Charlie Rose Science Series
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The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How The War on Terror Turned into a War on American Ideals
by Jane Mayer
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by Jane Mayer
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03/20/2008
Robert Thurman, Orville Schell, Pico Iyer, Tashi Rabgey
A discussion about unrest in Tibet
A discussion about unrest in Tibet with Pico Iyer, Tashi Rabgey, Orville Schell and Robert Thurman. Last week anti-government riots in Tibet and a crackdown by authorities has led to calls by Tibet activist groups to stop the Olympic torch relay from going through the region before the Beijing Summer Olympics.
Dear Charlie Rose, thank you for this discussion. How can the Dalai Lama hope to stop suffering of his people if he is inflicting harm on them as well? To get freedom you have to give freedom, but the Dalai Lama is giving no freedom to Dorje Shugden practitioners in India. This 'man of peace' is denying them food, shelter, education and travel visas for worshipping a Buddha traditionally revered by millions for four hundred years. His own Teachers practised it too, but he says they are "wrong". So much for the love, compassion and religious tolerance he preaches everywhere! http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/ http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/ If the Dalai Lama gives religious freedom he may, in time, experience freedom for his people, otherwise it probably isn't possible.
"Consent manufacturing" in making ! Good job in portraying a one-sided, biased view of Tibetan history and what the protests were about. The truth, in the eyes of 1.4 Billion Chinese people both inside China and overseas, inclusing those live in the west, is that the protests are about the Dalai Lama people trying to take advantage of the upcoming Olypmics to draw attention to their unjust separatism cause. They are doomed to fail. Read ths following article for more understanding on the Dalai Lama. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/may/29/downwiththedalailama
Some of the comments are as interesting as the discussion... Maps reflect the mapmakers - long acknowledged - i wouldn't get to caught up in that thot. Tibetans have considered themselves separate and that makes the distinction -- also, known differences in language, culture etc - support that as well. There were, in past, relationships with China -- good/bad. Anyway -- great show -- thanks!
Piece of junk...
two many people with different opinions...let it be, calm down.....
This program is brainwash in the making. Mr. Rose, decence matters! http://newschecker.blogspot.com/2008/03/xizang-tibet-was-not-part-of-china.html http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY Has anyone told you before there was an "Opium War"? Has any your text book tells people after 'opium war" UK invaded chinese tibet twice and try to create the so called "Independant Tibet"? Truth is: There is no Lion in tibet snow mountain; That is on UK royal flag! It is a shame try to use religion, ethnicity, human rights as a cover to process the same old dream. Wake up to the reality! This is the New China!
The name Dalai Lama was given by most famous Mongolian king Genghis Khan. Dalai lama means the ocean of wisdom. And Dalai lama truely deserves this name. Mongolia is Mongolia, Tibet is Tibet and China is China. Don't mix them please. Chinese people are denied their own history. School kids in China are taught that Mao Zedong is father of nation but they are not taught that Mao is responsible for 30 to 60 million deaths. FREE CHINA.. FREE TIBET..
It's more like culture conflict than cold war thought.
Robert Thurman Professor at Columbia University claims that there were no Chinese living in Tibet before 1950. I thought Princess Wencheng who was from the Tang Court in China married Songtsän Gampo (founder of the Tibetian Empire). It states in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Wencheng that she even had a hand to bring Buddhism to Tibet. He is an expert? Orville Schell says he thinks this is how China sees it. ?????? Can I take him seriously after making this statement? He isn't even Chinese. So what if he works at the Asia Society! If I worked at an airport does that make me an airplane? The Dali Lama (which is a term given by the Chinese) claims that the Chinese have no experience with Tibet? Lack of knowledge? President Hu Jintao spent most of his adult life as the Party Chief of the Tibet Autonomous Region. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao It was also the Chinese that made the term "Dali Lama"! I had a lot of respect for the Dali Lama before tonight, but the more I research this the more I'm convinced there is something fishy going on. I can answer what this is all about. Its about slandering the Beijing Olympics. Do you think the timing is a coincidence? I found this book. http://www.amazon.com/CIAs-Secret-War-Tibet/dp/0700611592 What is that? Is this a continuation of the Cold War? We were involved in Cuba. Remember the overthrow of the Shah with the British for Oil? Read this: http://www.workers.org/2008/world/anti-china_olympics_0403/ This is only one night of research. I suggest you look into it yourself and draw your own conclusions. When the Spanish American War happened we didn't really have conclusive evidence to go to war with Spain. We never proved the USS Maine was blown up by Spain. But we sure wanted Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines for US interest. The media got the public mad "Yellow Journalism" and then the US government had reason to go to war. Are we being manipulated? I also learned that some of the videos that show Chinese crackdowns are from Nepalese police. You should see what they did to Tibetian protesters in NY.
Tibet is only a place in China! Other country should not bother China's own business! Thanks, guys!
It is a shallow discussion on Tibet. The truth of the matter is that the governments across the world have and contninue to bury the truth about Tibet and justice because the world today is awed by Chinese red political power and money. The scholars that be are making money out of the Tibetan tragedy - like vultures feeding on the carcass of an animal rotting in the wilderness. The Chinese, who only understand brutality, knows that it can totally disregard world opinion which is impotent without any mechanism to save and free Tibet. At the end of the day, today only only political power and money matters - not truth or justice. The world is a poorer place to live because human values of fairness, truth and justice have no meaning today!
THANK YOU MR. ROSE FOR THE WONDERFUL PROGRAM. I ALSO WISH THERE WAS A CHINESE SCHOLAR AMONG THE GUESTS SO TO LEVEL THE DISCUSSION FIELD. ANYWAYS,CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY'S HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD IS JUST A CLICK AWAY IN GOOGLE. -60 MILLION DIED UNDER MAO DURING CULTURAL REVOLUTION. -1.2 MILLION LIVES OF TIBETAN PEOPLE. -30,000 YOUTHS KILLED DURING TAINANMEN SQ. MASSACRE. -1.5 MILLION BEIJING RESIDENTS LOST HOME FOR NEW CONSTRUCTIONS FOR OLYMPICS. SUPPORT HUMAN RIGHTS IN CHINA!
just a bunch of crap talking about crap - none knows anything whatsoever - does thurman know anything about his trade? can he at leaset read some old maps? another charlatan
The Chinese can learn a lot from the way Western powers treated the indigenous peoples. They can learn from the British and divide Tibet into the Western and Eastern Tibets. Then create disputed territories b/w them so that they can constantly fight against each other and the Chinese then can play god. They should also learn from the Belgians. They should measure Tibetans nose height and ear length and categorize them into Tutsi Tibetans and Hutu Tibetans. Let them kill each other so the Chinese can be their saviors. They of course can learn from the Americans. Give them alcohol and drug, give them a cut of the gambling profits. That way you can get rid of their religion without being called committing cultural genocide. Once the Chinese have achieved all those, they can claim they are the defender of human rights and religious freedom.
and more... http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY
check these maps and story. That "pundit" just a lier. http://newschecker.blogspot.com/2008/03/xizang-tibet-was-not-part-of-china.html http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10870258&top_story=1
I don't think that lady introduced as Tibetan is actually a Tibetan. She sounded more Chinese leaning than Tibetan. May be she is a Tibetan but not really involved or uneducated in Tibetan issue. It is surprising that the head of the Tibetan studies department does not have energy or the information to eluciate Tibetan issue. Charlie Rose could have found a better person to represent Tibetans. She did not do represent our side properly, may be on purpose. Free Tibet.
Long live His holiness the Dalai Lama and long live his words and constant acts of compassion, peace, truth and objectivity. No body in this world can and will replace a man like him! No body in this can world can give birth to a true Tibetan freedom fighter like him who has got patience, as well as intelligence and of course diligence.. I, like many Tibetans and the citizens of this world is indebted eternally to him. His holiness is my spiritual guru as well as my model of peace,justice and non-violent Tibetan struggle. I will work hard to follow him as his words have substance and objectivity. I will remember always why tibetan issue has received substantial international sympathy and I will promote and work for peaceful tibetan movement, despite being provoked constantly by circumstances, and will seek for justice and dignity in Tibet through effective autonomy as that's the only path we have and we must, I believe. Under all the international circumstances, I don't see any other viable and sustainable alternative other than non violent movement for a stronger autonomy in Tibet and dialogue between Chinese and Tibetans! I repeat, this is not His holiness, this is my words and my objective out of pragmatism, in Tibetan struggle!Bhod gyalo!
Stupid people are everywhere...
yeah i totally support views put forth by Alex. The struggle in Tibet is not against Chinese people coz whether they agree or not the fact is they dont have a choice and have to live under CCP which doesnt accept dissenting voice. Chinese people belong to a great nation and civilisation which doesnt starts with CCP. Chinese and Tibetan can live side by side harmoniously and harmony and human values are the spirit of Olympics so Chinese nation celebrating that spirit should definitely be cheered. The problem is not the nation but the regime which has too much blood of Chinese (Tianenmen is just one incident), Tibetans, Burmese, Vietnamese, Darfurians, Uighurs, and Olympics to the regime in Beijing is not a celebration of humanity but a macabre dance over dead.
I appreciate the intelligent discussions among the participants mostly without the useless rhetotic of the politicians. I do want to point out the danger of politicizing the Beijing Olympics to a point of no return. The chinese people look for the Olympics as an ooportunity to connect with the rest of the world. They have openned their heart, so to speak, to the rest of the world. There is great danger to take this lightly and to hurl insults to a people offering their utmost hospitality. The backslassh can be long lasting. We have already seen chinese questioning on the neutrality and truthfulness of the western media from the grass root level during the recent tibetan protest/riot. It will be unimaginable if the Beijing Olympics turn into a show of the western righteousness against the chinese evilness.
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I just saw the program aired March 20th, 2008 featuring several speakers; one of which was a Tashi Rapgey. First correction to be noted is this is a male name not a female, which she was most certainly. I'm sure the Charlie Rose show could have found anyone better versed on Tibets current condition than her. I have several problems with listening to her. A professor of Tibetan Studies in University of Virginia no less. Not from what I heard, I think she may be Chinese rather than Tibetan. Perhaps its her business interests in Tibet that kept her from stating facts and avoiding the questions poised to her. Being disappointed in her doesn't begin to describe the feeling I have for her.
I wish the invited Chinese representative had come to this Talk Show. I guess Chinese govt only understands and values the power of gun.
Hi World,the Chinese came to liberate Tibet without any invitation or call.Tibetan inside & outside Tibet had been calling the World for Liberation from China since 5 decades. I am sure the Worlld has less good people to hear us. IS IT WORTH WAITING FOR TOO LONG IF OUR VOICE IS NOT HEARD BY THE GREAT GLOBE OF MONEY WORLD. FREE TIBET, SAVE DAFUR & CHINA FROM COMMUNIST LIARS.!!!
I fully agree with Michelle. In free world we dont go out to kill, imprison, torture people for speaking their mind. Democracy is not perfect infact no system is perfect coz man is not perfect but we improve on learning from our imperfections we dont hide it and we dont force others into accepting that we are perfect. This is what our Chinese brothers should know. Michelle is right in saying Tibetans and Hans or for that matter any nationality can live side by side in harmony and its not an utopian thought, its a Buddhist way of life and this is what Dalai Lama has always been advocating. He recently praised President Hu Jintao for his Harmonious Society agenda and added that it should come from heart not by guns, is it too much for asking? With mutual suspicions can people of different culture live harmoniously NO it can happen only with mutual respect, Tibetans are only demanding respect for their culture and it doesnt mean central govt funds for monasteries or some gold statues but mean respect for their tradition and letting them practice what they beileve in without leaders abusing their revered spiritual leaders, without communist cadre telling them which scriptures to read, without party leaders deciding on reincarnation and without Jiang Qingli telling Tibetans that Central Party in Beijing is their Buddha. To all those Han brothers who say they are athiests, its fine with what you dont belive in and no one has the right to criticise you but cant you be respectfull of other peoples beleif as well. By the way there are more Han Chinese than Tibetans languishing in Labour camps and prisons in China for demanding freedom of expression, compensation for land aquisition, better working conditions in mines,concern for environment or simply writing poetry. And it was Chinese students in 1989 who were slaughtered in thousands for raising the voice LIBERTY and were branded "counter revolutionaries" were they all traitors and certainly they were not instigated by the Dalai Lama. Tibetans are willing to live with Chinese in a "harmonious society" and not in an "enforced society". Glitter of Shanghai and the malls in Lhasa wont mater to Tibetans if they are not allowed to light a butter lamp for the gods they believe in and Gods are in heaven and not in
when Jian Qingli stated "the Central Party in Beijing is Buddha for Tibetans" he unwittingly spoke the truth for all Chinese as well. Coz this is what CCP stands for and will go to any length to enforce even if it meant butchering people. And i would also like to add that Hitler's Germany had Goebles, China under CCP has Xinhua. So dear Han brothers if you think CCP is GOD and Xinhua the ultimate TRUTH then only TIME will make you face with reality, and its not a doomsday saying or foolish dream of a wortless BUDDHIST but a scientific fact -what goes up comes down.
I fully agree with Michelle. In free world we dont go out to kill, imprison, torture people for speaking their mind. Democracy is not perfect infact no system is perfect coz man is not perfect but we improve on learning from our imperfections we dont hide it and we dont force others into accepting that we are perfect. This is what our Chinese brothers should know. Michelle is right in saying Tibetans and Hans or for that matter any nationality can live side by side in harmony and its not an utopian thought, its a Buddhist way of life and this is what Dalai Lama has always been advocating. He recently praised President Hu Jintao for his Harmonious Society agenda and added that it should come from heart not by guns, is it too much for asking? With mutual suspicions can people of different culture live harmoniously NO it can happen only with mutual respect, Tibetans are only demanding respect for their culture and it doesnt mean central govt funds for monasteries or some gold statues but mean respect for their tradition and letting them practice what they beileve in without leaders abusing their revered spiritual leaders, without communist cadre telling them which scriptures to read, without party leaders deciding on reincarnation and without Jiang Qingli telling Tibetans that Central Party in Beijing is their Buddha. To all those Han brothers who say they are athiests, its fine with what you dont belive in and no one has the right to criticise you but cant you be respectfull of other peoples beleif as well. Tibetans are wiling to live in a "Harmoniuos Society" but not in an ENFORCED SOCIETY. And to all Han brothers who are so distrustful of Tibetans and Dalai Lama, which ofcourse is not their fault coz CCP doesnt gives RIGHT OF CHOICE, there are more Han Chinese in prisons and Labor Camps in China than Tibetans for demanding freedom of expression, better compensation for land aquisition, better working conditions in mines, or simply writing poetry or a letter the President. And those in thousand who were crushed under the wheels of tanks and slaughtered with bulets in 1989 for rasing the word LIBERT were also not Tibetans and certainly not instigated by the Dalai Lama or Dalai Clique. They were branded "counter revolutionaries" were they ? To all who believe that they have access to free information just cick on the net and see what you read on Tianenmen Square massacare. You will get your answers. Humanity doesnt distinguish between Tibetans and Hans blood is red for all humans only those who shed it for their glory give it different colour. Do you know one of the 5 victim of arson in Lhasa garment shop was Tibetan girl but Xinhua pays tribute to 4 Han girl, we Tibetans and all true Buddhists pray for all and this is what Dalai Lama stands for. The number of Chinese across the world including China who revere Dalai Lama is far more than the number of Tibetans. Monks are committing suicide in Tibet rather than killing Hans or their opressors coz they are taught not to inflict pain on others. So understand the true meaning of FREEDOM and open myopic eyes which reads only what is brought before the eyes. In Hitlers Germany people belived that Jews were bad and theres no holocaust and the reality was before them when it ended, the TRUTH has to be SOUGHT not just read.
How sad for the world that we are still plagued by the negative, afflictive emotions, but that is what Buddha taught...lifeis suffering. The chinese suffer in their anger, lies, distortion, unfair categorizations of HHDL role (or more accurately, lack of role) and they keep trying to rewrite history as well as currnt affairs with blatant prpoganda. If we love there is room for all. The Tibetans and the HAN Chinese could live side by side if their was mutual respect, human rights, and an overhaul of the current and very outdated Maoist approaches which wont work by the way in Nepal...dirt poor as they are and happy for ANY change even if the choose out of desperation, the Moaist- bad seed. WE WILL NOT LET THE TIBETAN STRUGLE FOR PEACEFUL DETERMINATIN OF THEIR FUTURES AND FATE be in vain. We will not bend to the crual, untrue & unfair intimidation from the Chinese agents of hate, fear, and vilence. NOT THIS TIME Remember...the USA is not perfect by a long shot BUT, we are FREE to speak oour mids, write our President, US REPS and tell them when they are making complete idiots of themselves at our expense. We ARE talking and making the amends we must do undue many of our own negative and karmic historical mistakes. It takes restraint, a willingness to be honest and fairplay, patience and wisdom....all part of being a Buddhist as well...so lets encourage the hard liners to see that their future is wrapped up in compromise, dialogue and playing nice in the sandbox with thier own repressed Chinese countrymen and women, the Tibetans, and behaving properly around the world as responsible global citiznes. OR they might just end up like Cuba today (catchingup furiously--today they just got cellphones!) fifty years from now themselves!
To all Han brothers who have commented above, with due respect to the views expressed i have just one simple question. Could anyone here have dared to discuss in open what we all are discussing and said the same words anywhere in China whether Beijing or any other place or for that matter Lhasa in a cafe or a disco or resaturant or while riding train or bus? If the answer is no then please dont stay in a state of permanent denial.
hey hjt, y u insist on saying HH Dalai Lama as separatist. Del has written it very clearly in his reply to you that HH Dalai Lama doesn't seek separation. you have written you get all the information from outside, then you should have known better about HH Dalai Lama stand. And if you still want to call him separatist well then you are just a mouth piece to your CCP who slaughtered those innocent freedom loving chinese students...
For all those that like to mention the number of people killed by the Tibetan rioters. I'd just like to point out that the Chinese Communist Government is the real criminal. The scale of the violence and repression that they've inflicted in Tibet (for the past 50 years) is the real crime.
What many pro-China, anti-Tibetan posters are forgetting is that the riot on 3/14 in Lhasa was preceded by 4 days of peaceful protests and followed by nearly 2 weeks of peaceful protests in all regions of Tibet. China's reaction to these protests has been a violent & harsh crackdown on all signs of dissent. These protests in over 50 areas of Tibet by monks, nuns, lay persons, nomads, students & all sorts of Tibetans show that Tibetans are unhappy w/ Chinese rule, they want a free Tibet & they want the return of the Dalai Lama. China has failed to win the hearts & minds of the Tibetan people. China should immediately allow unrestricted access to Tibet by journalists, diplomats & human rights organizations. That is the best way to get at the truth. When a govt only presents one side & censors other views, the govt's message should be immediately be suspect. That is why China has never been able to convince the world of their position on Tibet & the Dalai Lama. Many Chinese intellectuals & students support Tibetan human rights & the Dalai Lama & criticize the Party for its failed policies in Tibet & demand Tibetans be allowed full religious & political freedom.
oh..I just forgot to mention this, Charlie Rose, I always watch your show and know you to be quite a stand up guy and an intellectual in your own right. I guess I am trying to say I am your fan. Hey, sorry about your black eye. Hopefully, it is not the Chinese Ambassador. Ha ha I kid, I kid.
To those who keep repeating that the tibetans rioters have killed 12 Han Chinese, I just want them to know that it is the Chinese Govt. who has orchestrated this whole charade from the get on. They had police officers dressed up as monks and laypeople, as has been confirmed by British Intelligence recently, and then they started burning and looting the selected areas that were predetermined. There is also the picture they circulated to the western media of a tibetan man with a huge sword during the riot, wanted number 52, who was recognized by witnesses as being a local chinese police officer, which, subsequently led the PRC to issue another picture of the same scene with the person cropped out. Now, you tell me who started this riot? Can you really believe the PRC to offer correct assessment of the riot? I doubt any figure they give out as long as there is no independent inquiry by journalists. Like Shakapa said before me, there can be no meaningful dialogue possible with the present communist regime. They are incapable of keeping promises - even the ones that they initially forced on others.
THE ISSUE OF AUTONOMY FOR TIBET By Tsoltim N. Shakabpa I support His Holiness the Dalai Lama's call for genuine autonomy for Tibet. But I support it only if it is within the realm of a truly democratic China, not under the sovereignty of a communist China. Why? Because China, under communism, has already flagrantly reneged on an autonomous agreement signed in 1951, which they themselves dictated - clearly proving that to communists an agreement is meant to be broken, not to be kept. An agreement is like a "paper tiger" to communists. They feel they can easily tear it up when and if it doesn't suit them and use it in a predatory manner when it does. Further, communists believe that religion is poison, as Mao himself told the Dalai Lama, while Buddhism is a sacred religion to Tibetans. Also, since communists believe that religion is poison, they logically believe that the religious head of an institution is "lethal" poison, which the Tibetans can never accept because to Tibetans the Dalai Lama is not only the supreme head of their religious institution but also the reincarnation and emanation of the God of Compassion. Moreover, communism is fraught with dictatorship and totalitarianism while Tibetans fervently believe in democracy. Finally, I believe that with a genuine autonomous status within the realm of a truly democratic China, Tibet has a good chance of regaining her independence rather than under the tyrannical sovereignty of a communist China.
wow, what a loaded biased introduction; "Chinese' crackdown that lead to the deaths of 16 people" ?? WTF? It was the rioters that attacking/killing civilians and police forces that tried to restore order in Lhasa.It was the rioters that lead/produced these deaths, not the police force.
Some of the Chinese brothers here have very strong feeling for their homeland. I suggest they should personally get in touch with any tibetan organization in their area and request for a discussion on Tibet and China. If we as ordinary people can convince each other perhaps the leaders might be able to do so too. If any one of you are in california i am glad to organise such a discussion.
To Fairplay. So, you are a semi-buddhist? Just for your knowledge, you do not become a Buddhist, semi or otherwise, by reading the canons of Buddhism, as you put it. You become a Buddhist when you take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha, among other things. And once you start calling yourself a buddhist, semi (I do not know what that means..??) buddhist or otherwise, you do not discredit any buddhist teachers in anyway. Having said that, I fully agree with you that any form of life is precious, be that a Han Chinese life or the life of another human or a satient being (all life forms)and I truly regret if there were innocent Chinese killed in the recent uprising in Tibet. On the other hand, please do accept that deaths of Tibetans at the hand of communist china since the occupation had far far exceeded the death of chinese in the recent protest. You have no idea how much Tibetans suffer as a result of chinese occupation. In this recent protest alone, the chinese police killd way more Tibetans and if you need proof of the few that had been documented (this is for Del as well), please click on the link on this link http://www.tchrd.org/press/2008/pr20080318c.html These killings happened during and after the recent protest in Tibet. Be your own judge. I bet, very few Chinese know of these killings (but this has been routine for Tibetans, other minorities and even...maybe your own ordinary han chinese). If you are a half buddhist, you should be crying after seeing these pictures! You mentioned the 6th Dalai Lama! Although, I have the deepest veneration and respect to him, he is not one of the Dalai Lamas Tibetans consider great (we know the Dalai Lamas more than anyone else). He was different other Dalai Lamas, a great poet, a Dalai Lama who engaged in worldly pleasures (this may appeal to the chinese who brought much materialisic ills into Tibet). Sadly, he passed away young and there is a theory about chinese hands for his passing away. Please think twice before you call yourself a semi-buddhist. You do not sound and act like one. Thank you!
To Fairplay. So, you are a semi-buddhist? Just for your knowledge, you do not become a Buddhist, semi or otherwise, by reading the canons of Buddhism, as you put it. You become a Buddhist when you take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha, among other things. And once you start calling yourself a buddhist, semi (I do not know what that means..??) buddhist or otherwise, you do not discredit any buddhist teachers in anyway. Having said that, I fully agree with you that any form of life is precious, be that a Han Chinese life or the life of another human or a satient being (all life forms)and I truly regret if there were innocent Chinese killed in the recent uprising in Tibet. On the other hand, please do accept that deaths of Tibetans at the hand of communist china since the occupation had far far exceeded the death of chinese in the recent protest. You have no idea how much Tibetans suffer as a result of chinese occupation. In this recent protest alone, the chinese police killd way more Tibetans and if you need proof of the few that had been documented (this is for Del as well), please click on the link on this link http://www.tchrd.org/press/2008/pr20080318c.html These killings happened during and after the recent protest in Tibet. Be your own judge. I bet, very few Chinese know of these killings (but this has been routine for Tibetans, other minorities and even...maybe your own ordinary han chinese). If you are a half buddhist, you should be crying after seeing these pictures! You mentioned the 6th Dalai Lama! Although, I have the deepest veneration and respect to him, he is not one of the Dalai Lamas Tibetans consider great (we know the Dalai Lamas more than anyone else). He was different other Dalai Lamas, a great poet, a Dalai Lama who engaged in worldly pleasures (this may appeal to the chinese who brought much materialisic ills into Tibet). Sadly, he passed away young and there is a theory about chinese hands for his passing away. Please think twice before you call yourself a semi-buddhist. You do not sound and act like one. Thank you!
To Fairplay. So, you are a semi-buddhist? Just for your knowledge, you do not become a Buddhist, semi or otherwise, by reading the canons of Buddhism, as you put it. You become a Buddhist when you take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha, among other things. And once you start calling yourself a buddhist, semi (I do not know what that means..??) buddhist or otherwise, you do not discredit any buddhist teachers in anyway. Having said that, I fully agree with you that any form of life is precious, be that a Han Chinese life or the life of another human or a satient being (all life forms)and I truly regret if there were innocent Chinese killed in the recent uprising in Tibet. On the other hand, please do accept that deaths of Tibetans at the hand of communist china since the occupation had far far exceeded the death of chinese in the recent protest. You have no idea how much Tibetans suffer as a result of chinese occupation. In this recent protest alone, the chinese police killd way more Tibetans and if you need proof of the few that had been documented (this is for Del as well), please click on the link on this link http://www.tchrd.org/press/2008/pr20080318c.html These killings happened during and after the recent protest in Tibet. Be your own judge. I bet, very few Chinese know of these killings (but this has been routine for Tibetans, other minorities and even...maybe your own ordinary han chinese). If you are a half buddhist, you should be crying after seeing these pictures! You mentioned the 6th Dalai Lama! Although, I have the deepest veneration and respect to him, he is not one of the Dalai Lamas Tibetans consider great (we know the Dalai Lamas more than anyone else). He was different other Dalai Lamas, a great poet, a Dalai Lama who engaged in worldly pleasures (this may appeal to the chinese who brought much materialisic ills into Tibet). Sadly, he passed away young and there is a theory about chinese hands for his passing away. Please think twice before you call yourself a semi-buddhist. You do not sound and act like one. Thank you!
I think the people of China and the polititians should put themselves in the shoes of Tibetan people and ask themself one question..what is wrong in giving people Freedom and right of religion? What is wrong with falon gong practitioner and why do they get out of torturing those who standn up to their basic human right? Is this fair? Is this Human? Is this an act of someone with genuine intellect? Just grow up and for once do the right thing before we all leave this world since nothing in this world is permanent.What is permanent is what you are deep inside.peace and love...welcome to 21st century.
Everyone is just going to keep talking and discussing everything.Alot of people are going to get hurt,and alot more will suffer.Not just in Tibet and China,but everywhere.People are good,truth is alive,life is love.No one can walk out their front door and find the latter to be reality,there is no reason to go on.
To del, I am a Han Chinese, an anti-communist and a semi-buddhist. Wait a minute. Where do you get the funny idea that a Han Chinese person's life worth nothing in Lhasa? Surely the western media.<BR><BR>And for your information, I have read lots of Buddhist Canon Series including the Diamond Sutra and Sutra of the 6th Patriarch. You have given too much credit to the 14th Dalai Lama, who has mostly repeated what Gautama Buddha and other Buddhists said. Maybe the 14th Dalai is your god because he propagated some Buddhism thoughts to you, but I won't give too much credit to him as I learnt nothing from the 14th. Perhaps the most famous Dalai is the 6th. Guess you know nothing about him.
To Shaft the hypocrite, Mind your own business before you "feel" for other people. Technically speaking, you know nothing about Fareast situations. Remember Geronimo and Apaches? Would they be granted any privilege above the whites? In a democratic and conscience nation this is impossible. <BR><BR> In China, the communists are playing a very unfair game. Whenever a Han Chinese has a fight with ethnic minorities, such as Ugurs, Huis, Tibetans, and so on, the Han Chinese person is the one to be punished. The ethnic minorities have lots of privileges, such as immunity to misdemeanors and 1-child birth policy. In a democratic nation this is impossible. Personally I think the hypocrite's "law enforcement" against native Americans is perhaps the way to deal with rebellious ethnic minorities IF CHINA IS EVER A DEMOCRATIC NATION (Everybody is born equal, isn't it???). Ironically, the communists seek to make peace with the belligerent ethnic minorities because the communists don't want trouble and want to save their own faces. They treat ethnic minorities in a way much better than the Uncle Sam. If you don't believe what I said, just ask Han Chinese students in the United States. Before you open your mouth, better do some investigation at first.
Del. Doing one thing right doesn't mean doing all the things right. You know why Chinese people are so angry with the Western medias. Because the Western medias often take a biased position on all Chinese related issues. You are telling that China government is killing Tibetans. Do you have evidence? What I see is that Tibetan rioters kill innocent Han Chinese and Hui Chinese and ruin the city. If you think the Western medias are fair, find it out by yourself. They are acting like terrorists. Dalai Lama's greed is not obvious just from what he is talking. "I am asking Beijing to allow Tibet to be an autonomous area governed locally by Tibetans so that we can preserve our culture and language, but still remain under control from Beijing like Guangxi and the Zhuang minority" But do you know Tibet he is refering to is much greater than the current Tibetan area which inlcudes the other areas Tibetan never govered before? Also, his followers had made the statement of autonomy is the first step to independence. In my opinion, China will not recover to a great country if Tibet and Taiwan is seperated because they belong to China since hundreds of years ago. Just because I have a position and opinion simliar to China government and most Chinese people, I am considered as being brainwashed by you. Can I consider you are brainwashed just because you are taking a postion and opinion based only on what you hear from Dalai Lama and the Western medias? Like you said, we need to do something good. But what the Tibetan rioters are doing is not doing anything good to anybody.
I don't understand how anyone could describe the Dalai Lama as greedy. Also not sure why you think forcibly putting Taiwan under the boot of the CCP dictatorship restores china to greatness. It saddens me to know that Chinese people are intent on killing Tibetans and Taiwan peole to satisfy some sense of nationalism and nostalga for an empire created by the Manchu's during the Qing dynasty. I've been to China many times and understand enough to be sad about the state of the world. I've seen the good and bad there. Your concept that china is an inscrutable asian riddle indeciperable by westerners is seriously out of date. Your negative characterizations of the Dalai Lama are at odds with the relatity I have seen with my own eyes when I met the man. It is odd that all the patriotic mainland chinese are convinced of the badness of the Dalai Lama, but no else in the world is aware of these flaws. Why you attribute acts to him that he has not done. I heard him say "Tibet will stay part of China" "I am asking Beijing to allow Tibet to be an autonomous area governed locally by Tibetans so that we can preserve our culture and language, but still remain under control from Beijing like Guangxi and the Zhuang minority" I was in the room when he said it. They handed out copies of the statement to that affect. For some reason Chinese insist on denying this reality. That is what is so sad about your position. Not sure why Chinese overseas and on the mainland deny this and insist on lying about it. It sounds a lot like you have memorized the official CCP position. This biased western media just got ride of Eliot Spitzer for soliciting prostitution. If there was some secret conspiracy about the Dalai Lama our media would be more than happy to report it. The bias we westerners have is that we like him because he is genuinely a good person. Why is it only patriotic ethnic Han chinese people are aware of this conspiracy and greed of the Dalai Lama? Why would western media deny or cover up this fact when they enjoy tearing everyone else down? You should read the Art of Happiness before you comment further on supposed character flaws of a man you really do not know anything about. The thing is our information about the Dalai Lama comes from many independent sources. You statements are the product of your central government and contain only the information they want you to have. The rest of us are sad because we know the quarantine of Tibet and the presence of the military means Tibets are being shot, rounded up for torture etc. It is not necessary. The only result will be tibetans will be killed until they become docile zoo animals to be trotted out for the tourists so a Han chinese communist can make a dollar off a western tourist. Why do you think that is necessary or something to be proud of? There is a peaceful resolution to this that would not require death of anyone. It is sad that your ignorance and misguided sense of patriotism will not allow something good to occur.
Hi. Del. First of all, I donâ??t live in China and am able to receive all the information from all over the world. OK. I agree that there are a lot of problems in China right now due to the absolute power of CCP. Personally, I hate the corruption, news control, and environment scarified for economic growth very much. We must have a revolution to establish a high effective and efficient government with minimum corruption and enough knowledge and resources to solve the problems. But I don't see why the separation is the solution. They are just not relevant. We, as Chinese, would like to have all provinces united including Tibet and Taiwan to recover a great country. I agree that China government should talk with Dalai and any separatists. But don't you know Dalai is the obstacle of the conversion not China government because he is greedy and asking something unrealistic such as the Greater Tibet and always changing his mind over time and losing control of his followers who makes his words incredible? What I can see is that Dalai is a politician rather than a Buddhist. I enjoy a lot of philosophy wisdom from Buddhism. But Dalai is not good as he looks like in terms of philosophy and integrity. Also I think that you should dig harder to get more understanding of Chinese history and culture such as Kongzi. Kongzi brings us ZhongYongZhiDao. But donâ??t you know Kongzi is in favor of the government and controller? So I donâ??t think ZhongYongZhiDao is the way to go for China. Regarding Olympic game, I think that it is a good opportunity for all the western people to understand more about China not only from biased Western newspapers and medias and for China government to review its policies and operations and problems. But nobody in China will agree the game should be used by the separatists and political attackers and scarify Tibet or Taiwan to host the game. Donâ??t you think independence and separatism is against Olympic spirits of one world, one dream?
hjt, All powerful nations have to find a way to allow it's people to express disagreement with the government's policy or the nation will never grow. If a lid is held to tightly over a boiling pot the pot will boil over and the cook will be burned. The lid has been held too tight over the Tibetan people and now the situation has boiled over from their frustration. The solution is not to put another tight lid over the pot and just blindly repeat the process. Gongchandang is striving to maintain control over all the information you receive in China. They are not doing this to promote communism anymore or promote the Cult of Chairman Mao anymore. They are doing this just to control for the sake of retaining power. It is also so the Party and their relatives and those they have GUANXI with can control the assets and retain the wealth among themselves as china industrializes and the economy develops. I am aware that most chinese people are all concerned about making money now and are driven by the market economy and not communism. We in the west have been in a similar place before ourselves, you are experiencing something we call in america the Gilded Age. What we are concerned about is that the Communist Party seems driven to lead China from a communist dictatorship to some form of fascist dictatorship. They have no qualms about shooting, torturing or throwing into prison any Hanzu nongmin who question or dares to protest the inequities of China's rapid development. Make no mistake Chinese villagers themselves have and are now protesting against the inequalities of China's economic development, the government does not hesitate to put them down with excessive violence. That is why many are concerned the treatment of Tibetans will be even harsher than the Chinese Communist Party treats it's own ethnic group. Many American's like myself are concerned because we are interested in the Chinese people and do not want them to become like Russia, with a government that seems more a dictatorship dominated by wealthy gangsters and a people without hope or happiness or wisdom. A culture only about money and power. That path only leads back to a feudalistic slave society, with the wealthy at the top, and everyone else a slave to the market economy. We hope that the men in Beijing are truly wise,confucian gentleman and will recall the best aspects of past thinkers like Kong Zi, and that there might be some wisemen in Beijing who will lead China in a better path. The world needs the wisdom of china's ancient culture and the wisdom of men like the Dalai Lama so that the world can collectively solve problems like global warming, finding enough energy to sustain our modern societies, solve pollution problem's etc. We hope Hu Jintao will show restraint with the troops and police. We hope he will meet with the Da Lai Lama. There is a tremendous opportunity here for Hu to show wisdom and compassion. The slogan for the Beijing Olympics is One World One Dream. Does this One Dream include compassion and understanding for Tibetans, the people of Taiwan, North Korea or poor people elsewhere in world? Or is it an empty slogan to sell merchandise to westerners so the Han people can become wealthy? I would like to believe Tong Yi Ge Shi Jie, Tong Yi Ge Meng Xiang å??ä¸?个ä¸?ç?? å??ä¸?个梦æ?³ is truly an ideal of the chinese people that has meaning beyond just accumlating money and power and material things. I hope they have the wisdom to understand the opportunity they have today to make Tibetans part of this one dream we all share. Hu Jintao would gain much by allowing the Dalai Lama to share his wisdom with his people in Tibet, with China and the rest of the world. One small gesture of compassion from a great leader of a great Nation like China could transform the Beijing Olympics into a positive symbol for mankind's hopes for the world in the 21st century.
The Tibet issue is one of the sad issues of our times. As China continue to expand the world is becoming more intolerant with Chinese abusive power over the Tibetans. Personally, I had very little knowledge about Tibet untill I had the chance to listen to your program and some other program in the same subject. I really feel for the Tibetans. But let's not also forget pther smaller nations and countries held by bigger nations against their will. Russia holds a couple of those smaller nations that want to split. While I aknowledge that the Tibetans case is really sad, but it is in the interest of the Tibetans they stay with China under certain autonomy. The economic powers of our world is changing, Chinese civilians are busy earning dough that they are not looking to squeeze Tibetans. Tibetans could benefit from Chinese growth rather than split and have one of the largest country breath on thier neck at all times. It is just an opinion, not intended to debate those with extensive knowledge. My knowledge on China is very limitted and general.
Mr. Rose, I do not know what happened to your eyes but they do not look like they come from pot-holes in Manhattan roads. Credit to Mayor Michael Bloomberg he has made so much improvements to better NYC than any mayor before him. His predecessor, Mayor Giuliani was credited for cleaning the city at the expense of the poor, homelesses and "bad elements." Mayor Bloomberg has done better keeping with what he inherited. In fact, some say Mayor Bloomberg has revived the dampened spirit of New York, not to mention all the repairing of the roads. Well, the black eye may seem to have come from some New Yorker losing his charm. I hope I am not offending ya. :)
What was the population of Han Chinese settled there before the 1940's? From this sentence, I know you are brainwashed. There was literally none Han Chinese permanently live in Tibet before 1951. And now there are 90+% ethnic Tibetan Chinese and 10-% non-Tibetan Chinese (including Han and others such as Hui). By the way, Hui is also under attack this time. Those rioters hate Hui much more than Han, and many Hui shops were burned, your CNN won't tell you this, brainwashed? huh. China is not a country of Han Chinese (as you are one of, or probably not). China consists of 56 ethnics and Han is just one of them. In her history, China as a country was once governed by different ethnics. When talking about ethnic issues, encouraging different ethnics live together peacefully is the only way. I would say that independence of Basque or Kurd or Ireland or anywhere else might be more practical (don't quote me on this and surely I don't encourage this), look at the map, is independence a choice?
Agree with Keith on his most important point: negotiation will be the only solution. I don't see any chance of negotiation right now, probably after Olympics. It also depends on what will happen from now on to Olympics. Boycotting Olympics won't do anyone any good and will surely ignite more anger among Chinese people and further complicate the issue (if not completely close the door of negotiation). Chinese government gets overwhelming support (or pressure) from Chinese people on Tibet issue. Now the next question is how to negotiate? I don't think raising impractical conditions (like big Tibet) is a sincere way to negotiate. Unfortunately Dalai is the Westerner's sweat-heart. No one will ask him to back off even a little bit. Personally I think Dalai might pursue Mid-Way (either willingly or limited by current situation), but he cannot control the hardliner within those Tibetan-in-exile. He is also under huge pressure. Besides, he changes his position constantly. He said different things to different audience at different scenarios. Only thing never change is to maintain a good image before western media. One good example is what happened recently. He first said he won't ask his supporters to stop. Then the situation got worse and started to damage the so-called "unarmed peaceful" image, he then asked his supporters to stop violence, changed his tone with 24 hours (or a little bit more than 24 hours). Finally what is the way to solve ethnic issues (not just in China but across the world?) Should we encourage Kurd to declare independence and form a Kurdish country? Turkey won't allow that, United States of America won't allow that (because Iraq issue). Should we encourage Basque area to separate from Spain. Many areas across the world have ethnic issues and independence might not be a good solution. What is best choice for Tibet? Independence? I strongly doubt it. By the way, I loves Tin Tin too. There is one right on my desk. But frankly the English version pissed me off. The Chinese version I read back in China is/are way much much much much better. The English translation is ugly.
The mardi gras of western media on Tibet is now backfired. This time I have to say that the presumed "truthful" western propaganda loses miserably to the communists' propaganda by taking grant of the facts too early. In particular, Nick Macfie, the Reuters reporter in Beijing, becomes a shame of the reporting business as his reports (both written and edited) were teemed with rumors. In facts, the communist armed police (similar to National Guard in USA) didn't use any firearm in Tibet this time. And the communist police in the Sichuan province fired bullets to mobs after one police was killed. Is this Holocaust? Did Jews kill Nazi police at first before they were slaughtered? What happened in the Kent State University in 1960s? I remembered that the national guards who shot 5 students dead were also not punished because of the so-called "law-enforcement" quibbles.<BR> <BR> <BR> CCTV's documentary on the Lhasa riot:<BR> <BR> Part 1:<BR> <BR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z_prFMROC8<BR> <BR> Part 2:<BR> <BR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiVunJBIGoM&feature=related<BR> <BR>
Hi, Keith, You are an idealist. You even use a novel (Tin Tin) to describe a utopia state in this world. That is very mature, thank you very much. Sorry I am a Han Chinese who hates communists. But I also disagree with western media and your viewpoint. Holocaust? Pardon me? How many ethnic Han Chinese were killed in Tibet? And how many ethnic Tibetan people were killed in Tibetï¼? What kind of Holocaust you are talking about? You simply pull out a bad buzz word from western media and start to roar, but I find that your foundation is shaky. Yes, the communists are mostly inflicting economic changes in Tibet. This is bad for Dalai Lama and some spiritual people like you. But the world is changing. It is not atheists' fault. Don't you listen to Bob Dylan's song "The Times They are Changin'"??? I am an atheist. Choosing one's own belief is part of individual freedom. I am happy to see that the population of de facto atheists is becoming bigger and bigger in western countries, for example, the United States. Okay, many people still go to churches in USA, but they are not religious any more. They are de facto atheists. Discriminations against atheists and presumed moral advantage over atheist are perhaps the most stupid pose assumed by western mediaï¼? which are typically more conservative than the proletarians. So if anybody want to discriminate against us atheists, he/she can go to hell. If things keep going on like this, then the situation will be just like what Hungtinton (a Harvard professor) described in his book about conflict of ideologies. There are more conflicts on the road and there is no solution at all. This is NOT atheists' fault. Finally, I do agree to your suggestion that Dalai and Hu should meet in Lhasa and Beijing to discuss the situation. But I think Dalai won't be able to see that day coming. Be practical and stop looking at eastern people from a presumed above position. It is so disgusting and it will only result in more conflicts.
Come on. Del. It seems that you need to study more to understand Chinese people and culture. The western people always connect China with communism. Because you are afraid of communism, you are against everything in China. I believe that nowadays most people in China do not care who is the leader of the country as long as the party can take us to the wealthy, prosper, and powerful society. Most Chinese people I know indeed are in favor of Western countries and culture. However, when they come to the US, they realize that the US is not that perfect. Do you have real freedom? Is your leader selected taking the country to the right direction? Of course, China is not perfect either. But the point is if China needs to have any change to improve, this decision needs to and will be made by Chinese people not anyone else. Just because Chinese students are supporting the government, they are blamed to support Chinese communist Party and brainwashed. What a logic? If every well-educated and intelligent Chinese is like you said, it only means you are at the opposite side of the truth. Let me make a clear. All the Chinese are supporting China government whatever it is led by CCP or others. There is no toleration on separation and terrorism. Attacking China will only make Chinese people hate and get away from the Western countries.
I have been studying chinese language for six years. I also have read many books on chinese history and also some of the dalai lama's books. I would rank the DaLai Lama as being a philosopher on the same level as Kong Zi (Confucius) Lao Zi, Epictetus, etc. He has a lot to say that is very consistent with the current Chinese Communist Party's stated goal to foster "Social Harmony" I would say his philosophy inspires social harmony in positive ways even more so than the Chinese Communist Party. I wonder if that is a source of some of the anger. The Chinese Communists are jealous that the Da Lai Lama would be more popular than Mao Ze Dong Thought, even in China, if the chinese people were to be allowed to freely read his books? I made a mistake of asking two chinese graduate students in their 20's here in the US what they thought of the situation in Tibet. Apparently I have been brainwashed by the western media and the Da Lai Lama. It was very distressing to here educated intelligent people repeat the official Chinese Communist sanctioned position on Tibet and then be laughed at about how I was brainwashed. Curiously one of the Chinese graduate students is studying communications and and is researching how government's control information on the internet, but then I obviously have been biased by the western media and that "hooligan Dalai Lama clique". Another odd thing is these chinese graduate students all try hard to stay in the US as long as they can or marry someone so they don't have to return to the peaceful social harmony of the Communist Party in their controlled internet experience on the Mainland. Charlie your show is the most unbiased thoughtful show being broadcast any where in the world. The situation in Tibet is most stressing, what is even more stressing is the Chinese government is unwilling to talk it about it even on your program. It appears they have already dug in their heels. You should invide the DaLai Lama and Hu Jintao to meet you in Lhasa and Beijing for a special discussion about Social Harmony in modern society.
Wow, how fast do the Communist sympathizers organized! I too am a Han Chinese, Cantonese more specifically. Studied and lived in Hong Kong for a better part of my childhood and adolescence, and now living in New York City. Tibet is a murky issue, pretty much like Israel, when you have mobs of people from all sides claiming they too have a manifest destiny to call it their land. History books are always published by the powerful and wealthy. Is Tibet part of China? What was the population of Han Chinese settled there before the 1940's? Like California, how many western immigrants were there before the 1800's? Was there any violence during the past weeks in Tibet? Absolutely. But what was the genesis of it? What exactly bubbled up? What prompted all those violence in Ireland or India a long time ago? Right now, China is using the same play book as Britain did a while back, if you can't beat them into submission, may be you can breed them into the big family. And no, it does not make a right when there is two wrongs, that is for those viewers that started listing the historical incidents on other occupations and colonizing acts. You can't teach old dogs new tricks. The current Chinese government is just doing the same thing that all her predecessors have been doing for millennium - rule with an iron fist over her people. Chinese people are used to being subjugated themselves to authorities and emperors. We were brought up with stories of mighty warriors and emperors that represent gods from heaven. Those that rule upon us must be put in the position by some celestial directive. It was pretty much how we were all used to blindly repeat exactly what our teacher dished out in the classroom. No questions asked. There will never be any dissensions or debates. There is a difference between ruling and governing. A long time from now when China becomes a true democratic country, and when the government is elected by her people, may be we will have a government there, not a ruling party. Was Charlie's show on Tibet biased? No doubt. But then, should we listen to a counter point from a Nazi member when we talked about the Holocaust? This show is not always about debating. It is not John McLaughlin. For those that want to watch a warm and fuzzy report on Tibet, they can tune to their CCTV. It is always good news. 24x7, with a full English channel too. And for the one viewer who had a bad experience with a monk, it was a pretty narrow view about Buddhism based on that one incident. I went to a Catholic school during my childhood in HK. Yes, Chinese Catholic school, you get double dose of the mighty teacher beating. Do I view all Catholic priests, or even Catholicism as a whole, with disguise? To do that is to blanket all Chinese as dirty when I see them spitting or clearing their nose on the sidewalk when I walk by Chinatown here. Communication and negotiation are the best ways to dissolve any conflicts. I believe the Dalai Lama has reached out multiple times to the Chinese government. Sure, what he asked for might be impossible, but I can see that for both sides, that is why people negotiate. I have been to both Ireland and India. May be one day I will be going to Tibet too. I hope when I get there it will still feel like the spiritual wonderland like I first read it in Tin Tin when I was a kid. Last thing we need is another economic "experiment" like Shenzhen. Imagine the reason you go to Jerusalem is to make pilgrimage for cheap jeans, KFC and pirated DVDs. So, it is really up to China to play this out. They have in their hand a large spiritual gem stone. It could be cultivated as the most brilliant piece of art work or hammered into a common piece of jewelry for HSN.
One thing to add, is that I agree your guest selection could be much more neutral. Well, maybe you don't want your guests to start a fight. And I am jealous of your MB Air.
1. Well, European whites didn't live in Americas either before "discovery" of the "new world". 2. Dalai Lama has always failed to communicate with China. And he is still the head of "Tibetan government in exile". So he is connected, and possibly approved it (without saying it). 3. What Dalai Lama said does not matter, just like when Obama is claiming "Change" and "Yes we can". It is about actions. 4. Just like you cannot say "God damn America" because it is anti-America. Chinese see the split of any part of China as anti-China and will not tolerate that. 5. The solution to Tibet and many problems in China is not independence (and independence will not happen) but a more democratic China. Thank you.
Yes, "Han Chinese lack the knowledge of Tibetan". "The economic development is totally based on the destruction of the environment". Tibetans have a better knowledge of Tibet". Wait. Who just said the violence in Tibet is beyond his control? If the destruction is greater than the benefit, why does Dalai Lama wants Tibet to be part of China to share the economic boom? It's easier for a dog to bark than for a human to talk his ideology. The western politians like him as long as he barks against their opponents and the louder the better. A few more comments about my personal experience in Tibet: 1. Ordinary Tibetans are very nice and friendly to tourists. Also, the environment and ecology is very natural and beautiful. Personally, I don't see signs of "destruction". 2. Tibetan monks, i.e. lamas, are generally gready and surly. One of the monks once invited the me into a dark room for a spiritual talk, and then asked for $100 to light a candle in order to cleanse my spirit. How pious are they to Buddism! I immediately turned hime down. The other monk did the same thing to my girl friend and with a threatening tone. It's then not hard to understand why Dalai changed his claim of full independence to full autonomy. Who doens't want to make quick money from Han tourists under the name of Budda?
I am wondering why Professor Melvyn C. Goldstein, <strong> the Tibetan expert </strong> in the United States, was not invited to the discussion. <p> I read many books and journal papers on Tibet, China, and the United States, including those from Goldstein and Thurman. To me, Goldstein is a researcher with integrity and provides the most objective views about Tibet and China without personal prejudice against communists and atheists.
When the UK gives up Northern Ireland and possibly even Scotland, the Indians their Kashmir, the Taiwanese give back the island to its aborigines (and yes there are displaced aborigines in Taiwan), ditto for Australia, Italy its Lombardy province, the Spanish their Basque country, and when Nancy Pelosi willingly gives back all her family's prime real estate in California to either Mexico or Native Americans, then maybe they'll have a right to dictate what another country does within its national borders.
Make it clear: Tibetan rioters killed 16 innocent death, then Chinese government starts the crackdown! How many death during the crackdown is still unknown. As a media worker,the truth should always be the most important. Not matter the truth you like or not.
Very biased, though better than Foxnews. When an Asian Indian and two western whites talk about Tibet, you can bet on the result of discussion. Actually it is quite easy to call any Chinese scholar into the discussion. There are thousands of Chinese history professors from universities in Hong Kong and Western countries who can talk about a more balanced history of Tibet. Hints: Indians and Chinese do not get along well near the Tibet area. It is a joke to let Indians give a fair talk on Tibet. Indians also occupy the 6th Dalai Lama's birthplace and refuse to return it to Tibet (The current Dalai Lama is the 14th). Most westerners are ignorant about Fareast's history. Professor Robert Thurman even thinks President Hu could be another Nixon (a hardliner vs. China comparing to Hu vs. Tibet). This is a joke and it shows that Thurman knows nothing about Fareast politics.
very biased view. what a shame. people in western world need to get their heads out of sand.
Dear Charlie Rose, I am an ethnic Han Chinese. I personally don't agree with every Tibet policy of Chinese government (for example, I think the current policy is way too pro- ethnic Tibetan.) I just watched your program regarding Tibet on PBS. I watch PBS often and enjoy most of its programs. But I feel your program about Tibet is so biased, and frankly it is disgusting. You invited 4 pro-Tibet scholars as your guests, then said you also invited Chinese Ambassador but he would not attend, blah blah. Your four favored guests then used lies to smear the Government of China and ethnic Han Chinese people. (We can discuss history and international laws in detail if needed.) Do you think it is appropriate to invite the Ambassador of China to debate/discuss Tibet issue with pro-Tibet scholars? Probably I am too naive, but officials representing the people and the government of China have their limitations due to their specific positions. They cannot speak freely because their words represent government policy, which might be scrutinized word by word. How could they debate with pro-Tibet scholars freely and equally? You are asking someone with his hands bounded to fight with others. With normal IQ, I personally think you should invite scholars (pro-China or neutral) to debate with other scholars. It might be extremely difficult to find scholars with pro-China stance considering the fact that blaming China is the best way to guarantee fundings (for your four esteemed guests). It is unpopular if anyone says anything good about China, which is not what western people like to hear, he/she might lose funding. Unfortunately western audience are sometimes not interested in truth but a imaginary, rosy Tibet. Western media complained that Chinese government banned western journalists in Tibet. If western media are biased as that, I do see the government got a point. Biased journalists can do greater harm, foster more violence with their colored glasses. They will ignore 100 minutes of riots violence and capture 1 minute police self-defense activities. Your program, further discredit western media. By the way, can anyone attack NYPD without any consequences? There is no good terrorism or bad terrorism, there is only one kind of terrorism. What those Tibetan riots did (killing innocent people, burning shops, attacking police officers) are terrorism activities. I heard a news that 5 girls in their 20's (both Tibetan and Han) were burned to death in a shop. Do you know the last message one of those girls sent to her family? She said "don't worry about me." It seems that your guests have no time to care about those loses of lives because of their SELECTIVE sympathies. About Dalai Lama, is he really sincere? A big question mark. One of your guests said that Dalai Lama is always ready and willing and eager and hoping to talk with Chinese government, and Chinese government is always half-hearted and cheating and trying to play trick. If it is a ordinary audience who said that, it is understandable. But if it is a so-called expert on Tibet issues who said that, it is unforgivable. He/she loses the basic conscience as a researcher. Does he/she know the Big Tibet Dalai Lama is asking for? Why there is no voice from the other side? Because western public doesn't like it. It is pathetic.
I think that it is unfair to only blame China government on not solving the issue with Dalai Lama and his followers. First of all, Dalai Lama is asking something unrealistic. He wants to not only control the current Tibet province but also a lot of other areas where there were Tibetans living in the past, but which were never under the governance of any Tibet government. Secondly, his followers had made some statements what self governance will be a starting point where Tibet can switch to full independence later. Then how China government can trust Dalai Lama's statement of being a part of China? Thirdly, I have to admit that Tibet is not rich as other eastern provinces in China. A lot of Tibetan are eager to have better living conditions. What I can see is that the main reason why Tibet is left behind is the geographic limitation of Tibet and education and religion. Up to today, there are still 50,000 monks in Tibet who are not working at all. However, China government has been putting huge effort and money to help improving Tibet economy and education systems. When the society is civilized, it is possible to lose some traditional culture. But this does not only happen in China, but also a lot of other countries in the world and human history. The point is which one is more important. Lastly, what will make Tibet better if it becomes independent? After all, this is the key point. Somebody might say getting more Freedom. But the question is what type of freedom they are looking for. Will this type of freedom can be obtained after switching a government?
I agree with Richard's comment. I have friends from Tibet. According to their story, the US media did misleading people. Besides, I found a very famous video in Youtube(views: 1,314,582; comments: 79,605; favorited: 10,825 times in 3 or 4 days and the number is still increasing quickly). This video can not be found in the first page, most viewed, most discussed.....It is hided by Youtube. No matter what, we should hear the voice from another side. This is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo
Thank you Mr. Rose for the dialogue and multiple viewpoints about the situation in Tibet. I'm no expert on China or Tibet but I have had the pleasure of visiting that region several years ago. I'm also somewhat familiar with Mr. Schell's work and unfortunately I share his opinion. It's difficult to be optimistic about how the Chinese will let this play out. No matter what happens, the repercussions will be felt for years, if not decades, to come.
It is ridiculous to hear a so biased talk which only comes from one side. I feel that so many people take a position before they even do some research and fully understand the history and culture. Tibet became a part of China in Yuan Dynasty, about 800 years ago and was under the governance of Ming Dynasty and Qing Dynasty. Tibet claimed independence at the beginning of 20 century when Qing Dynasty was in a Chaos, but was never admitted by any country and China government. Tibet was recaptured in 1950s and again fully controlled by the current China government, P.R.China. Yes. Since then, the freedom of Lamas and rich landlords who had power and control over Tibet and the rest 95% salves was lost. Today these people are asking their freedom back. Are you really supporting this? Donâ??t be fooled by Dalai Lama who claims himself a peaceful lover. The monks from Tibet were never pure Buddhists. Anybody can accept a fact that another man wants to become your master because he is asking peacefully? Also there is no absolute freedom exists in the world. Otherwise the whole world will be again in a mess. Can you imagine what will happen if there is a such unrest in the US? In addition, take a look at the short history of the US to find out why there was a civil war and why so many civilians were killed. Donâ??t always use dual standards to judge the world.
xcl, While I admit I am not a Tibetan history expert, I tend to suspect that the monks there were able to practice their religion freely, as they have been living there longer then the Chinese from the north. Since China depends on censorship and repression to insure its power, I think it is clear that the Tibetan's have been repressed by the Chinese since the invasion 50 years ago. Thanks for providing the links. I have heard Michael Parenti speak on other subjects and he is knowledgable. I definitely don't want to be hypocritical and am open to hearing other points of view. A word of advice to you, though, since you have know idea who I am, it would be better to keep your comments relating to facts rather then in condescention towards me. I always question people's judgement when they have to resort to belittling others to get their point across. That is a tactic of tyrants.
Dear Charlie Rose. Thank you so much for the show on Tibet tonight. I was about to give up on you after 10 days of waiting for this to be mentioned on your show. But the wait was well worth what you put together. What a wise and centered choice to pick Orville Shell, Robert Thurman and clips by His Holiness the Dalai Lama! the guests other two guests, not as well known to me, were also terrific and throughly rounded out this discussion which as a result did not inflame, not subdue. Perfect! I've had the good luck to have covered the Dalai Lama for 15 years, and am taking part in a web site that you might be interested in checking out: www.myspace.com/prayerflagrevolution -- as it has updates daily from a cross section of the international press, releases from His Holiness's office sent hot off the press, and 'just plain folks' participation, and comments. Thank you again for you impeccable choices on t his coverage. (and for COVERING IT! as you'll see on that site, coverage is all we are trying to do with our "revolution" -- keep it in the media. all the best to you! Simone Ellis (journalist www.linktv.org/programs/hands and American Tibetan Buddhist practitioner of 30 years, aka Pema Denchen Lhamo)