Charlie Rose Science Series
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04/14/2008
Joe Klein, Dick Polman
Continued discussion about the Pennsylvania Primary
Keywords:
Continued discussion about the Pennsylvania Primary with Joe Klein of Time and Dick Polman of the Philadelphia Inquirer.
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Transcripts available through Voxant.
Transcripts available through Voxant.
Mr Ed Barry is right on. I don't feel alone in this world anymore...Thank you Ed!!!
Simple math: no words equal no quote.
It is extremely disappointing that Hillary Clinton is feeding into a typical Fox News stereotype of Democrats, a bogus stereotype, that has been effectively perpetuated to undermine the real message voters should hear and understand. It doesn't bode well for the fundamental concept of democracy when people consistently vote against their own self interests to vote for non issues like Guns, God, and Gays. People are so deceived by propaganda, and Hillary Clinton is capitalizing on ignorance, fostering the very hostile labels used against her for years. Clinton is certainly not behaving like a team player, a Democrat, or anything remotely close to a progressive. Clinton is clearly a Republican, willing to isolate the Democratic Party to appeal to the right.
Obama: I didnt mean it and I am sorry I mispoke. No, I meant it and I am not sorry. Oh move on, you obviously just arent smart enough to know what I meant.
The recent hear say defaming rumors and half truth recording depicting Sen. Barack Obama as elitist is nothing but a desperate call for attention to magnifying the size of a mole into a mountain, this would have very little to no effect at the end of the day despite what the Clinton political machine wishes to make it. It is "find a cover issue," for the Clintonites. They are running away from their recent three back to back debacle, ++a senior campaign leader was busted in squeezing Colombia into the NAFTA deal++, ++Sen. Hillary Clinton told the national television three different time of the day how she was ducking bullets while getting off the plane in Bosnia, and how the greeting was cancelled++, ++ Former Pres. Bill Clinton lying about why Hillary fumbled on the bullet ducking issue++ These are few to mention "cover me up issues." The fact is economically depressed society has more problems than other wise. Due to hopelessness, some turn into substance abuse such as drugs and alcohols, while others turn into xenophobic toward others for the successes they have. If one thing history has thought us, economic difficulties not only create a means for the destruction of an individual(s) but also countries go to devastating wars. While respecting people's religious values is important but describing the event accurately does not call for all the attentions it has gotten over the weekend. == It is true that many turn to supernatural force and seek the intervention of that supernatural force when their economic prospect in life turns down, and some who are angered and frustrated by such downturn resort into violence to secure a means of income. However the solution is also there. If there is equality and hope for all, those who turn into illegal activities to secure a means of living may not be forced into the activities they are engaged in. What he said was not out of normal explanation to basic socioeconomic theory. In many of violent societies there is deep entrenched economic problem. In places where there is economic depression, there is also substance abuse and prostitution the two most important precursors of violence. You don't see such problems at places that are economically well off, they tend to get busy living lives, while those with less opportunities are confined into misery and hopelessness, which forces them to take greater risk to secure their means of income, if that would mean to be driven into guns, then they will do it. == With Sunday night's one-on-one interview with CNN, I am satisfied with the explanations he gave, and I still think he is the man of the new century and the only hope America has to get back on her feet and past glorious times. It's time to let nature take its course and bring the right leader to lift America. That right leader is none other than Sen. Barack OBAMA!
Obama: I didnt mean it. Oh yes, I did.
It's astonishing to hear so much back and forth about "religion" during this political campaign, at least as Americans define it. Americans are simultaneously the most fanatic religionists in the world and by their own "religious" standards the most corrupt, sinful and irreligious people in the world. For religion to be any kind of issue in this political debate seems to those of us who are not American a further sign that America has utterly lost its bearings; and that far from being the "agent" of the "second coming" or the "rapture" as it is known, blah blah blah, America has become a cesspool of greed, moral turpitude and hypocrisy, a country of killers and liars with very white teeth. When George W. Bush asserted that his favorite thinker (or whatever that was) is Jesus Christ he really spoke for all Americans, who somehow think that simply stating something makes it so. I'm saddened, for I have loved America, before it became the most "religious" country in the universe.
We need to see this 2004 interview on mainstream newscasts. Obama twisted his words last week, but his message was clear. The Clinton campaign attacks will fall to pieces when the voters see how hollow her claims are.
It is sad to think that we are now looking for presidents who appeal to the people who are "undereducated" and just plain folks. That you have to have a boilermaker for breakfast to be chief executive. Don't those little old white ladies over 50 remember the night that the Kennedys entertained the Noble Laureates in the White House and Casals played the cello? Does it always have to be pork rinds and beer?
Charlie, I've watched your show for years but I really can't take much more of the one-sided shows pushing Mr. Obama. I could do without any more discussion of elitism by three very well-off politicians who I don't think even understand the problems of this country. Your very short piece with T.R. Reid on his upcoming Frontline show was of more value than the overdone comments of Sen. Casey. Why not ask the candidates why we can't have the same health access that most of the civilized world enjoys.
I have watched Obama's interview of 23 November 2004 on Charlie Rose where he spoke about rural America. Frankly, I am shocked that the media have not sort out that clip to get a true understanding of Obama's position. In the quest for victory at any price, Hillary is 'clinging' to any straw. What is more surprising most of the mainstream press is in tow; I guess for sound bites and sensationalism. The American presidential campaign is rapidly sinking to the level of Zimbabwe. At a time when many Americans are losing their jobs and their homes, when America and the world is under threat of global warming and a financial meltdown, its press is engaged in trivial distortions. Unbelievable!!!
I am suprised you didn't comment on your 2004 interview. None of the candidates operate in "off the cuff" mode. Something in Sen Obama's bitter comments didn't seem right. Now I see it was his reach back to an old stump speech from 2004. The Dems have to prove it is worthwhile to vote on the economic issues Obama has been trumpeting in Pennsylvania. All the while he still observes small town blue collar workers relating easier to social/cultural issues than to populist Demm ideals. Put in context, he has work to do, but was not disrespectful to the voters. Sen. Obama needs to clarify this and to see another Demm taking advantage of this is regretable.
Obama is getting dissed for being intelligent - what a deal; you have to be a Homer to run the country? I have no optimism left for politics; how can you be competent and appeal to the lowest common denominator at once. We are going to get the future we deserve. note to "Grace" - too much computer time at the group home??? Say Good Night Gracie.
Klein and Polman are correct: the country and world have grave problems with which our Democratic presidential hopefuls should be wrestling. Instead the Clinton campaign floats chickenshit "issues" to get traction from an unfortunate reality: the American electorate is (in the main?) incapable of exercising its civic responsibilities in a useful way.
Fie! Et tu, Charlie? I've watched thousands of Charlie Roses. I could not believe that you had on three men talking about this clinging to guns, religion, and hate controversy. Mr. Casey spent 21 minutes in a softball, warm & fuzzy, platitudinous free ad for Mr. Obama. Joe Klein is so rabidly anti-Hillary that I'm surprised you didn't supply kleenex to wipe the frothing from his lips. Mr. Polman started out faux judicious and ended up doing bumper stickers for Mr. Obama. It was so depressing. You couldn't have found a woman who wasn't of the dowd-channels-rove variety, say? I really thought Charlie Rose was sort of an oasis from the Fettered Press, in thrall to what? Palaver about unity? (Tell that to Grover Norquist.) There is no place to go on tv that isn't 90% unpaid media for Mr. Obama. (Yes, I know you had on Gov Rendell, but that wasn't about a monumental tank-ride, windsurfing controversy.) It's sickening.
I enjoyed the show a great deal. I was struck by Joe Klein's last sentence fragment, which made perfect sense in the context of worrying about whether Obama's base supporters would vote for Clinton in November. The fragment was that 'young people would sit home and play their video games.' (instead of showing up to vote). I don't have tape recorder so I may not have it verbatim. I wonder; how would Joe Klein feel if tomorrow a columnist for rival news organization attacked him for ageism and insulting the values, life-style and commitment of our fine young men and women, some of whom are risking their lives for their country in Iraq and Afghanistan? Isn't that exactly what Hillary did to Obama? Take the end of his remarks out of context and twist them.
Why was there no discussion of your clip of a '04 interview with Obama where he said essentially the same thing then that he is now being castigated and labeled elitist. Did you consider him an elitist then? What did Klien and the other guest thing of that interview?
Hillary is the elitist, and votes more like a rebpublican than a democrat. And ask any psychologist what people turn to when they get so angry at being marginalized-they get apathetic, or turn to security ie, guns or religion. Obama is a reatlist and Hillary is trying to put him in a slot he doesn't deserve from what I've seen, not from what people say about him. And I'm a frustrated primary care physician forced to seek work from the state after 50 years of service because of people like Hillary and McCain. They are the elitists; too bad you didn't get a better spokesman for him.
As usual Charlie Rose has intellegent people making intellegent comments. Great show.
great show tonite. you were able to show that Obama was right when he said he misspoke. the interview you did with him in 2004 showed his attitude towards small town America (there are small towns in illinois too).it behooves everyone to accept the apology of a man who said he misspoke. if you believe in God, you forgive. God Bless America
Very disappointing program tonight. I always thought Charlie Rose was more professional than this. This show was an Obama love-in. Shame on Charlie Rose!! A better topic would have been all the offended people in this country now living in small towns who Obama has said, out of "bitterness," are "clinging" to their guns and church. Elitism has nothing to do with annual income. Obama is an elitist, pure and simple.
IT'S DISGUSTING WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THESE MEN. TIME, JOE KLEIN, CHARLIE ROSE. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE. THEY DO NOT SPEAK FOR AMERICANS WHO LOVE AND ADORE HILLARY AND THINK THIS GUY OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH. GOT IT? I CAN'T BEAR IT. YOU KNOW WHO HILLARY'S ALIENATED???? THE BIG BAD BOYS SWINGING D...CK CLUB. THAT'S WHO. AND RICH ANGLO SAXON WAS LIMOUSINE LIBERALS WITH TRUST FUNDS AND NOTHING TO DO BUT FETE "THEIR BOY" TO MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE "THEY'RE INVOLVED." 'SHOULD WE DO TENNIS OR OBAMA? " GOT IT? ELITIST DOESN'T BEGIN TO DESCRIBE HIS "DEMOGRAPHIC" RICH LADIES WITH NOTHING TO DO BUT HAVE PARTIES TO RAISE MONEY FOR "THEIR BOY." GET A GRIP CHARLIE. YOU'RE OFF THE MARK COMPLETELY BY SUPPORTING THIS GUY, OBAMA. THERE'S A PIECE IN THE ASIA TIMES THROUGH BBC AND IT'S "THE DIRT" ON LITTLE BOY OBAMA AND HIS MOTHER, PLEASE, ON FOOD STAMPS??????? This is the first page.... it's fascinating: The Headline Reads: Obama's women reveal his secret By Spengler "Cherchez la femme," advised Alexander Dumas in: "When you want to uncover an unspecified secret, look for the woman." In the case of Barack Obama, we have two: his late mother, the went-native anthropologist Ann Dunham, and his rancorous wife Michelle. Obama's women reveal his secret: he hates America. We know less about Senator Obama than about any prospective president in American history. His uplifting rhetoric is empty, as Hillary Clinton helplessly protests. His career bears no trace of his own character, not an article for the Harvard Law Review he edited, or a single piece of legislation. He appears to be an empty vessel filled with the wishful thinking of those around him. But there is a real Barack Obama. No man - least of all one abandoned in infancy by his father - can conceal the imprint of an impassioned mother, or the influence of a brilliant wife. America is not the embodiment of hope, but the abandonment of one kind of hope in return for another. America is the spirit of creative destruction, selecting immigrants willing to turn their back on the tragedy of their own failing culture in return for a new start. Its creative success is so enormous that its global influence hastens the decline of other cultures. For those on the destruction side of the trade, America is a monster. Between half and nine-tenths of the world's 6,700 spoken languages will become extinct in the next century, and the anguish of dying peoples rises up in a global cry of despair. Some of those who listen to this cry become anthropologists, the curators of soon-to-be extinct cultures; anthropologists who really identify with their subjects marry them. Obama's mother, the University of Hawaii anthropologist Ann Dunham, did so twice. Obama profiles Americans the way anthropologists interact with primitive peoples. He holds his own view in reserve and emphatically draws out the feelings of others; that is how friends and colleagues describe his modus operandi since his days at the Harvard Law Review, through his years as a community activist in Chicago, and in national politics. Anthropologists, though, proceed from resentment against the devouring culture of America and sympathy with the endangered cultures of the primitive world. Obama inverts the anthropological model: he applies the tools of cultural manipulation out of resentment against America. The probable next president of the United States is a mother's revenge against the America she despised. Ann Dunham died in 1995, and her character emerges piecemeal from the historical record, to which I will return below. But Michelle Obama is a living witness. Her February 18 comment that she felt proud of her country for the first time caused a minor scandal, and was hastily qualified. But she meant it, and more. The video footage of her remarks shows eyes hooded with rage as she declares: For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. The desperation, frustration and disappointment visible on Michelle Obama's face are not new to the candidate's wife; as Steve Sailer, Rod Dreher and other commentators have noted, they were the theme of her undergraduate thesis, on the subject of "blackness" at Princeton University. No matter what the good intentions of Princeton, which founded her fortunes as a well-paid corporate lawyer, she wrote, "My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my 'Blackness' than ever before. I have found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong." Never underestimate the influence of a wife who bitch-slaps her husband in public. Early in Obama's campaign, Michelle Obama could not restrain herself from belittling the senator. "I have some difficulty reconciling the two images I have of Barack Obama. There's Barack Obama the phenomenon. He's an amazing orator, Harvard Law Review, or whatever it was, law professor, best-selling author, Grammy winner. Pretty amazing, right? And then there's the Barack Obama that lives with me in my house, and that guy's a little less impressive," she told a fundraiser in February 2007. "For some reason this guy still can't manage to put the butter up when he makes toast, secure the bread so that it doesn't get stale, and his five-year-old is still better at making the bed than he is." New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd reported at the time, "She added that the TV version of Barack Obama sounded really interesting and that she'd like to meet him sometime." Her handlers have convinced her to be more tactful since then. "Frustration" and "disappointment" have dogged Michelle Obama these past 20 years, despite her US$300,000 a year salary and corporate board memberships. It is hard for the descendants of slaves not to resent America. They were not voluntary immigrants but kidnap victims, subjected to a century of second-class citizenship even after the Civil War ended slavery. Blackness is not the issue; General Colin Powell, whose parents chose to immigrate to America from the West Indies, saw America just as other immigrants do, as a land of opportunity. Obama's choice of wife is a failsafe indicator of his own sentiments. Spouses do not necessarily share their likes, but they must have their hatreds in common. Obama imbibed this hatred with his mother's milk. Michelle Obama speaks with greater warmth of her mother-in-law than of her husband. "She was kind of a dreamer, his mother," Michelle Obama was quoted in the January 25 Boston Globe. "She wanted the world to be open to her and her children. And as a result of her naivete, sometimes they lived on food stamps, because sometimes dreams don't pay the rent. But as a result of her naivete, Barack got to see the world like most of us don't in this country." How strong the ideological motivation must be of a mother to raise her children on the thin fair in pursuit of a political agenda. "Naivete" is a euphemism for Ann Dunham's motivation. Friends describe her as a "fellow traveler", that is, a communist sympathizer, from her youth, according to a March 27, 2007, Chicago Tribune report. Many Americans harbor leftist views, but not many marry into them, twice. Ann Dunham met and married the Kenyan economics student Barack Obama, Sr, at the University of Hawaii in 1960, and in 1967 married the Indonesian student Lolo Soetero. It is unclear why Soetero's student visa was revoked in 1967 - the fact but not the cause are noted in press accounts. But it is probable that the change in government in Indonesia in 1967, in which the leftist leader Sukarno was deposed, was the motivation. Soetero had been sponsored as a graduate student by one of the most radical of all Third World governments. Sukarno had founded the so-called Non-Aligned Movement as an anti-colonialist turn at the 1955 Bandung Conference in Indonesia. Before deposing him in 1967, Indonesia's military slaughtered 500,000 communists (or unfortunates who were mistaken for communists). When Ann Dunham chose to follow Lolo Soetero to Indonesia in 1967, she brought the six-year-old Barack into the kitchen of anti-colonialist outrage, immediate following one of the worst episodes of civil violence in post-war history. Dunham's experience in Indonesia provided the material for a doctoral dissertation celebrating the hardiness of local cultures against the encroaching metropolis. It was entitled, "Peasant blacksmithing in Indonesia: surviving against all odds". In this respect Dunham remained within the mainstream of her discipline. Anthropology broke into popular awareness with Margaret Mead's long-discredited Coming of Age in Samoa (1928), which offered a falsified ideal of sexual liberation in the South Pacific as an alternative to the supposedly repressive West. Mead's work was one of the founding documents of the sexual revolution of the 1960s, and anthropology faculties stood at the left-wing fringe of American universities. In the Global South, anthropologists went into the field and took matters a step further. Peru's brutal Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path) guerilla movement was the brainchild of the anthropologist Continued NO FOOD STAMPS HERE
I'm listening to your program, specifically. the Pennsylvania senator. Did Obama pay for tonight's program? Sounds and looks like it.