Charlie Rose Science Series
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Hot, Flat, and Crowded: Why We Need a Green Revolution--and How It Can Renew America
by Thomas L. Friedman
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by Thomas L. Friedman
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05/30/2007
Paul Wolfowitz
A conversation with Paul Wolfowitz
Keywords:
A conversation with Paul Wolfowitz. As Deputy Secretary of Defense was one of the architects of the Iraq war. In 2005 he was appointed
President of the World Bank, and recently stepped down amid controversy over Shaha Riza. He discusses his time at the World Bank, the controversy leading to his departure, and the challenges faced by the bank's next president.
DVD
Charlie Rose DVDs on Amazon.
Charlie Rose DVDs on Amazon.
Audio
Audio available through Audible.com.
Audio available through Audible.com.
Transcripts
Transcripts available through Voxant.
Transcripts available through Voxant.
Mr wolfowitz was one of the architects of the war in Iraq. I never liked his arrogance & his threatening France " They will pay", how ignorant. Mr Wolfowitz is a con man & when he talked about African dictators not caring for their people, i do not believe him because he does not care for the American people , the war in Iraq was about oil and greed and the French were right all along , Mr wolfowitz & other politicians knew that the French were right but could not handle being challenged. This war in iraq is a disaster and even today on august 20 2008, nothing has really changed in Iraq even though the US government and the media that works for the government tell us that we are wining!.
Itâ??s too bad Charlie Rose didnâ??t drill down during his conversation with Paul Wolfowitz on the areas where he has been truly destructive in the World Bank. Why did he force through a lending program of over one billion to Iraq when there is no possibility of the Bank fulfilling its fiduciary responsibilities -- on-site inspection of projects financed and confirmation that procurement and disbursement procedures have not been violated. Bank staff, of course, cannot visit a country in the midst of war. Everything is done through local contractors, who cannot even identify themselves as being affiliated with the Bank for fear of being killed. It is hard to believe the hypocrisy of Wolfowitzâ?? claims to success in mitigating corruption in Africa, when he has so highly politicized an organization that is supposed to be apolitical and set it up for enormous fiduciary risks to boot. Is he even remotely aware of the outrage and anger he has engendered throughout the organization by his personal behaviour (the Riza affair) and unprecedented political interference in the day to day operations. I sincerely hope that when Charlie Rose interviews him again, he will ask the hard questions
The Iraq issue demands attention, but as far at the terms of this interview, a good start in addressing corruption would be to serve as exemplar and not a hypocrite. Corruption is gaming the system for personal gain. How is that different than what Wolfowitz did at the World Bank? Violating institutional staff rules for the personal gain of a companion, implicating others by forced compliance with the cover up, lying about his personal role in the matter, and threatening retribution to those who question these abuses. The World Bank Board of Govenors' Ad Hoc Committee reports contain mountains of evidence of malfeasance, however Wolfowitz tries to spin it. http://intresources.worldbank.org/INTERCOMM/Resources/Report_ad_hoc.pdf http://intresources.worldbank.org/INTERCOMM/Resources/From_EXT.pdf http://intresources.worldbank.org/INTERCOMM/Resources/Ethics_Committee_Case_No2_President_Paper.pdf
This interview quickly put me to sleep though I did wake up for its last 20 minutes. The question I would have liked asked was Mr Wolfowitz: do you feel you continued Wolfensohn's work or changed it? Wolfensohn had started to take Sir Nick Stern's call to heart that 50 years of global-down development economics has stoked many transparency crises and hasn't helped most of Africa, http://info.worldbank.org/etools/docs/library/138945/Transcript%20Stern%20042705.doc and it is time for the transformatinal approach of empowerment. Where Wolfowitz stood on that would have interested those of us who love Africa's child http://kibera.tv http://africanidol.tv http://cidaworld.tv
Charlie Rose, how could you let it slide when Wolfowitz claimed credit for HELPING the filipino people get rid of Marcos? This statement alone proves more about this guy than anything in the past 10 years
I did not watch the show, because I have no interest in listening to Wolfowitz's inevitable spin. Perhaps a quote from Maureen Dowd's column of 5/20/2007 says it all. "Having Wolfie back on the job market is a tremendous opportunity. What do we want destroyed next? Could this walking curse on the world run Halliburton into the ground?"
I too stayed up to watch the interview which aired at 1140pm in St. Louis. At first, I was angry at Charlie for giving Wolfowitz the air time as if he deserves to heard. But now I'm glad I watched it because it convinced me that an ego can be so out of control, so dominating of a person's thoughts and actions, that another human being, right here on earth like I am, can live in such a created place that has no root in truth, reality, compassion, or honor, that he is unreachable. As I watched, I thought of how horrified most of were when we saw the Abu Gharib pictures, how much rage and frustration we feel when we see an honest documentary about wounded 19, 20, 21, 35, 55, year old soldiers who are maimed for life and not cared for, how heartbreaking it is to see Iraqi's holding their lifeless loved ones after our bombs, ----and then there is Wolfowitz, who thinks he doesn't like using force, that a few mistakes were made, of course, but not bad enough for him to even talk about, it's another created environment, that's comfortable for him, but has no basis in reality. A Pity. A Tragedy.
he's not shifty-eyed, he's tired. and he's not arrogant, just because you don't like him. most of you who are criticizing and gloating now, are probably the same people who were protesting the world bank for it's corruption not so long ago. now all of a sudden, the bank is morally righteous in your view, because the person who actually tried to change it is someone whom you already decided you hate? try not to let your previous biases cloud your ability to think rationally. the frequent result is self-righteous hypocricy.
Thank you, Charlie Rose, for your forceful and clear thinking in your interview with Paul Wolfowitz. Rarely have I ever seen such skill in interviewing. Wolfowitz accepts no responsibility or accountability for any of the horrendous mistakes he has made, but you, Charlie, did not let him off the hook. Congratulations.
Looking back to Minute 13 of Charlie Rose episode 07/20/1998: Dr. Wolfowitz says â??some of the people [in the CIA\ making the assessments donâ??t know everything they ought to know to make those assessments â?¦ ie, â??compartmentationâ?? â?¦ something that Director Tenet is going to work on. Then Wolfowitz follows up with â??we tried to be imaginative â?¦ about [intelligence\ we havenâ??t penetratedâ??. Charlie Rose responds alarmed that CIA Director Tenet and President Clinton aren't getting the message that Don Rumsfeld and Dr. Wolfowitz are pushing with the rhetorical question: â??Your intelligence is at odds with the CIA?â?? ... to which Donald Rumsfeld responds unequivocally: â??Yesâ??. Question for Charlie: why did you not question Dr. Wolfowitz and Don Rumsfeld about their creative accounting?
Charlie - Well done! The people complaining about your hour with Paul Wolfowitz are missing the point. This was a very important interview. Your persistent graciousness allowed Wolfowitz to be seen for who he is. It was good for the country to be able to observe just how deception, dishonesty and deviousness submit themselves for approval. His appearance didn't call for an hour of flogging by an histrionic host. What was required was what you gave - an opportunity for him to reveal, to those who cared to see the, the manner in which arrogance presumes to admire itself - and delude itself that it isn't recognized for just what it is. What a pitiful man.
The one good thing that came out of the PW debacle was that it once again drew attention to the bureaucratic, old-boy, revolving door system of the Bank. Mind you, nothing would be done to change it. Toegther with the WTO and IMF it will continue to, albeit inadvertently, maintain corrupt regimes in power through their naive policies, while the very people they are supposedly there to help become poorer and more caught up in the globalization quagmire of the new robber barons. And who said it was only Americans who headed the Bank. Wolfonson, Wolfowitz, Zoellick ? see the trend? It is time Charlie interviewed people with substance who make a real difference towards solving the problems of the world.
You gave Paul Wolfowitz an hour to rehabilitate himself? He has caused death & destruction to so many. And refuses to accept ANY responsibility for his decisions. He failed at the WB because he was arrogant & listened to no one other than his imported "yes men." He arranged a job for his paramour - with built in bonus / raises. At the US State Dept. she was paid more than the Secretary of State & supervised by Dick Cheney's daughter? Oh please, It reeks of nepotism & corruption. Mr Wolfowitz claims to be a student of Leo Strauss. Dr Strauss is still spinning in his grave.
The "artful dodger" when it comes to answering questions.
Charlie - do you really not know why the U.S. is so disliked and has been for a lot longer than the Iraq War [a "war" against a someone that has no army, airforce or navy I might add\? Do you live in a house? If your neighbour climbs over your fence and plays in your back yard would you accept it? I think that is the biggest sin - sin number 1. Then when they get in your back yard they don't play nice - not at all nice! Forget all the other sins the U.S. has committed - forget how warlike and aggressive they are and always have been [they have attacked Canada 3 times which certainly gives a lot of Canadians pause\ - how dirty they fight - how unfair their trade practices are - how they don't give a damn about their citizens not having health care let alone about Aids in Africa [they think they give a lot when they actually give very little - and most resent it mightily\. How their way is the only right way. How they bomb our soldiers while we never seem to make a mistake and bomb their soldiers. How they often act so superior and obnoxious when they travel - I've travelled - I've seen it and it is ugly! There are many other sins as we all know. I know I am generalizing here but this is the way I see it. Americans have/or had a lot of potential - they are very likeable although rather superficial. They are hard workers, generous and openhearted. However, they are brainwashed. They put their hands over their hearts and listen to that B.S. about American being the Greatest [they are the most powerful but they sure as aren't the greatest!\ and they actually believe it!! Despite all the evidence which really culminates on all those locks on all those doors and all those jails full of people. A man in Greece told me they reminded him of the Germans before World War 2 [that was in 1990\. They forget they are a young country with a lot to learn. To anybody but an American it is so easy to see why they are disliked and not trusted. Try an step outside yourself and your surroundings Charlie! You are a good guy and I enjoy your show and especially enjoy watching the video on my computer. Thanks.
"We have the wrong Africans talking to the wrong Chinese about the wrong projects." "Names please Mr. Wolfowitz?" Should have been Mr. Rose question after this exchange. Pity nobody ever does.
What a strange and complex character! Idealistic, Frankly na�¯ve, like a student who wants to change the World (that's good before thirty), humanist, convince of his own moral and mental superiority to the point of contempt for other's point of view, alone against all, brilliant, unapologetic of his obvious gross mistakes, trying to prove he is a good person as if this was the point, absolutist in his vision of the Truth, rewriting his own part in the history of the war in Iraq, shifting his views to fit his self-esteem, living in his own world, seeing himself as a victim ... It seems that intelligence and good intentions do not make maturity.
Completely and utterly frustrating. Revisionist history without accountability. He's a war criminal and should go on Larry King and catch softballs.
Thank you Charlie, for being persistent with this shifty-eyed character, Wolfowitz (He must have been reading from cue cards because he always shifted his eyes to the same place.) Like so many other "characters" that this administration sticks into the spotlight of the world as representatives of the U.S., Wolfowitz seems to have no ability to admit a mistake, and frankly, no conscience. He is an embarrassment, I think, and has, like the rest of this administration, absolutely no credibility--only an propensity to put a positive spin on most everything, no matter how terrible. We must find a way to keep people like this from being in leadership positions.
Here in Oregon the show is at 12:00 AM, and I doubt that any uninformed people are watching at this hour. Why do all of the neonservative ideologues think that there is an audience for political spin and misrepresentation for the facts. Everybody who has read the PNAC agenda and their plans for control of the whole Middle East are amazed at the Ludicrous lack of accountability and the lack of admission of facts that speak for themselves. This was an interview of sorts, but Wolfie changed the subject to Africa or other third world countries every time he was asked anything about Iraq. In my opinion he made himself look very guilty, not only about the loss of his position, but also about his involvement in Iraq.
It is very obvious to me that the negative coments about the past head of the World Bank were edited. I was stuned by the rude behavior of Rose and amazed by the this man's effort to explain that corruption is the killer of governments and his effort to put the skids on those African leader who care nothing for their people and make themselves rich with World Bank money. Charlie was more interested in defending the poor media for its reporting of the insident of replacement rather than listening to "corruption kills governments". Look at our own government--as a citizen I am very fearful of the agenda of MOST of our elected officials. Clinton-Iraq whatever, Africa needs to be brought into the world family and this man was trying to do this. His job was NOT Iraq. Shut up Charlie and let the man talk-stop your butting in to support the media and it's half truths and biased retoric. Eva Shaw, Atlanta, Georgia
As an African, who grew up and lived in Africa, I am stunned by the arrogance and ignorance of Mr. Wolfowitz when it comes to Africa. To me, his comments on Africa show how clueless was about the continent prior to arriving at the Bank. There were many people who worked on Africa and achieved results well before Wolfowitz came to the Bank! The implict idea that he did something productive to help Africa in the 2 years that he was at the Bank is absolute absurd and totally arrogant. He is insulting not only African leaders but also development professionals in and out of the Bank. Even more bothersome is his very paternalistic attitude towards Africans and development more broadly. This is unbealievable! In which planet does Wolfowitz live in? I have lost the little respect I ahd for him.
I was very disappointed that Mr. Wolfowitz was not questioned about Iraq, and I am surprised that Charlie Rose would indulgence such personal arrogance. I would expect that an architect of an event in the history of our nation as important as Iraq would not be permitted a pass on this subject.
I regret that Mr. Rose agreed to Mr. Wolfowitz's terms that this discussion be simply about his work at the World Bank. This is like landing an interview with Benito Mussolini and agreeing to only discuss Italian food. While I certainly don't blame Mr. Wolfowitz for wanting to distance himself from the disaster that has become of our Iraq policy, his term of leadership at the WB cannot be isolated from his bad ideas and strategies that have turned our country's image on the world stage as one of a colossal rogue state. Because of his push in Iraq for the neocon world view, his designation to the WB post added insult to injury to begin with. His failures at the DOD and the WB can only be attributed to the Iraq disaster. In the future, if he wants an hour on national television, I hope he's forced to talk about it.
I couldn't stomach enough of it to get at "best part"; I came in on wolfie bashing Clinton for something he, Clinton, already owned up to regarding his inaction in Rwanda, while being totally unable to acknowledge responsibility for his own part in causing the fiasco in Iraq.
Charlie...You were too easy on Wolfowitz. To make amends...the transcript of the interview must be placed in the NYT or New Yorker and torn apart by Bill Mahar or his ilk. Or...do it on your show. Yours, Cliff
Charlie... Charlie.. Charlie did anyone think having Paul Wolfowitz on would do anything but, to quote Jerry Seinfeld, "release the hounds". Whatever he did or did not do prior to the World Bank is no reason to crucify him for his work at the bank. The use of the "ethics" issue as a club is reminiscent of the nazis i.e., no matter the lie if you say it lound enough and long enough it becomes the truth. Let us hope the entrenched bureaucracy at the world bank won't react this way to the next president if he has the audacity to propose a more effective disbursement of funds.
did anyone else notice the best part of this interview?... Wolfowitz: no one likes to use force- I dont like to use force Rose (interupting): you dont like to use force? Priceless. wolfowitz is a dirty rat, I think everyone could notice that.
A new verb: to Wolfowitz - create a disaster and feign innocence.
Thanks for not letting Paul Wolfowitz off the hook. Unfortunately for him, he did not--and constitutionally could not--acquit himself well: He is shifty-eyed and can barely contain his arrogance. It's obvious that the World Bank and the world have little tolerance for "neocons," who have imposed their extremism on the rest of us--at staggering cost. And, frustratingly, the "neocons" lack insight into the destruction they inevitably wreak. Can it be that he was referring to the Iraq War when he said how especially tough it is to go to war "when you have to"? The aphorism, "One can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" comes to mind.
It was like watching any common criminal rush by and slough off the issues of their crime. It was like watching a white patrician OJ . . . except Wolfowitz has more death on his hands.
The Wolfowitz interview was one of the most frustrating interviews I have ever watched. This man NEVER spoke the truth once. He NEVER answered any of Charlie's Iraq questions. We never got to the crux of his World Bank problems which was his need for POWER and his continued unilateral mode of operation. Once again this administration has shown the world an American bully that treats it with zero respect or equality. He should be in prison, and I could suggest a half dozen others that might be good choices to join him. And we have to ask why America is viewed with such disdain.
This paul wolfowitz should be in jail for what he did to this great Country of USA, he is one of the who made this Our country and it's beautiful people of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA the most hated in the world, and as always he gets away with it.
I wish to quote several sentences out of this interview. I am listening to it right now and it is still airing here on PBS Iowa Public Television. I am deeply involved with a citizens campaign to force local media to halt gross corrupton which has drained and diverted millions of sales tax funds voted for school repair into unstudied development. Despite two law suits, petitions to the State Auditor for audits of the school district, after years of frustrated appeals to the school board, we are still spending our own money and most of our time. While I am not a fan of Paul Wolfowitz, his sentences about corruption in third world contries apply directly to our problems in Des Moines, Iowa. Please advise how soon I can obtain a transcript via email.
Living in CA, I don't see your show until 12:30 AM - thanks to PBS in their attempt to limit viewing shows like yours. I hope you ask him some very tough questions about the Iraq war as he was one of the major architectors of this debacle. Did he not foresee the outcome of the occupation?? I thought these politicians had some brains but it appears they do things that are only politicallty expedient for their huge egos.
THIS should be revealing....in one way or the other. great timing that you could get this interview.....i'll be watching with much curiosity. i'm curious what went through his head when he was appointed to this huge agency mostly composed of people who had little or no respect for him after his designing of the iraq war. the whole thing with his "partner/girlfriend/etc is almost besides the larger point....