulent and extremist Muslim fighters and terrorist organization in the world. So let us approach this with a lot more intelligence, wisdom and longer-term view.
(1) Charlie (Rose) addressed the question that was in the back of my mind: what kind of contact did US personnel have with Osama bin Laden during that period in the 1980 when we effectively were allies in the effort to make life miserable for the Soviet military? But Wilson responded that he thought that bin Laden never had been in Afghanistan and that their paths would not have crossed because by then bin Laden was in the Sudan. ??? Bin Laden did not set up operations in the Sudan until 1992. I think I remember reading that during the fighting in Afghanistan Osama acted primarily as a paymaster, channeling money from Saudi Arabia to the mujahadeen and probably would have been in Pakistan frequently -- whether or not he actually crossed into Afghanistan. Wilson's reply is tad puzzling. (2) One wonders if perhaps today there is a Mohammed Wilson playing a parallel Iranian role, providing arms and training to what he might view as Iraqi indigenous freedom fighters taking on a superpower that has invaded Iran's neighboring Muslim nation.
Am I missing something? Why do I not care to deify Mr. Wilson? Afghanistan will be no more of a victory for us than the Russians I'm betting. What's the crowing about? A lot of smug, arrogant puerile bs. More of our jingoistic M-I complex preening in our egomaniacal mirror.
I thought helping the Afghani resistance was unnecessary at the time and that the Soviets could no more win there than we could have in Vietnam in the long run, but there were/are always ppl in the US who have no faith in anything other than military action. People who thought the Soviets could have extended their sphere of influence over this area did not know the history. We would have been better off paying more attention to our relationship with the Arab world in general. As it turned out all of it was irrelevant since we squandered whatever goodwill we had acquired. Further I think this episode had no real influence on the collapse of the Soviet Union. In retrospect this type of thing, like Iran-Contra laid the groundwork for the kind of illegal and subversive activity the Bush administration has undertaken.