Charlie Rose Science Series
Click here to watch previous episodes of the Charlie Rose Science Series
Keyword Tag Cloud
03/19/2008
Ali Fadhil, Sinan Antoon
Continued discussion about the war in Iraq
Keywords:
Continued discussion about the war in Iraq on the five year anniversary of the invasion with Iraqi journalist Ali Fadhil and Sinan Antoon of New York University.
DVD
Charlie Rose DVDs on Amazon.
Charlie Rose DVDs on Amazon.
Audio
Audio available through Audible.com.
Audio available through Audible.com.
Transcripts
Transcripts available through Voxant.
Transcripts available through Voxant.
Thank you to Sinan Antoon and Ali Fadhil, and to Charlie Rose for this discussion. How could it be always shocking to see what usually continues to pass for news and political understanding in the U.S.? Many have commented on the discussion, so here, I will just recommend more work by Sinan Antoon that I've taught in college classes. I'd suggest Soon Production's documentary, About Baghdad, as well as his novella, I'Jaam, and his writings for the Nation magazine, especially his article on the city of Baghdad, "Dead Poet's Society." Amy Goodman's Democracy Now! also has a few good programs featuring Iraqi writers.
Watching this makes me want to puke. How can someone as smart and informed as Charlie Rose come off as surprised to hear what these two fine gentleman are saying? I remember being part of a massive demonstration in NYC before the invasion. Desmond Tutu, among others, spoke about the sheer stupidity and maleficence of the obvious intent of the Bush administration. CIA analysts were testifying that they were being pressured to justify invasion BEFORE thye invasion! What was going to happen was no mystery to anyone with open eyes and an open mind. The anti-war movement throughout the planet Earth was aware of the lies that Bush & Co were foisting upon us. Only in America was the con job "successful". Even today, most Americans still "don't get it". Witness Rose's incredulity during the course of this brief interview with REAL experts on Iraq. Meanwhile, with each passing hour more suffering and destruction and death are visited on the Iraqi people, and the American military (and their families) as a result of the insanely incompetent and hideously corrupt policies of this criminal administration. We've actually managed to make Saddam Hussein look relatively benevolent. Shame on all of us Americans for letting this happen in our name.
In this particular segment, it seems to me that Charlie Rose doesn't seem to understand what his two guests are saying about the truths and realities of what was Iraq before the war, and what it has become today because of the occupation of that country for the last five years, which will not end any time soon. Mr. Rose, I think you have an excellent program overall, and it would be a good idea that you reinvite your two guests along the likes of Fouad Ajami and Frederick Kagan at the same table because in their mind, "the war is going well."
These guys, and other thoughtful Iraqis, should be a regular part of your numerous discussions about our military action in Iraq. Their point of view shouldn't be confined to an odd segment, any more than the viewpoints of Brookings types are. Nice job, Charlie, but you've still got a way to go to get to real balance and integrity in your discussions on Iraq.
i am grateful to you for airing the views of two plain-spoken Iraqis who can tell YOU and your viewership about our fatal blundering into Iraq. BUT Mr. Rose you have consistently avoided having any American antiwar voices on your show, only repentant war hawks who pretend they were not gung-ho for the war from the get go. i am still waiting for you to invite someone like Scott Ritter or Amy Goodman or ANYONE who told you so when you were unwilling to hear. (Sara, I am sad that an adult would write what you wrote. Why shouldn't these people "avail themselves of our freedoms"? Freedom is not a commodity, it is a state of being. You would consign all people trapped in a war zone to stay there forever? Would it be better if they just acted grateful and kept their mouths shut?)
How this could be the first time in the last 5 years that the American people have heard from the real Iraq is beyond me. Thank you Mr.Rose. How is it that journalists from all of the major networks can be so blind? These two commentators were as good as it gets. They put the entire war in its historical context and explained what needs to happen. Please get these guys back for more.
The conversation helped distinguish reality from dogma. The conversation was so sobering that Charlie look ruffled and shaken. Thank you.
An extremely informative and necessary perspective. Ali Fadhil and Sinan Antoon are doing a great service to the world.
yes yes! thank you for the killer show! more intelligent people like sinan antoon please!
Sinan's views are revealing.Americans are audacious.They believe it is bad manners to look a gift horse in the mouth. There is hope in the US media yet.
I'm from the Netherlands, your ally in Iraq and Afghanistan. Please please invite these guests back to your program, preferably after it is clear who the Democratic nominee will be. Please have an in-depth discussion with them about what Obama/Hillary's policy should be for the first year after taking office. That would be an enlightening show. You should have more guests like this on. I love your show, but I'm often disappointed that you get American foreign correspondents on to talk about foreign issues. Why not get foreigners on themselves? I admit that John Burns is absolutely fantastic, but many other people you have on from the New York Times are not very insightful in my (Dutch) mind. Fantastic show.
you can hear Mr Antoon on Voices of the Middle East and North Africa on KPFA on a psecial on 5 year anniversary of the invasion http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=25373
Please consider having this journalist and professor return soon for a longer period of time. We need to be reminded of the details of the effects of US policy historically and recently (& what that policy has been), in detail. These two men explain things clearly. Trillions of our dollars are being expended in Iraq. It is our responsibility as citizens to know what is going on with our money and in our name. Please bring them back and let the speak longer and with more detail. Please let them finish their sentences. I can't hear either speaker, when there are interruptions. Thank you.
We should leave the country of iraq at once. The arab people must learn to grow up and be themselves. Who cares if 500,000 iraqi were tortured and executed by saddam, he at least kept the electricity on! And so what if under saddam he invaded iran and caused 1.2 million persians to die? it's not like we really care is it? And while we rae at it, so what if "arab country" created by the french and british occupy the kurds oil rich lands... We need to mind our own business, how dare we stop saddam from invading Kuwait. How dare we stop saddam from attacking arabia and israel. Get out of the arab world now. The best thing we could do is leave iraq at once and let the people of iraq fight it out...
I watch your show regularly, and I very much note that in the last few years it has improved greatly, with guests and quality of discussion. In particular, all four of your guests on March 19 were perhaps the very best yet in regard to discussion of the Iraqi invasion. Sinan Antoon and Ali Fadhil were impressive in their analysis and discussion of their native Iraq. Most Americans know very little about the culture and history of Iraq and other Arabic countries, and these two guests provided needed information. It would be well to have then return for further discussion. One wonders why other media outlets have not done the same, especially prior to the Iraqi invasion, 9/11, or even prior to the first war with Iraq.
i get it that there are many points of view about this war and that the majority seem to be politically motivated....which is unfortunate and not particularly helpful.....i live in vermont and can't really speak to the war but i do try to pay attention to what is being said by all sides and i found the perspectives and concerns presented by these guys to be real...true to their hearts...and if anybody listens to them....of possible help....thank you
Re: Guests Ali Fadhil, Sinan Antoon, 19 March 2008 I am a regular (TIVO) viewer of the Charlie Rose show, and write to commend you on this, your best and possibly most uniquely important interview ever. I fully agree with the preceding comments by other viewers who have also thanked you so profusely for bringing US the important and honest views of these two young and eloquent Iraqis. Few other programs, even yours, have been so enlightening. Clearly your guests were presenting observations and conclusions based on their own life experiences in an Iraqi society that was strongly shaped by decades of American foreign policy influences. These two guests were also particularly effective, I think, because they were so refreshingly direct and ingenuous.
Sinan Antoon opened my eyes, if not only reminding me, [that\ yes, we did "bomb Iraq back to the stone age" in '91, and then subsequently added insult to injury. Foresight then would have played to the benefit of the Iraqis, but such foresight seems impossible amidst a political culture which kills first and asks questions later. And to think all President Bush really wanted was the end of the "welfare" state. But whatever, he is an "idle" dreamer. These fascists confused power with democracy, which required mangling the latter into an ideology. (Ideologies are static solutions trying to fix dynamic problems; they don't work.)
Please have Ali and Sinan back on your show for a longer period of time. We need to hear from more Iraqi people in order to get a true balanced opinion on what is really happening to the citizens on Iraq.
I am a devoted listener, thanks to your program being repeated at noon the following day on KQED. I think your program is probably the finest thing on television. Its consistent quality and depth is amazing. This is my first comment after years of watching. I am moved to send it by the appearance of your two Iraqi guests on March 19. Both were outstanding. Their comments rang with truth. I've never seen anything else that was as frank and urgent about the Iraq situation. Les Gelb was good also, as were your other guests on this program, but Ali and Sinan were so convincing and revealing. I hope you will have them both back soon--for the whole hour would be great.
I've never posted anything online before, but I had to convey my thanks and appreciation for having Ali and Sinan on your program. I would like to hear more from them and others like them. I cannot say enough about the importance of hearing their perspective as to what it's really like inside Iraq. I, too, wish we could see them on other media outlets. Charlie, I always feel like a more enlightened person after watching your program. Thank you for intelligent, dignified, conversation on a vast variety of topics.
It's www.democracynow.org
If you want to see more of Sinan Antoon: Go To Democracynow.com and type in his name. You will see an interview from July 6 2007. He says many more interesting things in this more open media
To Kathleen, I have seen other programs that have been cut sharply. I believe one was the 2007 interview with Alan Alda. Charlie have you run out of guests or topics to discuss? I see you changed tonight's program again, Please, please show your interview with David McCullough tomorrow, since you list it on your home page. Charlie, since your left eye is so noticeable, do you have a sty or cyst on your right eyelid? Could be poor make up, but there appears to be a problem. Take care
Thank you! What a concept. Bringing on Iraqis to talk about Iraq instead of the so-called experts who've never been to Iraq and have been wrong since the invasion. Please continue bringing on these voices. I've heard Sinan Antoon's poetry. Absolutely beautiful. Invite him back for the entire hour. Here's one of this most beautiful pieces of writing. http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/634/bo1.htm
Thank you very much for inviting Dr. Antoon to speak on your show. He provided intelligent, articulate, and analytically sound comments at a time when mainstream US media continues to censor these voices. Please invite him back and give him the full program to talk.
Happy to read the above comments. I, too, thought it was so refreshing to hear the truth from intelligent Iraqi young men who actually know alot more about their former country then does Charlie or most people in our state department, administration,media, etc. Everything they were saying rang totally true. Even though Charlie tried to get some good reason from them why the US 'should be there' they answered honestly and it rang so true that it finally seemed to resonate with Charlie at last! Charlie Rose is one of my heros but he always annoys me when he tries to justify this horrible Iraqi mistake. And don't get me wrong, folks....I Love America!
Thank you so very much for having Sinan and Ali on your program. How refreshing to finally hear the truth about Iraq! Thanks to both of them for sharing the truth. Please bring them back to your show and spend a full hour with them. Thanks to you for having the courage to allow them to share the truth.
It is considered whacky to mention the idea of "war for oil" , and the guest even apologized to CR as he said it. It is obvious though, considering that all infrastructure is in shambles except for the oil facilities. [and these guys KNOW - they were there\. As for Charlie butting in, that is just his style... Polite guests wait for Charlie to finish speaking, then begin, and OOPS, Charlie had more to say. It is like that skit in the Borat movie.
oh and I would love to hear Sami Rasouli speak on your show as well :)
Thank you, thank you, thank you Mr. Rose for having Mr. Fadhil and Mr. Antoon on your show today. It was one of the few times since the war started that I have heard someone talk about the IRAQIS and what the IRAQIS have had to endure during these 5 years of maddening injustice. They were frank and honest and shed so much light on what is really going on in Iraq. If only Mr. Antoon was allowed to speak on all the news networks. PLEASE have them on again!!! Thanks again.
YES, THANK YOU for Wednesday night! Ali & Sinan were excellent messengers - we are so hungry to hear Iraqi voices - here in Minneapolis, Sami Rasouli spoke just hours before we tuned into your program & said exactly the same thing - they just want us OUT! Listen to them! I am a documentary filmmaker & editor - I wonder if those "cutoffs" that seemed so rude were actually cuts an video editor had to make to shorten the show? - you were trying to do too many guests last night. We forgive, but PLEASE PLEASE bring Ali & Sinan back again for a whole show - and let them talk on a bit - it would've killed me to make those cuts - sometimes it's necessary but it is the job of a timekeeper, not a thinking citizen. Take your cues from Barak Obama - American citizens WANT to be opened up to what can heal and atone รข?? in this case, for the horrible things this war has perpetrated and allowed in our names...two things regular citizens are already noticing and feeling: our failing economy and hatred towards us in the eyes of those we visit in foreign countries - but that collateral damage is nothing compared to what we have done to Iraq and Iraqis. We need to listen...thank you, Kathleen Laughlin PS- below is info about Sami who might also be a good guest... Sami Rasouli is an Iraqi-American who has spent the last three years living in the city of Najaf, Irag and traveling throughout Iraq in his work with Muslim Peacemaker Teams. Sami, who lived for many years in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area before going back to live in Iraq, will talk about "the surge" and the U.S. military occupation, his work for peace and national reconciliation, and the humanitarian needs of the people of Iraq. He will also share stories of the people he has met and give a first-hand account of conditions in Iraq today
Mr. Rose, you are the master of good interview/conversation. I think your two guests have finally vindicated Sen. Obama's belief that America needs to leave Iraq immediately. Oh my, What a revelation that was! For reasons I cannot understand you cut the interview short, both guys agreed that America needs to leave Iraq despite their differeces on how things should be. Iraq has never been stable since it has become a country for the last 100 years. Iraq or any of the Arab world always live with a certain livable equilibrium maintained constantly, every once and a while things go to one side but with buyouts and clever political maneuvering they were brought back to that existing equilibrium. That has always been the way Arabs live throughout history. It is within their blood to revolt against ethnicity and clan domination within the same ethnicity. You have seen Sadam Hussen's clan, they are Sunnis but their sub-clan is Al-Tikriti and all the benefits go to Al-Tikritis first followed by the rest of Sunnis, then at last to favorable Shiites and so on. Such way of dealing comes along their traditional and cultural value plus their way of life. I am not saying it is a bad thing, I am just saying that is the way Arabs live. To the credit of Sen. Obama, the two gentlemen have stated unequivocally the US need to leave and the Iraqis will fill the gap. What American Generals are trying to do is something they never had before, stability on the basis of Democracy; even their culture does not understand that notion of equal distribution. The US had prior knowledge that Iraqis way of living is maintained by a very weak bond(thread), which bends either way and is maintained thru clan bribes and buyouts. The US should leave and let the Iraqis buy each other out. At the end of the day we make a deal with the winner coming out of top.
Mr. Rose, Having Mr. Sinan Antoon on your show was courageous. Thank you. I have served four tours in Iraq. Please consider having Mr. Sinan again at your table and allowing him to speak freely. Our policy makers and the American people needs to listen and learn. thank you again michel
It was refreshing to hear Sinan Antoon on the program, though as some of the other comments have noted, I found that Charlie was excessively defensive. I would have liked to listen to more of what Antoon had to say, without Charlie's interruptions or Fadhil's additions. Invite him back please!
To Sara, What are they doing here? They are teaching educating people who think they are against the war like you but have no idea what the realities are. Without people like them (professors and journalists) all you would here is the total fiction from the white house and main stream media. Learn to listen Sara
Ali and Sinan provided the American people with much needed insight into the "real' situation in their country, Iraq. I have worked in the Middle East, including several projects in Iraq, for 35 years and I have many associates and friends there. For the first time since this terrible mistake started, the views I heard last night parallel those I frequently hear from the friends I have left in every part of the Arab world. To accept the spin offered again and again by Bush, Chaney et al is akin to accepting Jim Jones' urgings to drink the coolaid! Please, more interviews with guests like Ali and Sinan.
I have never commented here before and am so encouraged to read the other comments here about Ali and Sinan. They provided us with a proper history lesson, indicted us about the results of our invasion, and told us what the Iraqi people really want: the US to just leave. Charlie, have more real people who know what is happening on the ground in Iraq than Green Zone armchair journalists and Beltway pundits. Thanks for the show.
Hi Charlie, I enjoyed your show last night with Sinan and Ali. It was very interesting to hear their points of view as I think they are pretty right on about this dismal war and how Iraqis feel about it. I wasn't however pleased with your handling of Sinan. You cam across as defensive and nasty (just like someone in the White House). First time I've seen you so unobjective and hostile. It doesn't suit you at all! Sorry about your eye though.
Although I did not agree with the Iraq invasion (and do not agree with our continued presence there), I was not impressed with the whining of two able-bodied Iraqis who blame the U.S. for the pre- and post-Sadam problems of their country while they avail themselves of our freedoms. What are they doing here? And why are they not in Iraq?
Your guests Ali and Sinan were excellent, very open minded and sincere. And that is exaclty what the American public needs to hear. The truth about a war based on lies and personal interests. A war that has destroyed a country. Please continue inviting guests that can comment on the facts as they are. Thank you and I hope your eye gets better soon.
Thank you for the informative show featuring Mr. Fadhil and Mr. Antoon. It is important for Americans to hear the views of native born Iraqi citizens who have witnessed the aftermath of the Iraq invasion. Sadly, our media rarely delivers this perspective. Please invite similar guests in the future.
I must applaud you for your program on Iraq last evening (3/19/08). It was refreshing to hear voices from the Iraq perspective, so missing in the spin of the news receive here. Thanks for your work. I only wish I didn't have to stay up until 1:00am to view your program on my PBS station.
Yes, this was probably the most informative segment on the Iraq quagmire to date. I do wonder why tho, Charlie, you insist on questioning the objectors to this unwarranted invasion as to what they would have done about Saddam or how they would have run the occupation differently. Please Charlie, you must accept that they did and do object to the interference in their country of a foreign military invasion. Why would they have some 'plan' to explain to you on the premise that this 'war' was 'necessary'? You are smarter than this Charlie. Stop forcing your guests to waste their time setting you straight. Thanks.
I was glad to hear Fadhil and Antoon's views on the reality of Iraq. It was very informative. Please, invite them again to expand the discussion with more time. Antoon was right on point. American foreign policy has much to learn on few of his comments. For example: You cannot destroy the fabric of a society and then expect to be received as a liberator; and :let Iraquis solve the iraqui problem. And as the invasion was a hugh mistake, so was the bombing by Bush 41st. And please, Charlie, let Antoon speak without interruption. You seemed a bit uncomfortable. Thanks.
"I don't care how little your country is, you got a right to run it like you want to. When the big nations quit meddling, then the world will have peace." - Will Rogers Thanks for giving us the views of the "little guys" - aka the Iraqi people; It speaks volumes more than the meddling folks can?
I appreciate your having Ali and Sinan give us their views. Please continue to give us the REAL views of REAL Iraqis. THanks so much.
These guys are good. Perspective. Exposed our arrogance and hypocrisy. Oil trumping infrastructure. TOLD US TO GET OUT! SOME OF OUR POLICIES WERE THE SAME AS SADAMS. WHAT AN INDICTMENT.